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  1. #41
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    I stopped placing any great deal of care in my Paladin when Blizzard did the same. Anyone who maintains that Ret Paladins are 'pretty much exactly where they want them to be right now', such as Ghostcrawler, is not really prepared or qualified to spearhead any changes to it.
    The first thing I remember about the world — and I pray that it may be the last — is that I was a stranger in it.” - Malcolm Muggeridge, Apologia pro vita sua (1968)

  2. #42
    Immortal Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celinamuna View Post
    You mean the way it is right now ? If you want passive mitigation you do get parry/dodge/mastery, if you want active, you get haste.
    Everyone seems to be stacking haste though. I want dodge and parry, but i dont want to get left behind.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 12:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    I stopped placing any great deal of care in my Paladin when Blizzard did the same. Anyone who maintains that Ret Paladins are 'pretty much exactly where they want them to be right now', such as Ghostcrawler, is not really prepared or qualified to spearhead any changes to it.

    Ret is as good as its been since wrath imo. Wrath paladin was great. Didnt play it in bc or vanilla. MoP paladin is miles ahead of cata, and even though it didn't get THAT many changes, the changes it did get like aoe and more ways for hp helped immensely.
    Send me a PM and suggest a forum avatar based on my title, Immortal.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    I want dodge and parry, but i dont want to get left behind.
    Why would you want stats that quite literally do not hold as much value as mastery or haste? Why is there a preconceived notion that tanking must be wrapped around avoidance and EH? I quite enjoy the more innovative approaches to tanking, as someone who has been doing it for 8 tiers of content now.

    I also fail to understand why developers give Protection access to sanctity of battle, and then shit themselves when players discover that abusing that mechanic provides greater returns for your raid than being just another player that only queues for LFR and doesn't read what their abilities do.
    Last edited by djtravitrav; 2013-01-25 at 06:19 AM.

  4. #44
    speaking as someone that just last week, had to go Prot for the 1st time since day 1 of Firelands (which was THE 1st time I ever went prot)...

    if they change how pally tanking works, my pally will just stay ret. I can't stand holy, and I hated cata pally tanking. this new version we have currently is, at least (imo), the best pally tanking version I've experienced.

    If it's changed, my guild will be ^%$#ed cuz they'll have to wait for me to level and gear my DK... which, with how my luck works, will take quite a while.

  5. #45
    im not playing prot anymore, but its hillarious.
    '

    protpallys not supposed to scale with haste - reaction: making haste a 100% get stat. - explaination: when they nerf soR that way, it becomes a) unneccessary for those who DONT use haste (like i did), cause the uptime is way to low. b) that either forces me to go haste (and have a bad 4.5 to 3sek ability reducing physical dmg

    so in the end haste becomes a main tanking stat OR a spell becomes useless. when soR becomes useless, pally will heal MORE, which causes a nerf to wog again within a next hotfix.


    so blizzard, when haste isnt supposed for protectionpallys, why not just remove the damn cause ( dont know the spells name in english, that which causes CS etc to scale with haste) from the prot spellbook.

    a 30%physical reduce for 3sec is useless, you cant even time it right. and physical dmg isnt the problem at all. so this:


    CS and HoR down to 3sec standard, judgement 9sec. remove the damn haste scaling at all. reduce global cd to 1sec maybe (it feels like grampa lifting a box beeing the only tank still having 1.5sec global ;-)

    then make soR <!either!> a 6sec lasting 60%dmgall reduction with 9-12sec cooldown! <!or!> make it useable with less holypower, 1hopo: 20% 9sec 2hopo:40% 6sec 3hopo: 60% 3sec without cooldown.

    the way blizz goes will make the skill lower average for ppl WITH full haste
    and completely break the skill for those who didnt go haste.

  6. #46
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Brilliant. My topic has been moved to the class forums where blues don't even read it. Safe to say my appeal failed, sorry guys.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 10:33 AM ----------

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6443225827

    Comment on this one too please.

  7. #47
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    If you want to use haste and crit then whats the point of dodge and parry? Should blizzard just delete those stats altogether? Idk, i don't like the idea of stacking haste.
    To be quite honest, yes. I'd honestly rather see them get rid of "tanking" plate all together, and have them create some other form of conversion rating for dodge (similar to how STR converts to parry) for plate tanks. That way, they'd be able to remove an entire swath of gear from the lists, making it less of a pain to obtain gear (or giving them more room for more items per loot table).

    It would also simultaneously make tanking more active as a whole, because the only 'passive' stat you'd be able to get would be mastery. Even then, you need to use ShotR to utilize your mastery, so it's not like you get to just sit there with it.

  8. #48
    Remove SoB, lower cd on moves either .25-.5 sec to somewhat compensate. Bam no core abilities nerfed and haste is a thing of the past. keep in mind this is coming from a prot pally who already stacks mastery so the change wont change my play style.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Abysmo3420 View Post
    Remove SoB, lower cd on moves either .25-.5 sec to somewhat compensate. Bam no core abilities nerfed and haste is a thing of the past. keep in mind this is coming from a prot pally who already stacks mastery so the change wont change my play style.
    Lowering cds on abilities will change your playstyle ^^
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  10. #50
    Fluffy Kitten Fhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abysmo3420 View Post
    Remove SoB, lower cd on moves either .25-.5 sec to somewhat compensate. Bam no core abilities nerfed and haste is a thing of the past. keep in mind this is coming from a prot pally who already stacks mastery so the change wont change my play style.
    So because it doesn't "affect" you (actually, it would), you're okay with them screwing over those of us who like haste?

