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  1. #21
    Dreadlord the0o's Avatar
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    The Nice thing about this game is that the lore is always changing. We have 3 very different Death Knight Generations over the years, Why cant we have a "new" Demon Hunter? A class that took to wearing mail with special enchants to protect them, forsakening the former fighting style for something new.

    Hell if i had the time i could come up with some nice new "Lore" about a group that wants to fight demons but refuse to follow illidan's ways, rewriting the Demon Hunter rule book, discovering new ways to wield fel energy.

    This group breaks into 3 Clans, One that teaches the "traditional" demon hunter style, using speed and precision strikes to drop the foe. Protecting themselves with blocks and heavy armor that does not impact their speed.

    A clan that uses fel based spells to empower their arrows, attacking from afar. this clan promotes using demon magic to kill the target and escape before being seen.

    A clan that binds his/her soul to a friendly target, taking the damage they would and healing them as if they were one.


    If i can come up with that on my lunch break, inbetween nursing notes, blizzard could do a thousand times better.

    "Humility defeats pride, Master Yang has preached. Pride defeats man"


  2. #22
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    They look cool. They have awesome looking weapons and attitudes. They're among the most popular classes in WoW. However, you're probably never going to see them appear in the game as a playable class. That's not to say that it's impossible, just HIGHLY unlikely. If Blizzard announces the Demon Hunter class at the next Blizzcon, I'll happily eat crow, and prepare to roll one late next year when the next expansion releases. However, until that unlikely event occurs, here's the 5 reasons you'll more than likely never see a Demon Hunter as a playable class in WoW.
    0: I recommend cayenne pepper and garlic with crow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    1.The Abilities

    Probably the biggest thing hampering the introduction of a Demon Hunter class is that its primary abilities have been farmed out to other classes. Rogues have Evasion, Priests had Mana Burn, and Warlocks have Immolation Aura, and Metamorphosis. Now keep this in mind, when Blizzard introduced the Monk class, they took the entire Brewmaster ability set and applied it to the new class. The same thing occurred when Blizzard introduced Death Knights in WotLK. This wouldn't be a problem if the Warlock and Rogue abilities weren't exactly like Demon Hunter abilities, but they are. Metamorphosis is exactly how you would picture the WC3 spell in WoW. Demonology locks even transform into Demons the way DHs would if they were in WoW.

    I really can't stress how important this point is. There's no way Blizzard is going to introduce the exact same mechanic for 2 classes. Also if they did, what would they give the DH that would be different from the Warlock? The Warlock has every conceivable ability that could exist from Metamorphosis. There's nothing more that can be created or taken from that ability to make it different for the DH. Now Blizzard could make DHs without Meta, but what would be the point? Meta was what made DHs amazing in the first place.

    BTW, I personally feel that Blizzard made a colossal misstep by giving Warlocks Metamorphosis and DA. I would have preferred a DH class utilizing those abilities. Now thanks to that move, we're more than likely never going to see DHs in this game. Nice move fellas...
    Death Knights had Abilities farmed out to Warlocks. Death Coil, Both classes use it. This is not a valid reason not to do something, it is just a challenge to make it work well.

    The truth is Rogues use evasion for PVP, Solo PVE and Avoidance in raids, Demon Hunters would use it to Tank. As for Metamorphosis, Both Demonology and Demon Hunters would use this, however the Warlock version makes you look like a Shadow clone of illidan, while the Demon Hunter would use it differently, and might have very different visual effects.


    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    2.Gameplay

    Another issue is how DH gameplay would work over three specs. DHs have a pretty uniform style of play. Its so uniform that going outside of that means that you're not really playing a DH anymore. Death Knights also had this issue. To compensate, Blizzard took abilities and concepts from every undead hero and fused them into the DK class. Blood came largely from the Dreadlord, Frost came from the Lich, and obviously UH came from the Death Knight. It all made sense because the Undead/Scourge all came from the same general source of power, so it was conceivable that the Death Knight could legitimately pull from all of those sources and make a varied style of gameplay.

    But what about Demon Hunters? I mean yeah, you have the WC3 hero with its four abilities (which are already used by other classes), but what else can you do with it? The Night Elf heroes and units don't really go well with the Demon Hunter concept, and most of those abilities are taken by other classes. How are you going to take that narrow style of gameplay and split it into three distinct specs without significant overlap? Worse, how are you going to avoid making it feel like a do-over of Rogues?
    It seems clear to me that the Demon Hunter would be a Mail wearing class with a Melee tank Spec, a Melee DPS spec and a Range Caster Spec. In fact what ever class they do will be mail wearing Tank/Melee DPS/Range Caster it just happens that Demon Hunters can work as this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    3. Class Balance

    Though not as major as the first two, this is another problem with bringing DHs into WoW. DKs and Monks fit relatively well with the game's structure. DKs took the third spot for plate, and Monks took up the third spot for leather. Monks even gave some competition with Druids for INT Leather. Both classes also came in as hybrids, giving the game new opportunities to tank or heal. Both also came in as melee classes. Thankfully both classes were hybrids so players could spec into either tanking or healing if a raid or group needed something besides DPS.

