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  1. #21
    Because then it would be a classic Catch 22 where people can't get PvP gear because it's not offered as a regular so it can never be upgraded. Heroics and PvP are not the same just to clear that up for op.

  2. #22
    Brewmaster slackjawsix's Avatar
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    this has to be one of the dumbest questions on mmo champ, im sorry but where else would someone else get pvp gear other than requiring them to buy it
    i live by one motto! "lolwut?"

  3. #23
    High Overlord Tazienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleinlax21 View Post
    Random BG's = Quest content
    War Games = Scenarios/Normal Dungeons/LFR
    Arenas = Heroic Dungeons/10 Man Raids
    RBG's = Heroic Dungeons/25 Man Raids

    Guys, stop acting like Random BG's are equivalent to PvE group content where coordination and structure is necessary, because that's just not the case.
    Actually, random BGs are more like normal 5 man dungeons where you tend to have 1 or 2 guys who are less than average skills, have trouble listening, have crap gear/talents/etc, and are really just wasted space. Problem is that in a BG, you have 10 or 15 total people, which means between 2-6 morons on your team. And since its random, you never know and the opposing team has the same deal so you notice when your team has the 6 idiots and theirs has the 2, but not when its the other way around because, hey, you won, what else matters.

    The solution would be something more like quest content where you could get starter PVP gear. Crafting is okay, but as people have said, server economies vary greatly. On my server, the plate pieces are super cheap, but leather is 800 a slot. And its just silly to burn thousands of gold on gear that is only equivalent to the PVE stuff that comes from quest lines or quick dungeon runs.

    I don't have a clue what the starter PVP stuff could come from, but that's not my job to figure out either, its Blizz's. Our job is just to keep letting them know that the crafting solution isn't a very good one.
    TAZI-BEAR ... da Beast


  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Dabrix32 View Post
    OK if they have ilvl requirements for Raids and Heroics why the hell dont they have pvp gear requirements for BGs? So sick of doing randoms and 75% of my team is in leveling blues and greens. Then when a Horde class obliterates me I look a few of them up and they are all full 2/2 Malev. Why arent their gear requirements for BGs? Its been like this every single expansion. You enter BGs and sweet my whole team in PvE gear. Then you see the horde. Awesome they are all in full tier 2 PvP gear.
    its simple really normal and lfr and 5 man heroics = the farm/casual field

    rbg arena normal raid heroic raids challengemode= competive fields

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    Because in PvE you can quest to at least get the bare minimum to enter normal dungeons then using normal dungeons to gear for heroic dungeons, so on and so forth, up to LFR.
    --
    In PvP, you have to enter a BG to get the honor to get starter PvP gear and after that is conquest points.
    --
    now I know people can just farm dungeons for justice then convert to honor but that method takes 5x's longer than just running a few random BG's, the game is tailored for convenience, plus random BG's aren't that important.

    And when your pvp gear has better stats then the green /blues from questing? so now i have to equip lesser gear and lose dps /hps /survival because you cant look at the stats?


    PS: Not talking to you, I quoted in response to most common retards that vote kick players in pvp gear and fail to see that these players have better gear then themselves.
    I am not saying that you are a retard, i am saying that people that fail to see that PVP gear is better them green/blue quest items are.
    Bad - This is a bad player, he refuses to learn how to play correctly.
    Casual - This is a player that will let everything else take priority over wow.
    Hardcore - This is a player that is fine with putting things on hold while he's on wow.
    Bad/Good - Measure of Skill.
    Casual/Hardcore - Measure of Time

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeperxi View Post
    I love how this double standard in thinking goes and has been around forever.

    PVE person enters BG in full PVE gear. Gets detroyed, doesnt help the team, doesnt know what they are doing. Their excuse is always "Well how am I supposed to get PvP gear then?" Ok, so how about I group up for a dungeon, heroic or raid with my full PvP set..and my excuse can be "How else am I supposed to get PvE gear?"

    Seems PvE people think its acceptable for them to enter PvP with no gear, but have a PvP person join their PvE run with PvP gear and watch out! Kick'em! He has PvP gear..it's BS

    Easy answer to those in PvE gear wanting to run PvP...before to go into a BG at the very least go buy the crafted pieces from the AH, at least you'll have something to start out with. People who don't do this are just plain lazy.

    put on your quest greens and blues without resilience crap on it and you are fine.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 08:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Etna View Post
    And when your pvp gear has better stats then the green /blues from questing? so now i have to equip lesser gear and lose dps /hps /survival because you cant look at the stats?


