1. #1
    High Overlord Heviletti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    151

    [Arcane?] Which spec should I play?

    I used to play Fire since beginning of cataclysm till the recent nerfs of combustion and CM nerfed to 1.25(buffed to 1.30) again, and I felt like i was not doing any dps with Fire, and changed to arcane.
    Arcane felts clumsy in my hands, and if I had any movement in the fight, it just felt strange, as i'm not used to raiding with arcane at any point of the game tbh.
    I changed to frost after arcane, and I fell in love with it, but it still does much less damage than Arcane in single target fights (you don't say i know)
    I'm pretty much having problems with deciding specs, our guild officer who plays arcane is pulling pretty much higher numbers in dps than me cause of being arcane, but I just hate playing it, and frost doesn't pull out that much single target dps in this patch (maybe in next patch after getting some buff?)

    Should I stay in frost spec, learn to like arcane, or maybe switch to fire and see what I can do?

    link to my armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...letti/advanced (503 bags, 502 equipped Ilvl)
    link to our guilds logs (just incase): http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/225727/

  2. #2
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    700
    I would honestly just stick with frost for now. Frost still has several fights that it wins over arcane and its not like the dps is bad.

    Don't think about 5.2 too much as there's still quite a while to go and we really have no clue what mages will really be like once it finally hits.

    If you try arcane it shouldn't take you long to work out if you like it or not. Just remember to try all the combinations haste/mastery, rop/invocation you get the idea.

    There's always a chance that you might not be doing the most dps with your gear. You seem to be doing very well looking at your rankings but there seems to be room for improvement.(particularly on grand empress)

    You're armory shows your using frost bomb with light of the cosmos and your using the water elemental glyph instead of ice lance btw. I'm sure you were using them for a reason I'm just pointing it out :P
    MB: Asus Maximus V Extreme CPU: [email protected] custom water loop GPU: Gigabyte GTX 680 RAM: Corsair 4x4GB 1600Mhz 7-8-8-24
    SSD: Samsung 830 256GB PSU: Corsair AX850 CASE: Corsair 800D
    Armory

  3. #3
    High Overlord Heviletti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    I would honestly just stick with frost for now. Frost still has several fights that it wins over arcane and its not like the dps is bad.

    Don't think about 5.2 too much as there's still quite a while to go and we really have no clue what mages will really be like once it finally hits.

    If you try arcane it shouldn't take you long to work out if you like it or not. Just remember to try all the combinations haste/mastery, rop/invocation you get the idea.

    There's always a chance that you might not be doing the most dps with your gear. You seem to be doing very well looking at your rankings but there seems to be room for improvement.(particularly on grand empress)

    You're armory shows your using frost bomb with light of the cosmos and your using the water elemental glyph instead of ice lance btw. I'm sure you were using them for a reason I'm just pointing it out :P
    Thank you for your answer. Grand empress logs are probably bad cause of P2, when adds come out, i'm mostly giving orders to people with the slow debuff that needs to be stacked to get the trap, and i'm also carrying the slime there myself, and that's where my dps is going lower (I was 5th in the dps before p2)

    I recently switched to Water Elemental glyph instead of Evocation glyph (Cause I used rune of power and didn't find the heal so useful when soloing stuff) and now I changed the evocation glyph back, but seems like I placed it over Ice lance glyph (I noticed this yesterday and should have changed it but seems like I forgot) So I'm switching back to Ice lance glyph asap.

    The thing about Frost bomb and light of the cosmos is something I haven't heard about, they're bad together or what? I'm not sure if I should use Light of the Cosmos HC (2/2 upgraded) or Sha of Fear haste trinket normal (0/2 upgraded), and why not Frost Bomb? I read this "Mage Bomb Analysis" thread and it told me that Frost bomb is best single target, Nether tempest best 2 targets, and Living Bomb best on 3 targets, tell me if i'm wrong with that

  4. #4
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    700
    As long as you designate where to make the traps beforehand you really shouldn't have to order people around too much. Having to order people around and raid leading hurts your dps no matter what spec you play.

    I pointed it out specifically because I managed 100k dpse in gear 10 ilvl's below you so you can do a lot more dps.

    The problem with using frost bomb with light of the cosmos is that it doesn't proc the trinket and it's a severe dps loss.

    Nether tempest actually becomes the best single target dps once you get heroic lotc. I only learnt this recently myself.

    If your using heroic light of the cosmos normal essence of terror is better then the relic of yu'lon.

    You also want to swap to a haste heavy gemming instead of the normal gemming once you start using lotc and nether tempest.