    DHs present an interesting dilemma in that regard; They would be melee, and they would more than likely have to wear leather. Granted, they could wear mail, but that clashes strongly with the class' lore. Currently, Mail is the last armor type that doesn't have three classes going for it. Mail is semi-heavy armor. Demon Hunters don't wear heavy armor. In fact, Demon Hunters barely wear any armor at all. At best they would wear leather or cloth. Anyone willing to believe that we're getting yet another leather wearing, agility-based, melee class? Didn't think so.
    Only the Original Demon Hunters wore cloth, Just like Necromancers wore cloth, but Death Knight have a Necromancer spec, Unholy. The name placed on gear type is no longer an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    4.The Illidan problem

    Let's be honest; People want to play Demon Hunters so that they can look like Illidan Stormrage. He's probably the coolest and most iconic character in Warcraft. People want to run around with those wings, blindfolds, and Warglaives. People want those runes over their body, and they want to wreck stuff the way he wrecks stuff. So how would this work in-game? Probably not too well. If you introduce Demon Hunters, you're going to see a surge of Night Elf male characters popping up all over the place. None of them are going to want to use regular swords or staffs, or whatever else DHs could potentially use. They would all want the Blades of Azzinoth on their backs, and anyone without those blades would be considered a noob. Would they want to wear helmets, shoulders, cloaks, and chest gear? Nope. They'd run around shirtless just like Illidan. They'll never want to raid because they couldn't look like Illidan while their raiding. You think Blizzard is going to create an entire item system just for DHs? I mean, they could, but I seriously doubt it.

    It'll be an utter and complete disaster.
    Let's be honest, if Demon Hunters come out they will be a Hero Class, they will start out in a phased version of Black Temple. the First thing they will get is Malfurion Stormrage going up to the grave of his brother, who was killed while in full demon power. Malfurion will raise his brother, and cleanse his demonic taint. Demons can always be raised from dead it's in the lore. And the most powerful Druid can do what he wants. There will be some dialog and Illidan will become the Master and commander of the Demon Hunter Class Faction, he will over see the training, but because they will no longer have the same amount of demon taint they will have to wear more than baggy pants. But that's OK, because of transmog and the president of female plate armor bikini's they can train up demon hunters to look as cool as they want.

    http://wowroleplaygear.com/wp-conten...ng-willow1.jpg
    http://wowroleplaygear.com/wp-conten.../Saltstone.jpg



    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    5.Better class options available

    Despite their insane popularity, DHs aren't the best class options for the game. Several classes would be a better fit for modern WoW, and offer more to the playerbase, and overall class balance. Tinkers, Spellbreakers, and Rangers are just a few examples. Obviously though, none of those classes have the same appeal as Demon Hunters do.

    Conclusion: Given the reasons above, I think its highly unlikely that we'll see a Demon Hunter class in WoW. Again, I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong, since Demon Hunters are one of my favorite heroes from WC3. In the end, if you want to play a Demon Hunter in WoW, you probably should roll a Warlock.

    The next and last class added to WOW will be mail wearing tanking, melee DPS, and possible caster. It will also be a final hero class. What it will be is anyone's guess, but Demon Hunters fill that fairly easily.

    Even though Demonology warlocks have a lot of the same feel as a Demon Hunter, I can not enter melee, I can not stealth and use evasion. I do not dual wield swords.

  3. #23
    Bloodsail Admiral DonQShot's Avatar
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    Okay that's enough of this madness lol.
    #1 metamorph in DH could be similar to a druid's shapeshifts and a DH's abilities would be based on arcane/fire and shadow, with a DH fast paced melee orientation. I see none of those being used by warlocks.
    #2 a melee tank spec based on a more disciplined DH. A melee dps based on the more berserk DH with a death wish. A ranged spec based on D3 but not literally.
    #3 Mail for DH is a good bet in every sense. Just give chest armour that does not cover the entire body so ppl can see the tatoos. and as I said above, DH can be a tank spec as well
    #4 This point is just you talking for other people...
    #5 DH's can bring uniqueness to the game as much as any of those you just mentioned. They would be devastating to pet classes for example.

  4. #24
    I've been beaten to it, but I'll still drop my 2 cents.

    1. The Abilities
    The four abilities available to the Pandaren Brewmaster in the RTS are not class wide for Monks. The first three are Brewmaster specific, and the last one (Storm, Earth, and Fire) is only now being added. Even if the abilities of the Demon Hunter in the RTS weren't currently in use by another class or mechanically unusable, surely you understand that they would still have to create abilities for the rest of the class, including the defining skills of the three different specs right? They'd have to make stuff up, just like they did with the Monk class. That shouldn't be too hard for them, they do this for a living after all.

    2. Gameplay
    They have the same 'uniform style of play' that the Pandaren Brewmaster had in the sense that it was specific. There was no Windwalker or Mistweaver playstyle for that hero, so this is a moot point. There was no Retribution playstyle for the Paladin, and there was no Blood or Frost playstyle for the Death Knight. Jaina didn't have Living Bomb, and Thrall didn't have Riptide. Your point that the Death Knight class drew the inspiration of its abilities from other sources effectively destroys your own argument better than anyone could. Though you go on to validly assert that the rest of the Night Elf line-up doesn't support doing this here, it's important to point out that the methods and magical prowess of the Demon Hunter inherently contrast that of the other Night Elves to begin with, such so that they are maligned and mistrusted by their own kin.

    It only seems narrow because it stands out.

    3. Class Balance
    In the same way that the skill-set of the Demon Hunter would need to be updated to even be a class, likewise its armory would also likely change. There would have to be a lore reason for the Demon Hunters returning as a playable class anyway, I'm sure it wouldn't be because they suddenly turned up after all this time. A new sect of Demon Hunters training in a different way, with a more complex array of melee weapons (possibly new ones, not just warglaives), and perhaps a different outlook about defending themselves via armor.

    Even failing that, is having another leather wearing class really that big of a deal? Hypothetically, let's assume that there were really good lore reasons, and really good mechanical designs in place for their skills. Would 'they wear leather, that's too many leather classes' really be a sufficient justification to turn all of that down? Just saying.

    4. The Illidan problem
    You lost me on this one, this seems like empty hyperbole to me. I'm sure you're right to an extent, that there is a certain image of a Demon Hunter that people are looking for, but I don't see how that's a problem or how it's even relevant to the discussion. Besides, I'm sure their first tier set would have a cool arcane tatoo for a chest piece or something. Transmogrification would allow them to achieve just about everything else.

    5. Better class options available
    This is probably the first one I agree with you on. The Tinker class in particular is what I'm rooting for.
    It would be nice to have that steam punk, engineering class that only Hunters come remotely close to, and just barely touch upon.

    6. Conclusion
    If the next expansion does turn out to be Legion centric, that will be the time for Demon Hunters to step forth. If they don't, then they probably never will. If they do, then great. They're not what I'm looking for, but I'm more okay with them than I am with Monks, which irk me to no end.
    Last edited by Elementalkin; 2013-01-23 at 06:35 PM.

  5. #25
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    WELCOME EVERYONE! To the Dokhidamo thread dissection for today. Now I'm a major proponent of adding more classes, because I feel they can be the most reliable source of new and fun content for players. So is the OP right? Is DH a pipe dream? Well let's find out...



    This is always my favorite part to debate when it comes to the DH, because players have a lot of misconceptions of what has to be a baseline skill and what can only be given to one class. There's two major examples I want to make clear first, then tie them into the OP's argument.

    1. Before WotLK, Warlocks had the ability Death Coil. It delt damage and feared the target. When the DK was introduced, people questioned how they would give it Death Coil when it was already given to Warlocks. Blizzard renamed the original DC to Mortal Coil and gave the DK Mortal Coil.
    Its important to note that Death Coil the Warlock ability functioned nothing like Death Coil the WC3 ability. Thus when DKs were brought into the game, it wasn't a huge issue since the two abilities functioned nothing alike in the first place.

    2. In WC3, Brewmasters had the ability Storm, Earth, and Fire. They also had Breath of Fire. When the hero was updated to being the Monk Class, neither of those abilities became baseline for the Monk. BoF went to Brewmaster, and SEF will be given to Windwalker in 5.2.
    That really has nothing to do with the point I made. WC3 Heroes are supposed to be advanced versions of WoW classes. So its not unlikely that a Monk like Chen Stormsout (sp?) would have abilities from all three Monk specs. That's quite a bit different than if Shaman had Storm Earth, and Fire, Warriors had Breath of Fire, and Hunters had Keg Smash, and then you try to bring in a Monk class with those same abilities.

    Now how does this relate to the Demon Hunter? Let's look at their 3 abilities from WC3.

    Evasion - This is by no means class-specific. Yes, rogues were given it, but all classes have dodge chances. This could be a good ability to give to Demon Hunter tanks. It could even be a passive boost to dodge chance instead of an active ability like Rogues.

    Mana Burn - This was removed in 5.0. There is no reason this cannot be given to the Demon Hunter. Plus, the fact it was removed is a good pointer that DH is possible.

    Immolation (Aura) - Easy to either change it's name or the name of the warlock aura.

    Metamorphosis - This is the big one people point to when they say DH won't happen. They assume the DH would have this ability baseline, and also assume it's only an option for one class. Let's face it, the Warlock ability was closest to it's source material in the MoP beta when it let them tank. Then Blizz nerfed it. Editing/removing the ability would have little negative impact on the Demonology spec. Giving it as a tanking mechanic for Demon Hunter would be much closer to the true source material than the mockery the Warlock turned it into. Remember, Warlock was once used as a reason the DK couldn't work as a class.
    Again, there's a pretty big difference between Death Coil and Metamorphosis. Metamorphosis is EXACTLY how WC3 Metamorphosis would behave in a WoW environment. It even uses the same demon model from WC3.

    I'm beginning to wonder if most of you even played WC3.

