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  1. #241
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    Can't make level 400 gear with copper. High level zones will always have the majority of level 80s simply because that is where all the top tier crafting materials spawn.
    True, but this means you have a world of lowbie mat farming to sell at your leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    Ulduar trash was no more intensive than any other raid... ToC was unpopular because the encounters were boring.
    Uhh...yeah. Every raid from Vanilla and TBC tend to agree. Once you get past the first boss, ulduar is hardly more time consuming or difficult as MC, BWL, TK, BT, SWP's rooms and rooms and rooms of trash without end. In those days you actually had CC's and loads of healing to do. Not to mention piles and piles of things to kill before you even glimpsed a boss.

    Ulduar had handfuls of pulls in a bosses room, run to the next boss with a handful of trash and repeat until the end. My vote would go with Mount Hyjal though as being the most tedious, boring, and painful trash in a raid ever. Especially if you wiped. Nightmares


    But anyways, GW2 and now TERA will always be worth getting because you pay one time to get the whole game as you like it. It receives pretty constant updates and will only grow from here. I haven't logged on it in a while until recently, but it's mostly because I don't feel pressured to. I get on it when I want to play it and it's there for me in all it's already paid for glory.
    Last edited by Kelimbror; 2013-01-31 at 06:31 PM.
    BAD WOLF

  2. #242
    Everybody here is focusing on raids versus no-raids. I'm never a raider (I prefer PVP), so that isn't my issue with GW2. The lifeless and boring combat is the biggest issue I have with GW2. If they could figure out how to make combat more interesting I might play again, but I practically fall asleep when playing it is so boring. Maybe I'm tired of these dumbed down tab-target games but even in the tab-target genre GW2 is boring. So few skills to utilize and so little thinking to be done regarding character builds. Boring. MMOs without min/maxing builds/gear, and few skills to utilize, is just boring boring boring. Unless you like crappy jumping puzzles and tedious crafting. Game isn't worth it in my opinion, although if they maybe cut the price in half I could recommend it. It is more of a bargain bin purchase worth about 2 weeks of your time.

  3. #243
    I am Murloc! draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    Can't make level 400 gear with copper. High level zones will always have the majority of level 80s simply because that is where all the top tier crafting materials spawn.

    Ulduar trash was no more intensive than any other raid... ToC was unpopular because the encounters were boring.
    It was an endless amount of trash surrounding most bosses so yes it was, ulduar trash guides exist for a reason. Toc was unpopular for more than just the encounters.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 04:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by gainesvilleg View Post
    Snip.
    Ouch, really? Even I wouldnt stoop to calling the build diversity in GW2 boring. People have mentioned the pvp before. Spvp is not anything to crow about, WvW has its charms otherwise i dont know what else it offers pvp wise, its not even balanced.
    Last edited by draykorinee; 2013-01-31 at 04:49 PM.

  4. #244
    Well it would be interesting to see what combat they find interesting, for a point of reference. But that might end up with some mud slinging, so perhaps that wouldn't be the best course to take.

  5. #245
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gainesvilleg View Post
    Everybody here is focusing on raids versus no-raids. I'm never a raider (I prefer PVP), so that isn't my issue with GW2. The lifeless and boring combat is the biggest issue I have with GW2. If they could figure out how to make combat more interesting I might play again, but I practically fall asleep when playing it is so boring. Maybe I'm tired of these dumbed down tab-target games but even in the tab-target genre GW2 is boring. So few skills to utilize and so little thinking to be done regarding character builds. Boring. MMOs without min/maxing builds/gear, and few skills to utilize, is just boring boring boring. Unless you like crappy jumping puzzles and tedious crafting. Game isn't worth it in my opinion, although if they maybe cut the price in half I could recommend it. It is more of a bargain bin purchase worth about 2 weeks of your time.

    I take it you haven't tried a D/D or S/D Elementalist, lol.
    Morpheus: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

  6. #246
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gainesvilleg View Post
    Maybe I'm tired of these dumbed down tab-target games but even in the tab-target genre GW2 is boring. So few skills to utilize and so little thinking to be done regarding character builds. Boring.
    So having multiple spells that look different but accomplish the same purposes is somehow more engaging? In other games with ability bloat you either macro everything you need to one button or look at a myriad of websites that tell you you what spells to push and then you line down your hotkeys so you press 1-5 , then smash 2 for a minute.