    For aoe fights I would keep your relic of yu'lon and use it with essence of terror and frost bomb.
    Last edited by jtmzac; 2013-01-24 at 11:51 AM.
    MB: Asus Maximus V Extreme CPU: [email protected] custom water loop GPU: Gigabyte GTX 680 RAM: Corsair 4x4GB 1600Mhz 7-8-8-24
    SSD: Samsung 830 256GB PSU: Corsair AX850 CASE: Corsair 800D
    Armory

  5. #5
    More exactly on the trinket: Only dots proc the trinket. So it's viable for Fire because there's a lot of dots. And it's only viable for the other specs if you use Nethertempest or living bomb. I play Frost so I went with RoY 2/2 and EoT NH 2/2. This will be fine till the content is through. Maybe I will get LotC if nobody else needs it in the near future.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    700
    Quote Originally Posted by reflection View Post
    More exactly on the trinket: Only dots proc the trinket. So it's viable for Fire because there's a lot of dots. And it's only viable for the other specs if you use Nethertempest or living bomb. I play Frost so I went with RoY 2/2 and EoT NH 2/2. This will be fine till the content is through. Maybe I will get LotC if nobody else needs it in the near future.
    Yes you can use frost bomb if you use relic of yu'lon and essence of terror but it doesn't change the fact that it's less dps then nether tempest with heroic light of the cosmos and normal essence of terror.

    Unless you really hate using nether tempest I suggest once you get heroic light of the cosmos and normal essence of terror you swap to nether tempest and a haste heavy gemming.
    MB: Asus Maximus V Extreme CPU: [email protected] custom water loop GPU: Gigabyte GTX 680 RAM: Corsair 4x4GB 1600Mhz 7-8-8-24
    SSD: Samsung 830 256GB PSU: Corsair AX850 CASE: Corsair 800D
    Armory

  7. #7
    High Overlord Heviletti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    Yes you can use frost bomb if you use relic of yu'lon and essence of terror but it doesn't change the fact that it's less dps then nether tempest with heroic light of the cosmos and normal essence of terror.

    Unless you really hate using nether tempest I suggest once you get heroic light of the cosmos and normal essence of terror you swap to nether tempest and a haste heavy gemming.
    So with gemming haste heavy, changing all my gems for 320 haste or what? maybe go a bit into specific thanks. And I should use LotC HC and EoT on single target, and RoY and EoT on AoE?

  8. #8
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    700
    Quote Originally Posted by Heviletti View Post
    So with gemming haste heavy, changing all my gems for 320 haste or what? maybe go a bit into specific thanks. And I should use LotC HC and EoT on single target, and RoY and EoT on AoE?
    Yellow Socket: Quick Sun's Radiance, Blue Socket: Lightning Wild Jade, Red Socket: Reckless Vermilion Onyx, Prismatic Socket: Quick Sun's Radiance.

    Heroic LotC + Normal Essence of Terror with Nether Tempest for single target.

    Relic of Yu'lon + Normal Essence of Terror with frost bomb for aoe.
    MB: Asus Maximus V Extreme CPU: [email protected] custom water loop GPU: Gigabyte GTX 680 RAM: Corsair 4x4GB 1600Mhz 7-8-8-24
    SSD: Samsung 830 256GB PSU: Corsair AX850 CASE: Corsair 800D
    Armory

  9. #9
    Did I mention that I play frost? I usually do use nether tempest. But for frost RoY simmed better some time ago then LotC heroic because of it's double int (passive + proc). In terms of stat weights int is more then double as valuable as haste for frost. That's why I think RoY is still better then LotC hc.
    I use Frostbomb only on fights like Windlord where you really have a lot of adds. I also use it on Feng for maximum AoE on the Adds + the slow, because IF something is wiping us on the boss then it's those stupid Adds

  10. #10
    High Overlord Heviletti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    Yellow Socket: Quick Sun's Radiance, Blue Socket: Lightning Wild Jade, Red Socket: Reckless Vermilion Onyx, Prismatic Socket: Quick Sun's Radiance.

    Heroic LotC + Normal Essence of Terror with Nether Tempest for single target.

    Relic of Yu'lon + Normal Essence of Terror with frost bomb for aoe.
    Thanks for your answer, these helped me alot!

    EDIT: Are you sure about Haste+Hit in blue socket?
    Last edited by Heviletti; 2013-01-24 at 03:04 PM.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    700
    Quote Originally Posted by reflection View Post
    Did I mention that I play frost? I usually do use nether tempest. But for frost RoY simmed better some time ago then LotC heroic because of it's double int (passive + proc). In terms of stat weights int is more then double as valuable as haste for frost. That's why I think RoY is still better then LotC hc.
    I use Frostbomb only on fights like Windlord where you really have a lot of adds. I also use it on Feng for maximum AoE on the Adds + the slow, because IF something is wiping us on the boss then it's those stupid Adds
    I think at sometime in the past RoY + EoT with frost bomb was the best but at some point this changed to LotC + EoT with nether tempest.