    So you make two major questions here. First, what specs can you make? Second, how can you make it different from the Rogue? I can do both right here off the top of my head.

    Demonic Fury - Melee DPS Spec - Specializes in dual wielding and aggressive attacks. Plays a lot like the fury warrior (use a rage-like mechanic) but with more utility (like a rogue). This is your traditional glaive-wielding Demon Hunter.

    Dark Ranger - Ranged DPS Spec - Finally a spec other than Hunters that uses ranged weapons. Plays a lot like the Diablo 3 Demon Hunter (people /do/ like it). But instead of traps, they use curses (almost like affliction). It sits about midway-leaning-SPriest between SPriest and Warlock on the DoT VS Direct Damage scale.

    Transfiguration - Tanking Spec - This is the spec you've all been waiting for, this is the metamorphasis spec. It has a lot of AoE abilities (aura-style, not place and forget style). Designed around using 2h weapons for powerful, but infrequent, attacks. This is a traditional "eat the damage" spec that makes up for not having a shield by having an increased chance to dodge.

    The only spec I mentioned with any relation to rogue was Demonic Fury, which suffers from the fact melee is generally very boring.
    That really isn't a Demon Hunter class from WC3. That is what we're talking about here. Not Diablo 3's Demon Hunter, a fury warrior in leather gear, or a tanking version of Dark Apotheosis from Warlocks.

    Your response pretty much proves my point.

    I'm going to take this one step at a time, as you raise a number of issues.

    Melee - As shown above, 2/3 specs could be melee. However, right now the game actually has more ranged classes than melee classes. So Blizz can add more melee and not inflate the ranks of the melee.

    Leather - Here is where I'm going to blow your mind. They can wear mail. In WC3 the Brewmaster wore cloth (their hat is the cloth hat model for leveling), now the Monk wears leather. There's decent justification. Now the Demon Hunter can wear mail because the justification is if you're going to fight a Legion on the offensive, having a bare chest is just silly. I mean Blizz can't make DH's unable to use chest armor, so already their "signature look" is ruined. Also, I don't consider mail to be heavy armor. If Hunters can make it work, it's not heavy.
    Um, I didn't say that mail was heavy, I said that it's semi-heavy. Its the second heaviest armor in the game after plate armor, and plate tanks wear mail armor up until level 40 when they can switch to plate. I'd say that's some pretty strong armor, wouldn't you? Cloth is like robes or a shirt. Leather is like wearing a leather jacket. Mail is like wearing chain mail. Its pretty heavy stuff.

    Since Demon Hunters barely wear armor, them wearing mail seems a bit weird doesn't it? This is why as a class, it simply doesn't work in modern WoW. Maybe before Monks and Warlocks getting Meta and DA, but not now.

    The fact that people rip off the lore is always always going to happen, and that's why I'm thankful Blizz doesn't make design decisions just on RP. In truth, the horror situation you describe will never happen.... except maybe on Moon Guard.
    However, you do raise a point with the glaives. The answer may be to just consider them as 1h swords, as Blizz already did with the warglaives, and then add in special animations for using them. And yes, that means their expansion would have a number of warglaive drops.

    And one other thing, these don't have to be Illidari Demon Hunters. I think the Black Harvest could be the starting point of seeding a new type of post-Illidan Demon Hunter.
    Again, if you have to completely remove yourself from the WC3 concept of Demon Hunters to make this class work, what's the point? Just make a new class and leave Demon Hunters alone. People don't want some half-arsed version of DHs, they want to be a version of Illidan Stormrage.

    Blizzard could of course just port the Diablo 3 version of DHs into the game, and it would actually work. However, we all know that that isn't the Demon Hunters that the WoW population is hoping for.

  6. #26
    Fluffy Kitten Taurenburger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathgoose View Post
    Do all DK's run around as Humans with the name xArthasx and refuse to use anything but the coolest 2H sword they can find that resembles Frostmorne?
    Yes. Yes, they do. *grins*

    Anyways, I'm sure there won't be a new class next expansion. If the next expansion'll be the Burning Legion then we won't see Demon Hunters as a class in the time wow has left. Demon Hunters are indeed themed for the Burning Legion and IF the next expansion is about these guys we won't see them a third time around.

  7. #27
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottsdaleHokie View Post
    I read this, fell out of my chair laughing, and didn't bother reading any further.

    You're kidding right? They homogenized the ever living crap out of classes. What's one more?
    All classes use different spells, and have different enough playstyle that anyone who says all classes are homogenzed might as well say that Zul'Gurub, Deadmines, Shadowfang Keep, Scholomance, and Scarlet Monastary were rehashes. (Hint- Zul'Aman was the closest thing to a true rehash in the entirety of Cataclysm. Everything else, new wine in old bottles)
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    None of those are valid points.
    How are points 1 and 2 not valid?

    They gave away all the Demon Hunter's abilities to other classes. Do you think they would remove Metamorphosis from Demonology? The amount of uproar from that... the S"!@ storm that would be caused by such action would be huge.