    PS: Not talking to you, I quoted in response to most common retards that vote kick players in pvp gear and fail to see that these players have better gear then themselves.
    I am not saying that you are a retard, i am saying that people that fail to see that PVP gear is better them green/blue quest items are.
    They are not better when you waste a shitload of your item budget on pvp only stats.

  7. #27
    Field Marshal Nickghost's Avatar
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    Blizzard should implement role and gear check for bg's so that each team has the equal amount of healers and there is no huge gear difference. This would make BG's much more fun.

  8. #28
    I only have 1 toon so i didn't have alts to mooch off of. MY server (Smolderthorn-US) is a dead server everything is overpriced and that's the main reason why i changed my professions to JC and enchanting, rather than paying 2,000g for a meta gem or 1,500g for an enchant. You cant expect just because someone made a ton of gold questing from 85-90 to be able to spend the ridiculous amount of gold require to get terrible PvP gear that will be replaced in 2 days. My gold after dinging 90 went to Pandaria flying and getting my professions maxed which is a helluva lot more important than buy temporary gear for PvP.
    --
    The common knowledge of random BG's (at least for me) is; no matter how much i suck i will still get honor and is therefore getting me "that" much closer to being able to purchase an honor piece. It just makes more sense to just grind the 2-3 days worth of random BG's rather than drop 2000g + for temporary gear.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeperxi View Post
    I love how this double standard in thinking goes and has been around forever.

    PVE person enters BG in full PVE gear. Gets detroyed, doesnt help the team, doesnt know what they are doing. Their excuse is always "Well how am I supposed to get PvP gear then?" Ok, so how about I group up for a dungeon, heroic or raid with my full PvP set..and my excuse can be "How else am I supposed to get PvE gear?"

    Seems PvE people think its acceptable for them to enter PvP with no gear, but have a PvP person join their PvE run with PvP gear and watch out! Kick'em! He has PvP gear..it's BS

    Easy answer to those in PvE gear wanting to run PvP...before to go into a BG at the very least go buy the crafted pieces from the AH, at least you'll have something to start out with. People who don't do this are just plain lazy.
    outdated pvp gear in a raid isn't on the same level as undergeared in a random bg, if you want equivalent example its 5man vs random bg
    Stormspellz -mugthol
    Battletag - Stormz#1438

  10. #30
    but if its your team in full pvp T2, and the opposition in leveling gear, I bet you don't mind then....

    Also fine, lets introduce a requirement to get in, 458 pvp ilvl would have to be the minimal, if you wanted pvp gear to have a separate ilvl, and using current gear, that be your only choice,

    Now, that means everyone in the BG is in blue pvp gear or better, good to a point,

    But PVP ques instantly go up in wait time causing QQ, start of expansion packs blue pvp gear soars in price on low servers due to no competition, people QQ, high pop servers their cheap as chips and not worth making because of competition, people QQ

    Also, if this system was introduced, then you'd have to prohibit using PVP ilvl to get into LFD / LFR, now I'm not saying you do, but the general pvp population do use their pvp gear to get in, and that fucks me off, but I don't complain because I go into BGs with pve gear

    It works both ways

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    I only have 1 toon so i didn't have alts to mooch off of. MY server (Smolderthorn-US) is a dead server everything is overpriced and that's the main reason why i changed my professions to JC and enchanting, rather than paying 2,000g for a meta gem or 1,500g for an enchant. You cant expect just because someone made a ton of gold questing from 85-90 to be able to spend the ridiculous amount of gold require to get terrible PvP gear that will be replaced in 2 days. My gold after dinging 90 went to Pandaria flying and getting my professions maxed which is a helluva lot more important than buy temporary gear for PvP.

    The common knowledge of random BG's (at least for me) is; no matter how much i suck i will still get honor and is therefore getting me "that" much closer to being able to purchase an honor piece. It just makes more sense to just grind the 2-3 days worth of random BG's rather than drop 2000g + for temporary gear.
    God forbid you actually befriend someone who has a crafting profession (WoW is a MMO ). Even if you hate making friends you can still spend like 5 minutes in /2 looking for BS/LW/Tailor.

    To make it simple since you (and many others) are having a hard time with it.

    Blacksmithing: Full set = 69 Ghost iron bars = 138 ghost iron ore.

    Leatherworking (leather): Full set = 132 exotic leather.

    Leatherworking (mail): Full set = 132 prismatic scale.

    Tailoring: Full set = 34 bolt of windwool cloth = 170 windwool cloth.

    1 Spirit of Harmony = 20 ghost iron ore = 10 bars / 20 exotic leather / 20 prismatic scale / 20 windwool cloth.

    SO..... for a full set of gear you would need a whopping.


