D.C. public schools to drop civics.

[Politicus]

You call these things a travesty... Which to you seems correct. I would guess that the subjects you have mentioned, are ones that you very much enjoyed. I would go further and say that because you enjoyed them, and found them useful, everyone should be forced in to those classes.

When I was in highscool (graduated in 2000), The top math requirement was Algebra 3/4. You were hard pressed to even find people taking the calculus class. There were 12 student in my Calculus class and only about 15 in the afternoon class. Also, Physics wasn't a requirement either... though it was rather popular.

I would submit to you that Fine Arts and Physical Education have just as much value as Physics, Calculus, Civics and the rest. With the kick about youth obesity... Physical Education seems like a worth while idea. And, I am just going to throw in Fine Arts because it balances out the more "scientific" courses.

Oh and one more thing. When I was in high school. We were required to take a certain amount of Physical Education to graduate... so that really isn't anything new.

Replying to bolded part:

I completely agree that those classes have value, but I don't agree with sacrificing other classes just to make those more prominent than the rest.
Especially when one of those classes you are sacrificing is Civics, which teaches students how the government actually works, rather than how their parents think it works.

Also, I enjoyed all of my subjects, not just the maths and science ones, because I value a well rounded education, and I am also someone who is deeply curious about everything, so all the classes were fine to me.

Still, opinions differ, and that's fine, I just don't believe it's a good idea to not teach Civics to students who will be eligible to vote soon after or even during the class.

To be honest, I think our school system needs reworking, but that's just me.

For example, I would add another class period or two, making it 8 or 9 class periods per day, make more subjects mandatory, and do year round schooling instead of being based off an agrarian calendar.

[Reeve]

Replying to bolded part:

I completely agree that those classes have value, but I don't agree with sacrificing other classes just to make those more prominent than the rest.
Especially when one of those classes you are sacrificing is Civics, which teaches students how the government actually works, rather than how their parents think it works.

Also, I enjoyed all of my subjects, not just the maths and science ones, because I value a well rounded education, and I am also someone who is deeply curious about everything, so all the classes were fine to me.

Still, opinions differ, and that's fine, I just don't believe it's a good idea to not teach Civics to students who will be eligible to vote soon after or even during the class.

To be honest, I think our school system needs reworking, but that's just me.

For example, I would add another class period or two, making it 8 or 9 class periods per day, make more subjects mandatory, and do year round schooling instead of being based off an agrarian calendar.

Pretty much exactly what you said. Phys. Ed. has value, but if you have to choose one class over the other, I'd rather deal with a fat person than an ignorant one.

[Twotonsteak]

This explains the Death Star petition! Emperor Obama, leader of the Empire, building a Death Star! Darth Vader... was black(on the outside)! It all makes sense now!

Luke, where are you?

The President is protected by the Secret Service.
The Secret Service has the initials SS.
SS was also the term used for Hitlers special police.
The SS (Hitlers version) were the inspiration for Storm Troopers.
Storm Troopers acted, in part, as protection for the Empire and Vader.
As such Obama is Darth Vader.

(Obviously this is intended as a joke.)

[Zylos]

I am not sure of the curriculum structure in DC but here in Massachusetts (regularly cited as the most educated state) we never had a civics class even offered at any level of public schooling.

The closest thing I ever had was social studies which does deal with civics on some level but the class mostly just covered US and world history. I really don't see how civics is necessary as a public education course. Any class in US history should be able to cover the crucial need to know civics topics.

The President is protected by the Secret Service.
The Secret Service has the initials SS.
SS was also the term used for Hitlers special police.
The SS (Hitlers version) were the inspiration for Storm Troopers.
Storm Troopers acted, in part, as protection for the Empire and Vader.
As such Obama is Darth Vader.

(Obviously this is intended as a joke.)

The problem with those jokes is that there are people who will actually believe that...and they usually have a loud mouth.

[Twotonsteak]

I am not sure of the curriculum structure in DC but here in Massachusetts (regularly cited as the most educated state) we never had a civics class even offered at any level of public schooling.

The closest thing I ever had was social studies which does deal with civics on some level but the class mostly just covered US and world history. I really don't see how civics is necessary as a public education course. Any class in US history should be able to cover the crucial need to know civics topics.