    Also - people wanting Warcraft Demon Hunters want something very specific - how are you going to split it into 3 specs? Melee DPS spec? K. Tank spec? Sure. Another melee DPS spec? Uhh...

    Take Rogues, for example - You have your basic fighting spec (COMBAT) and then you have your stealth spec (Assassination) and then you have your other stealth spec (Subtlety). The last two specs are very similar.

    Look at hunters - you have your pet spec (BM), you have your archer spec (MM) and then you have your... trap spec? (Surv). The last two are hardly differentiated at all.

    Demon hunters would have the same problem of having two viable options, but then having something bland? Why force an idea just to end up with mediocrity?

  9. #29
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elementalkin View Post
    I've been beaten to it, but I'll still drop my 2 cents.

    1. The Abilities
    The four abilities available to the Pandaren Brewmaster in the RTS are not class wide for Monks. The first three are Brewmaster specific, and the last one (Storm, Earth, and Fire) is only now being added. Even if the abilities of the Demon Hunter in the RTS weren't currently in use by another class or mechanically unusable, surely you understand that they would still have to create abilities for the rest of the class, including the defining skills of the three different specs right? They'd have to make stuff up, just like they did with the Monk class. That shouldn't be too hard for them, they do this for a living after all.
    Its important to note that the class is called Monks, not Brewmasters. Brewmaster is a spec within the Monk class. Also Monks as a class concept is much wider than Demon Hunters. I went over this in my original post. Apparently, Blizzard has chosen a broad class to place a Demon Hunter spec into, and its called Warlocks.

    2. Gameplay
    They have the same 'uniform style of play' that the Pandaren Brewmaster had in the sense that it was specific. There was no Windwalker or Mistweaver playstyle for that hero, so this is a moot point. There was no Retribution playstyle for the Paladin, and there was no Blood or Frost playstyle for the Death Knight. Jaina didn't have Living Bomb, and Thrall didn't have Riptide. Your point that the Death Knight class drew the inspiration of its abilities from other sources effectively destroys your own argument better than anyone could. Though you go on to validly assert that the rest of the Night Elf line-up doesn't support doing this here, it's important to point out that the methods and magical prowess of the Demon Hunter inherently contrast that of the other Night Elves to begin with, such so that they are maligned and mistrusted by their own kin.
    The problem with that argument is that Paladins, Monks, and Mages are broad class archetypes. Its pretty easy to expand on these archetypes and place notable WoW concepts into specific specs of those classes. Also there was even some spec differentiation within WC3 itself. Archmages could use Water Elementals and Blizzard, Blood Mages used Fire magic, and Sorcerers used Arcane. So when it came time to create the Mage WoW class, it was pretty easy to create the three specs. Demon Hunter doesn't work like that. It is a very specific archetype that is pretty unique to WoW. Any deviation from that concept, and you no longer have the Demon Hunter from WC3. Furthermore, a cornerstone of its mechanics is completely owned by another class.

    It only seems narrow because it stands out.
    No, its narrow because its narrow. Again, DKs had the benefit of being similar in general concept to the Scourge and the Undead. Demon Hunters don't even have that as an advantage.

    3. Class Balance
    In the same way that the skill-set of the Demon Hunter would need to be updated to even be a class, likewise its armory would also likely change. There would have to be a lore reason for the Demon Hunters returning as a playable class anyway, I'm sure it wouldn't be because they suddenly turned up after all this time. A new sect of Demon Hunters training in a different way, with a more complex array of melee weapons (possibly new ones, not just warglaives), and perhaps a different outlook about defending themselves via armor.

    Even failing that, is having another leather wearing class really that big of a deal? Hypothetically, let's assume that there were really good lore reasons, and really good mechanical designs in place for their skills. Would 'they wear leather, that's too many leather classes' really be a sufficient justification to turn all of that down? Just saying.
    Its a pretty big deal because the competition for agility leather is already intense. You throw in yet another agility leather wearer (one that would be extremely popular to boot), and all sorts of problems would erupt. Let's also not forget the sheer redundancy of adding yet another agility melee leather class to the game after the Monk class.

    4. The Illidan problem
    You lost me on this one, this seems like empty hyperbole to me. I'm sure you're right to an extent, that there is a certain image of a Demon Hunter that people are looking for, but I don't see how that's a problem or how it's even relevant to the discussion. Besides, I'm sure their first tier set would have a cool arcane tatoo for a chest piece or something. Transmogrification would allow them to achieve just about everything else.
    Well that was kind of my point; Everyone is going to want to look like Illidan. In WC3 that's not a problem, in an MMO, its a huge problem. Its definitely not game breaking, but I could see it as a hinderance to the class' implementation. Its a very narrow concept, and that problem ripples into other areas of the proposed class.

    5. Better class options available
    This is probably the first one I agree with you on. The Tinker class in particular is what I'm rooting for.
    It would be nice to have that steam punk, engineering class that only Hunters come remotely close to, and just barely touch upon.