    I've done the sims myself and LotC + EoT with nether tempest is definitely the best dps.

    Like always you should really just do the sims yourself in your gear. As for stat weights they aren't really necessary as frost since the reforging priority is so fixed this patch. I'm waiting for 5.2 when we should see some interesting changes with the introduction of haste caps and the increase of crits value.

    Apart from wind lord there's not really any fights where frost bomb is a lot better then nether tempest. It has its situational uses on various fights amber shaper, empress adds, sparks on elegon etc.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 02:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Heviletti View Post
    Thanks for your answer, these helped me alot!

    EDIT: Are you sure about Haste+Hit in blue socket?
    I haven't simmed your gear with the various gemmings to check so no I'm not completely sure.

    I'll do it now and come back with some definitive answers in a bit.

    Also you might want to update your signature
    Last edited by jtmzac; 2013-01-24 at 03:14 PM.
    MB: Asus Maximus V Extreme CPU: [email protected] custom water loop GPU: Gigabyte GTX 680 RAM: Corsair 4x4GB 1600Mhz 7-8-8-24
    SSD: Samsung 830 256GB PSU: Corsair AX850 CASE: Corsair 800D
    Armory

  12. #12
    High Overlord Heviletti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    I think at sometime in the past RoY + EoT with frost bomb was the best but at some point this changed to LotC + EoT with nether tempest.

    I've done the sims myself and LotC + EoT with nether tempest is definitely the best dps.

    Like always you should really just do the sims yourself in your gear. As for stat weights they aren't really necessary as frost since the reforging priority is so fixed this patch. I'm waiting for 5.2 when we should see some interesting changes with the introduction of haste caps and the increase of crits value.

    Apart from wind lord there's not really any fights where frost bomb is a lot better then nether tempest. It has its situational uses on various fights amber shaper, empress adds, sparks on elegon etc.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 02:12 AM ----------



    I haven't simmed your gear with the various gemmings to check so no I'm not completely sure.

    I'll do it now and come back with some definitive answers in a bit.
    Thank you very much I'm not so experienced in simming either :/

  13. #13
    Stick with frost if it suits you more.

    If at some point you feel that your dps is kinda holding back your raid, maybe you should consider trying arcane (you're doing heroics so having a competitive dps is important).
    Again, this is only valid till 5.2, because we dont know whats is gonna be FotM then.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  14. #14
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    700
    Well I've finished the sims. Just as a note I gave you a normal non-upgraded EoT for all the sims other than the "current gear and spec".

    Patchwerk
    Current Gear and spec: 106628
    Current with nether tempest: 109921
    Haste gemming with blue gems: 109897
    Haste Gemming with green gems: 109966

    So for patchwerk haste gemming including green gems is the winner. (only just)

    Helter Skelter
    Current Gear and spec: 84078
    Current with nether tempest: 90400
    Haste gemming with blue gems: 91976
    Haste Gemming with green gems: 91979

    You can see that once there's movement the haste gemming has a significant advantage.

    Full haste gemming is the best according to these numbers.

    I did the sims of your current gear and spec to show you just how much using frost bomb with lotc is hurting your dps. Just swapping to nether tempest should give you a 3.5k to 8k dps increase.
    MB: Asus Maximus V Extreme CPU: [email protected] custom water loop GPU: Gigabyte GTX 680 RAM: Corsair 4x4GB 1600Mhz 7-8-8-24
    SSD: Samsung 830 256GB PSU: Corsair AX850 CASE: Corsair 800D
    Armory

  15. #15
    High Overlord Heviletti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    Well I've finished the sims. Just as a note I gave you a normal non-upgraded EoT for all the sims other than the "current gear and spec".

    Patchwerk
    Current Gear and spec: 106628
    Current with nether tempest: 109921
    Haste gemming with blue gems: 109897
    Haste Gemming with green gems: 109966

    So for patchwerk haste gemming including green gems is the winner. (only just)

    Helter Skelter
    Current Gear and spec: 84078
    Current with nether tempest: 90400
    Haste gemming with blue gems: 91976
    Haste Gemming with green gems: 91979

    You can see that once there's movement the haste gemming has a significant advantage.

    Full haste gemming is the best according to these numbers.

    I did the sims of your current gear and spec to show you just how much using frost bomb with lotc is hurting your dps. Just swapping to nether tempest should give you a 3.5k to 8k dps increase.
    Thank you so much for this information! Appreciated

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •