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  1. #1
    Grunt Trixxs's Avatar
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    Cool Combat rogues have lost too much.

    When I look at Combat rogues in the past I was a real swashbuckler, now I don't not one bit.


    Here is why,


    Riposte has been removed, but blizzard gave us a baseline disarm that does no damage and does not increase attack speed.
    Overall a moot change but we can live with it.


    Unfair Advantage has been taken out of combat and given to monks, now this is what really got me upset. This was a really good talent for both PvP and PvE and they gave it to the monks. In case you guys don't know what it did,

    Unfair Advantage: Whenever you dodged and attack you instantly strike the enemy target.

    They only difference with monks is that whenever they parry an attack they instantly strike the enemy target.



    Surprise attacks has been scrapped, this also got me kind of upset but at the same time it would work by just being expertise capped so not crazy about the change.


    Nerves of Steel: This one was a huge let down because it was our only source of survive ability in stuns/fears.


    Reinforced leather, this was also a huge let down how they took this out and made it so we get Growl for a druid's symbiosis and in return the druid gets feint so unless you are doing 2s with a druid you won't be getting symbiosis anytime soon, oh and also not to mention the growl is a 2 min CD.

    and lastly


    Blade twisting, With this my target pretty much never got away from me, ever. The bug with Deadly Brew our 4 piece PvP bonus Crippling poison does not apply more often than it should. This one really got me upset



    Thanks for reading.


    PS: This is my first post on MMOCHAMP forums

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Trixxs View Post
    Riposte has been removed, but blizzard gave us a baseline disarm that does no damage and does not increase attack speed.
    Overall a moot change but we can live with it.
    I like how in our mind "classic " riposte amd "wotlk" riposte is the same ability.
    Besides riposte never increased your attack speed. Till pre-wotlk patch it disarmed target (for 6 sec only, after you parried incoming attack), after that - it awarded 1 cp and slowed enemy's melee attack speed. Required investment into deflection (6 or 4 pts, prior or after pre-wotlk patch) and your parry chance was capped @10%. Had no use against casters and hunters.
    Not in the game since pre-cata patch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trixxs View Post
    Unfair Advantage has been taken out of combat and given to monks, now this is what really got me upset. This was a really good talent for both PvP and PvE and they gave it to the monks. In case you guys don't know what it did,
    Wotlk talent. To get one you have to sacrifice one of those - vitality, savage combat, nerves of steel, combat potency. No use against casters.
    Not in the game since pre-cata patch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trixxs View Post
    They only difference with monks is that whenever they parry an attack they instantly strike the enemy target.
    It's actually big difference, because dodge can be modified by agility, and parry not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trixxs View Post
    Surprise attacks has been scrapped, this also got me kind of upset but at the same time it would work by just being expertise capped so not crazy about the change.
    Not in the game since pre-cata patch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trixxs View Post
    Nerves of Steel: This one was a huge let down because it was our only source of survive ability in stuns/fears.
    Not in the game since pre-cata patch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trixxs View Post
    Reinforced leather, this was also a huge let down how they took this out and made it so we get Growl for a druid's symbiosis and in return the druid gets feint so unless you are doing 2s with a druid you won't be getting symbiosis anytime soon, oh and also not to mention the growl is a 2 min CD.
    Growl is 3 min cd.
    Reinforced leather was cata talent. I'm completely confused, you never had all those talents at once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trixxs View Post
    and lastly
    Blade twisting, With this my target pretty much never got away from me, ever. The bug with Deadly Brew our 4 piece PvP bonus Crippling poison does not apply more often than it should. This one really got me upset
    Talent existed since tbc till cata. Was kinda shitty in tbc (20% chance on sinister strike).

    So, in conclusion, you missing 4 of of WoTLK talents, 1 classic talent and 2 cata talents? And you could have all of them (except reinforced leather) only during WoTLK.

    You trying to say that really missing WoTLK PvP combat rogue?
    Last edited by Mazius; 2013-01-24 at 11:02 PM.

  3. #3
    ^
    Wrecked.. Not even a little

  4. #4
    The Patient HeroZero's Avatar
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    After reading this I feel like watching a bear fight a house cat.

    But I see no flaws in Mazius' logic.

  5. #5
    Grunt Trixxs's Avatar
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    1. when you slow someone else's attack speed you increase it

    2. I never said it was a big difference I just said "The only difference"

    3. Why does it matter if it wasn't in the game since pre-cata patch?

    4. Blade twisting was not bad when it proc'd your target would never even leave your feet unless they do their mobility talents (Blink, etc.)


    5. I'm not saying I miss wotlk pvp as a combat rogue im saying I miss being a swashbuckler.

  6. #6
    lol Who wants to be a "swashbuckler" anyway?

    http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2723650560/tt0075294

    On topic: Yeah, they trimmed down all the trees, not just Combat. I play Combat in PvP and do okay, but it's never really been designed as a PvP spec. Thank your lucky starts you get Shadowstep, Shuriken Toss, and soon to have Prep. With those tools and burst cooldowns, you should be fine. Riposte was fairly stupid anyway. Blade Twisting is directly replaced by the Glyph of Debilitation, which does the same exact thing.

  7. #7
    I just miss my difference in playstyle between specs. Not even the amount of finishers is different. Who in their right mind would design three different ways to do passive damage, but make them all almost the same damagewise. And this passive dmg composition is your differentiator between specs?

  8. #8
    One talent I miss the most is Waylay in Sub tree. Wish they introduced it back somehow as a talent or glyph somehow. Also, anyone remember Ghostly Strike?

  9. #9
    Warchief Ron Burgundy's Avatar
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    wtf - when was riposte removed?



    i was a vanilla rogue and that ability was BALLA
    Milk was a bad choice.

    2013 MMO-Champion User of the Year (2nd runner up)

  10. #10
    <3 your first post.

    All of these things are issues close to my heart. Especially riposte.
    Last edited by Verain; 2013-01-25 at 05:35 AM.

  11. #11
    Combat has lost too much and no longer is a toe to toe spec.

  12. #12
    Rogues lost their burst and gain a bunch of passive effects we need to keep active and ticking instead.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by truevalon View Post
    Rogues lost their burst and gain a bunch of passive effects we need to keep active and ticking instead.
    Dmg has become too much passive while on the other hand defense has become too much active with the removal of reinforced leather, enveloping shadows, nerves of steel, deadened nerves, lightning reflexes and with our dodge nerfed to the ground...

  14. #14
    I am Murloc! Tomatketchup's Avatar
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    I miss Riposte. And Ghostly Strike.

    I MISS MY GHOSTLY RIPOSTE STRIKE SPEC THAT WAS USELESS FOR EVERYTHING
    Kalle Anka-partiet in i svenska riksdagen 2014!

    Can't fake the feelin'~

  15. #15
    High Overlord Trisrx's Avatar
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    I think your 100% correct, and I have been saying the same thing about ret paladins recently. I had forgotten all those things rogues lost. I guess the problem goes beyond one class or spec, and is the result of blizzard homogenizing and simplifying the game to the point of it being very bland. So many interesting/unusual abilities and systems have been scrapped for standardized models. How unfortunate. Who knows, maybe we can still get them to reverse this boring course they have taken.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Trisrx View Post
    I think your 100% correct, and I have been saying the same thing about ret paladins recently. I had forgotten all those things rogues lost. I guess the problem goes beyond one class or spec, and is the result of blizzard homogenizing and simplifying the game to the point of it being very bland. So many interesting/unusual abilities and systems have been scrapped for standardized models. How unfortunate. Who knows, maybe we can still get them to reverse this boring course they have taken.
    As long as GC works on wow that's not gonna happen

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomatketchup View Post
    I miss Riposte. And Ghostly Strike.

    I MISS MY GHOSTLY RIPOSTE STRIKE SPEC THAT WAS USELESS FOR EVERYTHING
    No way that spec RULED

    SHARP was my favorite spec. Next patch will be the closest it's ever come to being reborn, but without ghostly and riposte it won't be the same. Like 0/41/21 + a few points. Double evasion, and each evasion was offensive against melee. Double improved sprint so you'd have a chance against casters. Adren rush, of course. Was great, very oily kind of spec and front loaded.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 05:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    As long as GC works on wow that's not gonna happen
    I doubt very much GC comes to work each day, sipping a latte, saying "let's boring up this game"! He's actually done the most to communicate the game balance / homogenization see-saw and how choosing any position on that is going to piss off some section of the playerbase.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    I doubt very much GC comes to work each day, sipping a latte, saying "let's boring up this game"! He's actually done the most to communicate the game balance / homogenization see-saw and how choosing any position on that is going to piss off some section of the playerbase.
    I'm not saying is goal is to to make the game boring, his goal is clearly to make the game appealing to the largest playerbase possibile (for obvious reasons) but you know it's hard to make a game that appeals both the casual 12yr old kid and the experienced 20-30yr old gamer who started playing in 2005.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    No way that spec RULED

    SHARP was my favorite spec. Next patch will be the closest it's ever come to being reborn, but without ghostly and riposte it won't be the same. Like 0/41/21 + a few points. Double evasion, and each evasion was offensive against melee. Double improved sprint so you'd have a chance against casters. Adren rush, of course. Was great, very oily kind of spec and front loaded.[COLOR="red"]
    Personally i feel like the main benefit of SHARP was double AR + BF which is no longer the case.

    And as much as i miss riposte / ghostly strike they were useless outside of pvp and a few rare fights in pve, i'd honestly would be happier if rogues got a 4th tanking spec, since we already established that you don't need a) block b) plate gear to be a tank (and because fuck monks stealing all cool stuff from us)

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by D3athsting View Post
    I'm not saying is goal is to to make the game boring, his goal is clearly to make the game appealing to the largest playerbase possibile (for obvious reasons) but you know it's hard to make a game that appeals both the casual 12yr old kid and the experienced 20-30yr old gamer who started playing in 2005.
    the casual 12yr old kid is not a problem, since those usually get bored early and never get to max level.

    the problem you're thinking about are 47yr old casuals with a wife, 3 kids and a job. he can't put too much effort into learning to play, so he needs the game to be easier.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

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