    6. Conclusion
    If the next expansion does turn out to be Legion centric, that will be the time for Demon Hunters to step forth. If they don't, then they probably never will. If they do, then great. They're not what I'm looking for, but I'm more okay with them than I am with Monks, which irk me to no end.
    Well I agree that Tinkers would be the better option for implementation. They have a broad archetype to pull from, they fill a solid niche in terms of class balance, and they would truly be a very unique class in WoW.

    I guess we're just going to have to wait and see.

  10. #30
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    ... they want to be a version of Illidan Stormrage.

    Blizzard could of course just port the Diablo 3 version of DHs into the game, and it would actually work. However, we all know that that isn't the Demon Hunters that the WoW population is hoping for.
    Actually, because of D3, and only one class using guns/Bows/Cross Bows having demon hunters with a D3 style spec would be interesting.

    If I was Blizzard (ie pure guess work)

    A: Demon Hunters would come in with a Burning Legion focused Expansion, one that included a revamp of Outland, and additional worlds for leveling and end game content.

    B: Demon Hunters would be a hero class which gets out of their start zone at level 70.

    C: Demon Hunters would use a new phased version of the Black Temple as the start Area, they would cover a lot of Lore here. Including a defending the Black temple from Azeroths heroes. i.e. the other side of the raid.

    D: Demon Hunters would wear mail armor, but the class armor would always have the bare chest look.

    E: Demon Hunters could only use Bladed weapons, and possibly -see 4th spec

    F: Demon Hunters would have 4 specs (just like Druids)-

    - Dual wielding Titans grip Melee Tank Spec uses evasion and metamorphosis (unlike Warlocks, they would not change into the classic model, but would be closer to dark apotheosis in shadow)

    - Dual wielding (no titans grip) Melee would have stealth and cast melee spells this spec would feel a lot like rogues if rogues where melee casters.

    - Range caster, healing spec gives the feel of a warlock doing heals and drain abilities.

    - Titans grip range weapons only, they give up on melee weapons to use guns and crossbows in both hands or one weapon with bows, it would be tricky to balance but it would add the D3 demon hunter as a 4th spec. ie fan service.

    G: Demon Hunters could be any race which was in the Burning Crusade. The real question is were there any worgens in BC? even if we didn't see them.

  11. #31
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurenburger View Post
    Yes. Yes, they do. *grins*

    Anyways, I'm sure there won't be a new class next expansion. If the next expansion'll be the Burning Legion then we won't see Demon Hunters as a class in the time wow has left. Demon Hunters are indeed themed for the Burning Legion and IF the next expansion is about these guys we won't see them a third time around.
    I'll take that in two parts.

    First, you're right a lot of DKs are Arthas ripoffs. The good news is most of them suck. The OP is saying anyone who isn't an Illidan DH would suck, and those that are would be best. That's not true.


    As for your second part, I also disagree. What Blizz showed us with MoP is that the old "race-class-race-class" cycle is not a cycle at all. They can add races, and classes, at the same time. And now that they've shown they know how to balance a class, players may be more open to seeing a new class revealed at Blizzcon 2013.
    Sometimes I think I should have rolled a Priest....


  12. #32
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Actually, because of D3, and only one class using guns/Bows/Cross Bows having demon hunters with a D3 style spec would be interesting.

    If I was Blizzard (ie pure guess work)

    A: Demon Hunters would come in with a Burning Legion focused Expansion, one that included a revamp of Outland, and additional worlds for leveling and end game content.

    B: Demon Hunters would be a hero class which gets out of their start zone at level 70.

    C: Demon Hunters would use a new phased version of the Black Temple as the start Area, they would cover a lot of Lore here. Including a defending the Black temple from Azeroths heroes. i.e. the other side of the raid.

    D: Demon Hunters would wear mail armor, but the class armor would always have the bare chest look.

    E: Demon Hunters could only use Bladed weapons, and possibly -see 4th spec

    F: Demon Hunters would have 4 specs (just like Druids)-

    - Dual wielding Titans grip Melee Tank Spec uses evasion and metamorphosis (unlike Warlocks, they would not change into the classic model, but would be closer to dark apotheosis in shadow)

    - Dual wielding (no titans grip) Melee would have stealth and cast melee spells this spec would feel a lot like rogues if rogues where melee casters.

    - Range caster, healing spec gives the feel of a warlock doing heals and drain abilities.

    - Titans grip range weapons only, they give up on melee weapons to use guns and crossbows in both hands or one weapon with bows, it would be tricky to balance but it would add the D3 demon hunter as a 4th spec. ie fan service.

    G: Demon Hunters could be any race which was in the Burning Crusade. The real question is were there any worgens in BC? even if we didn't see them.
    Okay, so given all of that, which seems more likely to be implemented; All of that you posted above, or simply giving Warlocks a melee 4th spec called Demon Hunter?

    If Demon Hunters could be playable, that's the only way I see it being possible. They seem to be heading in that direction anyway. It also makes a lot more sense than the responses I've seen so far in this thread. Warlocks wear cloth. Warlocks are used to controlling Demonic energy. Warlocks already possess the ability to turn into a demon. Etc.