    7 spirits for plate gear.
    7 spirits for leather/mail gear.
    9 spirits for cloth gear. (in reality you could probably get well over the 170 cloth just by leveling)

    By just questing you would probably get a minimum of 6 spirits. You don't need any alts or gathering professions, but if you have them then you don't even need to use spirits.

    I sell almost every contender piece (cloth/mail/leather/plate) on AH. I over price the shit out of them because people are to lazy to farm the mats for themselves. If you are complaining about the price on the AH then stop being lazy.

  12. #32
    Just make 2 different brackets. Less than and greater than 7k resil. Make a way that people can't equip full pve gear to get into the lower bracket and stomp people. GG.

  13. #33
    Epic! schwank05's Avatar
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    I was in full PVE raid gear when I started doing BG's this season around 480 ilvl. Guess what I rolled people often not dying more than 2 times in a match. So it is more based on skill than it is on gear, I still only have a 4 set and do just fine at random's.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeperxi View Post
    Seems PvE people think its acceptable for them to enter PvP with no gear, but have a PvP person join their PvE run with PvP gear and watch out! Kick'em! He has PvP gear..it's BS
    Random battlegrounds are entry level PvP content. You're comparing organized PvE with disorganized, random PvP. No one's going to complain if you're in an LFR with PvP gear. If you know what you're doing, you can still perform very competitively in LFR. But don't expect someone to be cool with you wanting to be a part of their organized PvE session in PvP gear.

    Likewise, I wouldn't possible join someone's rated battleground or arena team without PvP gear. But I'll BG all day in my PvE gear if I want to.

    There's literally zero equivalence in your claims of double standards.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 08:59 PM ----------

    That being said, crafted blue PvP gear is cheap as hell this go around, so my fresh level capped characters get full sets of it from the start. They're a nice PvE boost compared to quest greens anyway.
    HEAVIEST: 361 lbs.
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    GOAL: Healthy 185 by end of 2014.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitond View Post
    God forbid you actually befriend someone who has a crafting profession (WoW is a MMO ). Even if you hate making friends you can still spend like 5 minutes in /2 looking for BS/LW/Tailor.

    To make it simple since you (and many others) are having a hard time with it.

    Blacksmithing: Full set = 69 Ghost iron bars = 138 ghost iron ore.

    Leatherworking (leather): Full set = 132 exotic leather.

    Leatherworking (mail): Full set = 132 prismatic scale.

    Tailoring: Full set = 34 bolt of windwool cloth = 170 windwool cloth.

    1 Spirit of Harmony = 20 ghost iron ore = 10 bars / 20 exotic leather / 20 prismatic scale / 20 windwool cloth.

    SO..... for a full set of gear you would need a whopping.


    7 spirits for plate gear.
    7 spirits for leather/mail gear.
    9 spirits for cloth gear. (in reality you could probably get well over the 170 cloth just by leveling)

    By just questing you would probably get a minimum of 6 spirits. You don't need any alts or gathering professions, but if you have them then you don't even need to use spirits.

    I sell almost every contender piece (cloth/mail/leather/plate) on AH. I over price the shit out of them because people are to lazy to farm the mats for themselves. If you are complaining about the price on the AH then stop being lazy.
    I'm not complaining about the price per say...you accuse me of being lazy for not wanting to farm for mats/gold to have the Contender's set made/bought, but im farming one way or the other. Why pay for something when you can grind it quickly and for free? Its a whole lot easier to just grind random BG's for 2-3 days to get full dreadful rather than sink a ton of time/gold into something that will be replaced in 3 days.
    Last edited by Ellmist; 2013-01-24 at 09:19 PM. Reason: Missed key points

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitond View Post
    God forbid you actually befriend someone who has a crafting profession (WoW is a MMO ). Even if you hate making friends you can still spend like 5 minutes in /2 looking for BS/LW/Tailor.

    To make it simple since you (and many others) are having a hard time with it.

    Blacksmithing: Full set = 69 Ghost iron bars = 138 ghost iron ore.

    Leatherworking (leather): Full set = 132 exotic leather.

    Leatherworking (mail): Full set = 132 prismatic scale.

    Tailoring: Full set = 34 bolt of windwool cloth = 170 windwool cloth.

    1 Spirit of Harmony = 20 ghost iron ore = 10 bars / 20 exotic leather / 20 prismatic scale / 20 windwool cloth.

    SO..... for a full set of gear you would need a whopping.


    7 spirits for plate gear.
    7 spirits for leather/mail gear.
    9 spirits for cloth gear. (in reality you could probably get well over the 170 cloth just by leveling)

    By just questing you would probably get a minimum of 6 spirits. You don't need any alts or gathering professions, but if you have them then you don't even need to use spirits.