    Clearly you don't care for the genre's take on combat anymore, so I don't really consider your specific criticism of this game to be very appropriate. GW2 is a hybrid of action combat and 'tab target' genre. If you are a caster, it's admittedly more dull but the 'rotations' are more complex to make up for it. Melee has the action side of things, as you still have to 'aim' your attacks.

    Short of having a wii nunchuk/magic wand to wave around at your screen, you aren't going to be able to find much difference in how combat works in RPG games as a whole. You can only do a handful of things. Guild Wars 2 does a great job of creating simplicity for those that want it and complexity for those that want it.

    If you don't find the combat engaging enough, chances are you aren't maximizing your abilities from weapon swapping, buffs, and many Function key abilities. Not to mention the dynamic of group play with abilities.

    In a game that thinks a little outside the box, it's not surprising that to enjoy it fully you must also think outside the box.
    BAD WOLF

  7. #247
    ToC? Come on, you zoned into one room (that was already dull to begin with and that you'd already seen multiple times before in the 5-man normal and heroic versions) which never changed so of course that's not going to be a favorite. The best part about Ulduar was that each section of it was different and it was the first "pretty" raid since Sunwell (IMO).

    As far as raiding is concerned, the most frequently used arguments I see in favor of it are by people who enjoy large scale coordinated gameplay with challenging boss mechanics. I've never seen any other reasoning used. I can't comment on Rift, but in WoW the lore/story in their raids was so water thin you'd do just as well watching a YouTube video and I still maintain that once you've seen a raid you've seen it. There's no reason to go back at all unless you enjoy the coordinated gameplay and challenging encounters. Well, except for the gear carrot they dangle in front of your nose.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    It was an endless amount of trash surrounding most bosses so yes it was, ulduar trash guides exist for a reason. Toc was unpopular for more than just the encounters.
    I'd take Ulduar trash over BT, BWL, or Naxx Classic any day, even SSC trash was more of a pain than Ulduar. Trash around Void Reaver was more dangerous than the vast majority of trash in Ulduar.

  9. #249
    I am Murloc! draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post

    There's no reason to go back at all unless you enjoy the coordinated gameplay and challenging encounters. Well, except for the gear carrot they dangle in front of your nose.
    Well...yeah but whats youre point, isnt that the same for all grind/farm content, be it heroics, be it explorable dungeons or dailies etc etc, noone repeats the content for the sake of it, its always some reward at the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    I'd take Ulduar trash over BT, BWL, or Naxx Classic any day, even SSC trash was more of a pain than Ulduar. Trash around Void Reaver was more dangerous than the vast majority of trash in Ulduar.
    Me too.
    Last edited by draykorinee; 2013-01-31 at 06:37 PM.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Well...yeah but whats youre point, isnt that the same for all grind/farm content, be it heroics, be it explorable dungeons or dailies etc etc, noone repeats the content for the sake of it, its always some reward at the end.
    So, then you agree that given other choices of obtaining the same rewards most people would choose not to raid? Because that's basically the point that was trying to be made all of one page back.

  11. #251
    I am Murloc! draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post
    So, then you agree that given other choices of obtaining the same rewards most people would choose not to raid? Because that's basically the point that was trying to be made all of one page back.
    I think we all agreed that the majority of people already chose not to raid, the hypothetical problem of giving out equal gear to everyone not just to raiders is not particularly relevant because by doing so you destroy the core of the game, the same way you would if you added progressive tiers in GW2. However were blizzard to suddenly give heroic raid gear to one and all, would you see a drop in raiders you would but I also think you'd see a massive decline in players anyway, the carrot on the end of the stick or the skinner box sure is a hook for raiding but to say people raid to get gear and not for the enjoyment is just a bit off.
    Hypothetically if one was to remove all karma and experience from lower level areas would people go for 100% world achievement, highly unlikely.
    Last edited by draykorinee; 2013-01-31 at 06:56 PM.

  12. #252
    Alright guys. Thread has run it's course. We're all way off topic and just talking about raiding now.

    So yea, closing.

    -- Fencers

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