  13. #33
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totle View Post
    How are points 1 and 2 not valid?

    They gave away all the Demon Hunter's abilities to other classes. Do you think they would remove Metamorphosis from Demonology? The amount of uproar from that... the S"!@ storm that would be caused by such action would be huge.

    Also - people wanting Warcraft Demon Hunters want something very specific - how are you going to split it into 3 specs? Melee DPS spec? K. Tank spec? Sure. Another melee DPS spec? Uhh...

    Take Rogues, for example - You have your basic fighting spec (COMBAT) and then you have your stealth spec (Assassination) and then you have your other stealth spec (Subtlety). The last two specs are very similar.

    Look at hunters - you have your pet spec (BM), you have your archer spec (MM) and then you have your... trap spec? (Surv). The last two are hardly differentiated at all.

    Demon hunters would have the same problem of having two viable options, but then having something bland? Why force an idea just to end up with mediocrity?
    Ummm, each spec in WOW is unique. I know since I play enough classes.

    Rogues
    -Combat is the weapon focused spec
    -Assassin is poisons and dots
    -subtly is the bag of tricks spec they specialize in complex abilities for on off situations. (usually PVP spec)

    Hunters
    - Marksman is the classic ranger spec, they are weapon focused
    - Survival like subtly is about tricks and tools for different situations. (usually PVP spec)
    - Beast Master is pet focused

    The only class with two specs that overlap and have poor distinction are Holy and discipline priests.

    Demon hunters would be a hero class and they would not suffer a lack of possible class roles since I can think of about 5 different things based on lore and fan service.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    I think that monk proves that if enough people want something they will get it regardless of 1-3.
    If enough people want it, it will drive sales and blizzard will do it. I would bet all my gold that DH class will eventually come to wow.
    "I hated hating Garrosh before it was cool."
    FOR THE HORDE!!!

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, there's a pretty big difference between Death Coil and Metamorphosis. Metamorphosis is EXACTLY how WC3 Metamorphosis would behave in a WoW environment. It even uses the same demon model from WC3.

    I'm beginning to wonder if most of you even played WC3.
    I'm beginning to wonder if you, and most other people even listened to the story of WC3.
    Illidan was only able to metamorphosis AFTER consuming the Skull of Gul'dan. I don't think there's going to be hundreds of thousands Skulls of Gul'dan around to drink for every new Demon Hunter. Metamorphosis makes sense for Demonology Warlocks over player controlled Demon Hunters...Illidan, through his 10,000+ years of living, has ONLY had demon form for what...3-4 years?

    Is this an iconic ability for Illidan? Yes.
    Is this an iconic ability for demon hunters period? I'm kind of 50/50 on this one...outside of Black Temple you see demon hunters training, very few of them can use metamorphosis. I'm not quite sure how Illidan was able to train them into doing that, but whatever.
    Granted, Blizzard could retcon the lore or add new lore in why others are able to take on this form...

    That being said, if Demon Hunters are a new class I'd like for them to be trained by another Demon Hunter, similar to Telarius (Writings of the Void) - but he's dead. I feel that if Illidan were to be the trainer there would be massive mixed feelings.
    1) People want him to stay dead, people want him to have a redemption story.
    2) Look at Diablo 3, players overhype themselves. I don't think Blizzard can hold Illidan to the fan base's expectations.
    3) I think having Illidan come in during the expansion vs in the beginning of it would give a greater OMGWTFBBQ feeling of seeing him.

  16. #36
    I would be fine with it but I won't roll anything else WW monks are beyond perfection for afun class for me :>.
    Monk main Casual

    people putting quotes in signatures are often retarded according to science.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I really can't stress how important this point is. There's no way Blizzard is going to introduce the exact same mechanic for 2 classes.
    Stealth - Rogues and Ferals
    Bubble - Priest, Pally, Mage
    Pet - Hunter, Lock, Mage
    AoE Healing - Priest, Shammy, Druid

    and let's not forget Symbiosis which lets me:

    http://www.owlkin.org/mists-of-panda...iosis-results/

    To say they will not give the same mechanic to another class (even under the guise of a diff name) is kinda silly.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Snip.
    If you're literally arguing that a Demon Hunter class cannot be added to WoW unless it's exactly the same as the one in the RTS, then I guess I have to concede.

  19. #39
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manaia View Post
    I'm beginning to wonder if you, and most other people even listened to the story of WC3.
    Illidan was only able to metamorphosis AFTER consuming the Skull of Gul'dan. I don't think there's going to be hundreds of thousands Skulls of Gul'dan around to drink for every new Demon Hunter. Metamorphosis makes sense for Demonology Warlocks over player controlled Demon Hunters...Illidan, through his 10,000+ years of living, has ONLY had demon form for what...3-4 years?

    Is this an iconic ability for Illidan? Yes.
    Is this an iconic ability for demon hunters period? I'm kind of 50/50 on this one...outside of Black Temple you see demon hunters training, very few of them can use metamorphosis. I'm not quite sure how Illidan was able to train them into doing that, but whatever.
    Granted, Blizzard could retcon the lore or add new lore in why others are able to take on this form...