You would think that, yes. However when I graduated (way back in '96) "US History" involved a few battles during the Revolution with no mention of many important figures. A few battles during the Civil War, again, with no mention of many major figures. Virtually nothing about WW1 was covered and only a little about WW2 was mentioned. And nothing post-WW2 was mentioned. Nothing at all.

I cited Washington DC as the most recent case in an ongoing issue. That issue is the common response to failing test scores and a poor educational system. If the children are doing poorly in a certain subject then get rid of/reduce the requirements for that subject.

[Reeve]

You would think that, yes. However when I graduated (way back in '96) "US History" involved a few battles during the Revolution with no mention of many important figures. A few battles during the Civil War, again, with no mention of many major figures. Virtually nothing about WW1 was covered and only a little about WW2 was mentioned. And nothing post-WW2 was mentioned. Nothing at all.

I cited Washington DC as the most recent case in an ongoing issue. That issue is the common response to failing test scores and a poor educational system. If the children are doing poorly in a certain subject then get rid of/reduce the requirements for that subject.

Strange. I graduated High School in '01, and I thought that the school did a pretty good job with American History, aside from the one teacher who tried to teach us that Manifest Destiny was a form of Isolationism.

[Beazy]

Isnt Washington DC the lowest educated city in the country?

[Reeve]

Isnt Washington DC the lowest educated city in the country?

I'm sure it depends how you measure it. There are a whole damn lot of highly educated lobbyists and policy wonks there.

[Tucci]

A lot of people dropped their Civics when I used to live in Boston. They also painted them a bright color and installed huge subwoofers in the trunk that would rattle the car.

[Armass]

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theory, I bet the US Government wouldn't mind one bit if the general population were more ignorant to how they worked lol.

All part of the plan.

This is what I tought of too when I read this.

[theredviola]

Yeah, getting rid of arts and crafts haven't helped things... while I would normally "test scores have gone down since cutting arts," the entire "testing" system is bogus. Everyone is different and learns differently. However, all of these tests can only grade a few parts of a person's intelligence (Gardner's 7 Intelligences http://www.infed.org/thinkers/gardner.htm).

Mini-pro-arts rant over.

At least DC isn't doing what the Texas school systems are doing. Texas schools are no longer required to teach critical thinking because it might hinder "fixed beliefs" and "undermine parental authority."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...pFXW_blog.html

[Omega10]

"You can get through High School in my school district without taking Calculus, the highest you have to go is Pre-Calc"

Interesting. I am 52, meaning I did high school back in the 1970s. I DID do Calculus in High School. There were 8 of us in the class, give or take a few. Very few did much more than Business Math and maybe Algebra II. A huge majority never did Pre Calc, and few did Physics. Although we DID have a decent Chemistry class!

Sounds to me like students these days are being required to do a LOT more than back in the 1970s, and the handwringing is about the fact that the new generation can't do in 2 years what most people didn't do in 4 a generation ago.

---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 04:10 PM ----------

"I cited Washington DC as the most recent case in an ongoing issue. That issue is the common response to failing test scores and a poor educational system. If the children are doing poorly in a certain subject then get rid of/reduce the requirements for that subject."

This is exactly how the testing program was sold. One of the benefits of testing is that it allows us to get rid of programs that are failing and keep the ones that are working. This is "working as intended".

Getting rid of Civics really is the least expensive and easiest way to deal with the problem of low Civics scores. It is just that sometimes going down the path of least resistance leads to not so good results.

[Dhurn]

Interesting. I am 52, meaning I did high school back in the 1970s. I DID do Calculus in High School. There were 8 of us in the class, give or take a few. Very few did much more than Business Math and maybe Algebra II. A huge majority never did Pre Calc, and few did Physics. Although we DID have a decent Chemistry class!

Sounds to me like students these days are being required to do a LOT more than back in the 1970s, and the handwringing is about the fact that the new generation can't do in 2 years what most people didn't do in 4 a generation ago.

What you described was pretty similar to what most students did in my high school, Algebra 2 + Excel accounting. I tutored like half the baseball team on algebra 2 so they would be eligible for the state tournament, and let me tell you, they definitely were not going anywhere near a calc class anytime soon.

[JfmC]

Yes ! Lets make the future generations of mankind dumber then the previous generations, that sounds like a good idea!