    I sell almost every contender piece (cloth/mail/leather/plate) on AH. I over price the shit out of them because people are to lazy to farm the mats for themselves. If you are complaining about the price on the AH then stop being lazy.
    seeing as teh crafted gear is really no better then quest greens at this point, it really doesn't matter how cheap you could potentially get the gear for, the time spent making the crafted set would be better spent in a bg.
    Stormspellz -mugthol
    Battletag - Stormz#1438

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellmist View Post
    I'm not complaining about the price per say...you accuse me of being lazy for not wanting to farm for mats/gold to have the Contender's set made/bought, but im farming one way or the other. Why pay for something when you can grind it quickly and for free? Its a whole lot easier to just grind random BG's for 2-3 days to get full dreadful rather than sink a ton of time/gold into something that will be replaced in 3 days.
    Plus...I am an officer in a guild with 200+ members, many with maxed BS (Im a Ret Pally). if i wanted someone to make me a contenders set i can get it but like i said before, its a waste of time to spend time/gold on something i will repalce after running random BG's for 2-3 days.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post

    They are not better when you waste a shitload of your item budget on pvp only stats.
    Do you realize in MoP that pvp stats no longer take any of the item budget? Know the game before you spread misinformation.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    put on your quest greens and blues without resilience crap on it and you are fine.

    They are not better when you waste a shitload of your item budget on pvp only stats.
    How about you actually learn the game before spouting nonsense? PvP gear has a lower ilevel in general then comparable PvE gear but PvP stats are completly free by now. So the upgraded honor set is better then the heroic dungeon stuff, for PvE that is. 466 > 463

  20. #40
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Sorry but no. Random BG's are the equivalent of Dungeons/LFR and not quest content. Putting in War Games just so you have something else to match it up against is ridiculous. Wargames are the most arsine thing ever to be introduced into WoW and hardly anybody ever does them.


    Ilevel 450 crafted gear. 463 gear from dungeons, it's bad but far better then leveling greens. Tol Barad and Wintergrasp.
    Ok, so War Games suck. Fair enough. However, why do you think Random BG's are equal to organized, structured group content? Random BG's are the first step in the PvP progression ladder, and as the first possible step, there can't be any item level requirements because it's the first place (excluding professions) that gear can be obtained. SO, because Blizzard has never based mandatory item level requirements on available crafted gear, I don't see any justification to implement such a design that would force players to meet an item level requirement ONLY through crafted gear.

    Also, as BG's are the first tier of the PvP progression ladder, they definitely do not equate to LFR, which is the fourth tier of PvE progression, behind questing content, Scenarios, Normal Dungeons, and Heroic Dungeons. Also, as questing content is the first tier of PvE progression, it's much more relatable from a design perspective. Anyone who's looking to get into PvP is going to queue up for that first battleground and look for an accessible experience, just like you can jump into questing content at any time and progress at our own pace. Battlegrounds are very similar to questing (scenarios as well)in this manner, and the queuing system reflects this in its bare simplicity and focus on getting players into a battleground as fast as possible.

    You don't seem to realize the primary intent of Battlegrounds, which is to usher people into WoW's PvP environment. It's not to provide us experienced players with an environment of professional players who are focused on objective play and maximizing honor. It's all about providing the ideal entry level experience, and to get new players coming back for more. Your proposal of adding item level requirements runs completely contrary to Blizzard's design intent for the Random Battlegrounds system.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-24 at 09:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazienne View Post
    Actually, random BGs are more like normal 5 man dungeons where you tend to have 1 or 2 guys who are less than average skills, have trouble listening, have crap gear/talents/etc, and are really just wasted space. Problem is that in a BG, you have 10 or 15 total people, which means between 2-6 morons on your team. And since its random, you never know and the opposing team has the same deal so you notice when your team has the 6 idiots and theirs has the 2, but not when its the other way around because, hey, you won, what else matters.

    The solution would be something more like quest content where you could get starter PVP gear. Crafting is okay, but as people have said, server economies vary greatly. On my server, the plate pieces are super cheap, but leather is 800 a slot. And its just silly to burn thousands of gold on gear that is only equivalent to the PVE stuff that comes from quest lines or quick dungeon runs.

    I don't have a clue what the starter PVP stuff could come from, but that's not my job to figure out either, its Blizz's. Our job is just to keep letting them know that the crafting solution isn't a very good one.
    I suggested it could come from quest content in the Dread Wastes or another equivalent zone near max level. That way, players could begin to choose to gear up in PvP gear or PvE gear instead of solely offering PvE gear as they currently do.
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