    That being said, if Demon Hunters are a new class I'd like for them to be trained by another Demon Hunter, similar to Telarius (Writings of the Void) - but he's dead. I feel that if Illidan were to be the trainer there would be massive mixed feelings.
    1) People want him to stay dead, people want him to have a redemption story.
    2) Look at Diablo 3, players overhype themselves. I don't think Blizzard can hold Illidan to the fan base's expectations.
    3) I think having Illidan come in during the expansion vs in the beginning of it would give a greater OMGWTFBBQ feeling of seeing him.
    Just dealing with the teacher thing, I'll reiterate something I firmly believe. The Black Harvest will be the faction of player Demon Hunters in the future. We already know they have involvement with the Black Temple, Akama, and the Legion. Yes they're important to the Green Fire questline, but that doesn't mean they're an exclusively warlock organization. It could be they are training the next generation of Demon Hunter, and Blizz will use the Green Fire questline to introduce that in preperation for the incoming Legion expansion.
    Sometimes I think I should have rolled a Priest....


  20. #40
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Okay, so given all of that, which seems more likely to be implemented; All of that you posted above, or simply giving Warlocks a melee 4th spec called Demon Hunter?

    If Demon Hunters could be playable, that's the only way I see it being possible. They seem to be heading in that direction anyway. It also makes a lot more sense than the responses I've seen so far in this thread. Warlocks wear cloth. Warlocks are used to controlling Demonic energy. Warlocks already possess the ability to turn into a demon. Etc.
    I would love a 4th spec for tanking with warlocks, in fact I believe that WOW needs to add 4th specs to all the classes aka hero specs instead of hero classes. the only thing is Mail has only 2 classes. one is pure Pet DPS, and the other is healing range and melee. So the gap in mail sort of needs to be filled, what classes in the past have not been done in one way or another? Who could fit the Mail tank role?

    Well lets look:


    Current classes Armor Type Role
    Paladin Plate Tank/Healer/Melee DPS
    Warrior Plate Tank/Melee DPS /Melee DPS
    Death Knight Plate Tank/Melee DPS/Pet DPS
    Hunter Mail Pet DPS/Pet DPS/Pet DPS
    Shaman Mail Range DPS/Healer/Melee DPS
    Rogue Leather Melee DPS /Melee DPS /Melee DPS
    Druid Leather Tank/Healer/Melee DPS/Caster DPS
    Monk Leather Tank/Healer/Melee DPS
    Mage Cloth Caster DPS/Pet DPS/Caster DPS
    Warlock Cloth Pet DPS/Pet DPS, off tank/Pet DPS
    Priest Cloth Healer/Caster DPS/healer

    So the totals 34 specs currently in game

    Tank 5.75 (warlocks with the glyph and sacrifice can get 75% there currently all we lack is crit and the ability to select tank as an option)
    Healer 5
    Caster DPS 4
    Pet DPS 7
    Melee DPS 10

    So we have a gap in Mail
    We also have 5 tank classes, 5 healer classes, with 6 pure DPS classes, the next add should be a tank/healer mail wearing class, it then becomes what flavor?

    So what Classes were mentioned in the old Warcraft games?

    Alliance

    Paladin - in game as Paladin
    Archmage - in game as Frost spec mages
    Mountain King - in game as Dwarf Warriors
    Blood Mage - in game as Destruction Warlocks

    Horde

    Far Seer - in game as Shaman
    Blademaster - warrior with mirror image.
    Tauren Chieftain - in game as Shaman
    Shadow hunter - Warlock, Mage, Priest combo class. Very troll specific

    Scourge

    DeathKnight - in game as DeathKnight
    Lich - Race type
    Dread Lord - Race type
    Crypt lord - Race type

    Night Elf

    Keeper of the grove - Race type
    Priestess of the Moon - in game as priests
    Demon Hunter - Rogue, Mage, Warlock
    Warden - in game as Subtly Spec rogues

    Neutral

    Beastmaster - in game as Hunter Spec
    Firelord - Race type
    Dark ranger - Affliction Warlock, Petless hunter combo
    Naga sea witch - Race type
    Pandaren Brewmaster - in game as Monk Tank spec
    Goblin Tinker - in game as Engineering profession
    Goblin Alchemist - in game as Profession
    Pit Lord - Race type

    Campaign
    Alliance

    Ranger
    Dark Knight - in game as DeathKnight

    Illidan's Forces

    Draenei Elder Sage - Rogue, shaman combo

    Stormreaver clan

    Warlock - in game as Warlock

    Burning Legion

    Warlock - in game as Warlock

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 11:59 AM ----------

    -Continued:
    So the Hero Classes left which are requested and which can be made to wear mail?


    They can all be included as one class, which I will call demon hunter.

    Blademasters - Tank Spec
    Shadow Hunter - Healing spec
    Dark ranger - Range Weapon use ie D3 Demon Hunter
    Sage - Melee DPS ie classic Demon Hunters

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