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  11. #51
    The Lightbringer Valarius's Avatar
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    I think it's safe to say the nail is in the coffin at this point. They're insistent that out there somewhere are millions of Protadins "stealing" DPS plate from Frost DKs and they can't have that.

    Prepare to be a fucking meat shield and sit there with your stacked up passive stat of choice.

    It's pathetic.

    Also one of their arguments is we're taking Ret tier for the bonuses now that haste is attractive. I've seen literally 0 Paladins doing this considering Ret bonuses are for RET ABILITIES.

    Do they even understand their own game?
    Last edited by Valarius; 2013-01-25 at 03:33 PM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Also one of their arguments is we're taking Ret tier for the bonuses now that haste is attractive. I've seen literally 0 Paladins doing this considering Ret bonuses are for RET ABILITIES.

    Do they even understand their own game?
    Actually I took ret set pieces since it is a good buff for prots aswell. 65 sec ( was 95 before ) reduced CD on sanctified wrath is great.

    Though I mean, really, the problem is not that ret pieces is to attractive, it is that prot pieces were to shit.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  13. #53
    im totally agaist haste stacking for tanks, no matter if they r paladins or not.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by hir0shima View Post
    im totally agaist haste stacking for tanks, no matter if they r paladins or not.
    And why is that?

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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Then send GC a message on that twitter thing.
    Heh. Blizz forums had a thread "don't shoot the devs!"

    I commented "just shoot Ghostcrawler and things can (only) get better."

    --> instant banhammer

  16. #56
    The Lightbringer Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Actually I took ret set pieces since it is a good buff for prots aswell. 65 sec ( was 95 before ) reduced CD on sanctified wrath is great.

    Though I mean, really, the problem is not that ret pieces is to attractive, it is that prot pieces were to shit.
    I get the 65sec is nice, but I'm still seeing most Protadins using 4set prot or 100% off-pieces with max haste. What I'm getting at is Blizzard are pointing at a minority and using that as part of their justification for wrecking the build.

    Also the next tier set we don't have access to TV or Exo which is when they'll be looking to bring this haste nerf in. Again, their argument just falls flat.
    Last edited by Valarius; 2013-01-25 at 04:10 PM.

  17. #57
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luciferiuz View Post
    Yeah tanks shouldnt use dps stats. Thats why all druids have dodge/parry leather and DKs use 1handers with a shield /sarcasm

    Also, if Blizzard could balance every stat so they were all completely equal (which they can't) that would be the most boring itemization model I've ever seen.

    You literally would be like "welp, got some gear. Better enchant it. What do I socket? Whatever I want. Reforge? Whats that?"

    Comparing a prot paladin using DPS stats to a druid using dps stats is not really the same. Difference...they make plate gear that is specifically for tanks. They don't make leather gear specifically for tanks.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-01-25 at 05:55 PM.

  18. #58
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by hir0shima View Post
    im totally agaist haste stacking for tanks, no matter if they r paladins or not.
    Great talk Russ.

  19. #59
    All tanks must gear exactly the same as each other except for the hero class. Homegenization above all except DK's.

    I loved that paladins used haste. It only makes sense since we are spell-casting tanks. Whatever though. Just like when agility was killed as a plate dodge stat except it now only screws paladins over. YAY for nerfs.
    Last edited by Drummerboy; 2013-01-25 at 04:51 PM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Abysmo3420 View Post
    Remove SoB, lower cd on moves either .25-.5 sec to somewhat compensate. Bam no core abilities nerfed and haste is a thing of the past. keep in mind this is coming from a prot pally who already stacks mastery so the change wont change my play style.
    So because you don't understand or want to embrace the ideal and most effective way to play your spec, you suggest this is a good thing? The "Hey, I like tanking cause I can stack D/P and go afk for a smoke" days are over, and AM is the name of the game. The problem is that while Blizz gave us this wonderful AM tool to help separate the men from the boys and make tanking FUN and INVOLVED instead of Vanilla-meatshield sytle, they lacked the foresight to see the ramifications on the (already crowded) loot tables.

    Your suggestion is naive at best and bad at worst. There are far easier and more elegant solutions that have been suggested such as:
    1) Leave things alone, cause the system is fine.
    2) Just scrap the idea of "tank plate", and follow the lead of the agi-leather users in terms of getting mitigation/avoidance from secondary stats. Just have all plate drops be STR/STA, with crit, hit, exp, mastery as secondaries. It's not like you don't have a precedent here...Feral/guardians have been taking rog loot since BC and nobody was up in arms about that. Hell, while we're at it, scrap HOLY plate too, and make H Pal heals scale with STR, so we can free up some more loot space on the table instead of wasting slots for ONE SPEC of ONE CLASS. /endrant.
    3) Leave the stats as is, but make dodge and parry grant haste as part of the prot bonus. This would allow us to choose "traditional" tank pieces, but not lose out on the plethora of excellent benefits of haste. Would be a VERY easy fix, as it allows keeping of all the same loot tables, AND it makes for some very interesting theorycrafting.
    4) No, really. Leave it alone.

    But hey, if you really want to keep lobbying to remove the one unique, fun and visceral thing we have going, you would probably get along well with this guy:

    Quote Originally Posted by hir0shima View Post
    im totally agaist haste stacking for tanks, no matter if they r paladins or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
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