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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    A person who programs for employment has much higher productivity and is more focused than a person who programs for enjoyment.
    Ummmm... complete bullshit.

    The best programmers I know do it because it's what they love. The ones you AVOID are the ones who do it for money... they'll sell you out faster and skimp on work because they don't love it.
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by kNite View Post
    I said in the post that you quoted "unless they have a learning disbility" - and that is a completely different issue. I am referring to all the lazy bastards who decide they cant be bothered to study and then bitch and moan when they cant find a job.
    You sound like you have had no experience in the real world, or have and are so short-sighted that you don't give anyone any room for error, except yourself.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    I speak this as a software engineer; maintenance is the largest part of any project. There's no such thing as "no more intervention".
    They still will require people to maintain and manage the systems. That's part of the Venus Project.

    In fact, there's a lot that people can do... and you'd be surprised how many might just volunteer to help maintain something that gives you everything you need. ^_^
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    I speak this as a software engineer; maintenance is the largest part of any project. There's no such thing as "no more intervention".
    Maintenance when us humans keep changing requirements or wanting new things.

  5. #65
    Scarab Lord Roose's Avatar
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    This whole concept of innovation for cash is a relatively new construct. Historically, necessity fueled innovation to ease hardships, not to sell shit.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Utterly the other way around. A person who is programming because it is their job will do just enough to get by. A person who does it because they want to will go above and beyond that level every single time.
    When someone 'works' for enjoyment, he does it how he wants. What an individual wants is not necessarily what is the most productive, innovate or valuable.

  7. #67
    Best Kitten Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Ummmm... complete bullshit.

    The best programmers I know do it because it's what they love. The ones you AVOID are the ones who do it for money... they'll sell you out faster and skimp on work because they don't love it.
    You're both right, but it is when the two are combined (employment + enjoyment) that has the highest productivity. As for each individual concept in a vacuum? Meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    When someone 'works' for enjoyment, he does it how he wants. What an individual wants is not necessarily what is the most productive, innovate or valuable.
    Often what the individual wants is far more innovative and far less valuable (for varied reasons - sometimes a superior invention may not be able to charge customers as much).
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  8. #68
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Maintenance when us humans keep changing requirements or wanting new things.
    Because bugs never happen? Bugs are the largest expenditure in maintenance.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    How many electricians and airline employees are?
    ...I'm not sure. Probably most of them do it for passion and enjoyment and make money while they're doing it. Nobody put a gun to their head and say "be an electrician or DIE".
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  10. #70
    there is a big difference in making mistakes and being lazy so as not to get or want to get a proper education or job training. If you think its a mistake you didn't get a proper education go back and get it. But if you continue to stay uneducatued and then whine you cant get jobs you dont have my sympathy.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    You're both right, but it is when the two are combined (employment + enjoyment) that has the highest productivity. As for each individual concept in a vacuum? Meh.
    I guess things like BitTorrent and Wikkipedia haven't produced "high productivity" then...
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    You're both right, but it is when the two are combined (employment + enjoyment) that has the highest productivity. As for each individual concept in a vacuum? Meh.
    Very true. A combination of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation is ideal.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    This whole concept of innovation for cash is a relatively new construct. Historically, necessity fueled innovation to ease hardships, not to sell shit.
    Thats because modern technology has made civilization highly specialized.

    No longer can a single family produce all the goods necessary to live a 'good life'. Modern civilization is highly dependent on trade.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Yes. Thomas Edison was just monkeying around with electricity passing through wires and saw an interesting effect with Hydrogen. The idea came from "hey, I wonder if..." not "hey... how much can I make if I invent..."

    Same with the Wright Brothers. They simply liked building things in their garrage.

    Hell man, some of the simplest and largest things came from individuals doing things out of the ordinary to try things different. Even Garlic becoming a staple of culinary cuisine was due to a group of ladies inside of an out of the way gettaway cottage where they vacationed every few months, and their rule was simple: Break every rule they can think of since they were by themselves... cooking with garlic was never heard of, and that's how it happened.
    But edison didn't invent shit.

    At most he got lucky and decided to try a tungsten filament before anyone else.

    He stole most of his work (work, pretty much everything he ever did, not just the light bulb)

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Because bugs never happen? Bugs are the largest expenditure in maintenance.
    Depends on how well you wrote, I guess :P

    But seriously, there are going to be issues that need to be worked out, I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm saying software written to ensure everyone gets what they need and then hands out luxuries as they become available is going to take out that 'greed' component as well as replace a large group of paper-pushing jobs that our government currently assumes.

  16. #76
    Best Kitten Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    I guess things like BitTorrent and Wikkipedia haven't produced "high productivity" then...
    I never said they haven't. But you will find higher productivity among passionate -employed- individuals in the industry than those unemployed on average.
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  17. #77
    Scarab Lord Roose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kNite View Post
    there is a big difference in making mistakes and being lazy so as not to get or want to get a proper education or job training. If you think its a mistake you didn't get a proper education go back and get it. But if you continue to stay uneducatued and then whine you cant get jobs you dont have my sympathy.
    Masters degree enough? All I can get are jobs selling insurance or Directv in Sam's Club. Not in computer programming though or I would have a job.

    Hindsight eh

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Oh, and BTW:

    www.thevenusproject.com

    Edited Highlights
    Completely new-designed city society
    Resource-based Economy - no money
    Robots do menial work (from manufacturing to even building houses) - freeing people to pursue their own interests they enjoy
    Resources regulated via computers - no presiding ruling government needed.
    Efficient designs for all aspects of society - making all needs localized and easy to acquire for all.
    Not designed to solve every problem - designed to simply be a better solution and foundation for society.

    I doubt I'll see this realized in my lifetime, but I do believe this is where we're headed.
    Yes, these is what i was thinking, in the end that will help a lot the society, because money will not exist anymore, food will become free (no processed food like pizza) and I WILL BE THE KING OF THE WORLD AND ALL OF YOU WILL KNEEL BEFORE ME AND BEG FOR MERCY! WUHAHAHAHHAA.... ermm, as i was saying people will do what they want to do in their life, there will be more people trying to create new things, trying to make the society even better

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    Often what the individual wants is far more innovative and far less valuable (for varied reasons - sometimes a superior invention may not be able to charge customers as much).
    Innovation is the development of new customers value through solutions that meet new needs, inarticulate needs, or old customer and market needs in value adding new ways.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    I never said they haven't. But you will find higher productivity among passionate -employed- individuals in the industry than those unemployed on average.
    ...Anonymous would like to have a word with you. :P

    Yeah, I'm not believing money makes them a better programmer. All money does is give them what they want. In a society that already gives you what you want, you're then free to do your passion and will be the same net effect with the bonus of that you won't feel pressured/stressed to do your job and make shortcuts/mistakes.
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

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