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  1. #1

    Shuriken Toss Proccing Poisons is a Bug?

    "Worth mentioning: Shuriken Toss shouldn't be proccing poisons." - Daxxari (Source: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...at-out-broken/)

    So, does he mean proccing utility poisons or all poisons? Also, does this apply to solely to ST or also to the auto-attack buff that's procced?

    Until clarification, I'm assuming all poisons, and removing poison procs from the auto-attack buff. I can see a case for not proccing utility poisons for PvP balance (not that I agree, but it's not inarguable), but if it doesn't proc damaging poisons that cuts this right out, even situational uses, in PvE (at least for Assassination). That's quite disconcerting....
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    The truth of the matter is, you have no proof for this and are just generating facts.

  2. #2
    If ST doesn't proc poisons, fuck that move, and fuck the only cool and useful talent we got in Cata.

    Given that GC just finished balancing ST around the poison procs (that's why it went 80 to 75), I have no idea what he's talking about. ST has procced poisons since its inception, taking that away is fucking terrible.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 12:31 AM ----------

    And in general- I haven't been able to get in an RBG at 90. Hunters and Warriors all got 2200 weapons for logging the fuck on early this season. Without the ability to really boost my pvp stuff with pve anything, I'm essentially permanently behind. Making these seasons so sticky is really terrible design, and I'm hoping to be OP enough to get back to neutral next season. Not balanced- I need to be overpowered to make up for how goddamned behind I am right now. That might be bad game design, but warriors are more overpowered now than ANY class has EVER been on live- that's a fact with numbers backing it. And I need catch-up if I'm supposed to compete with their big giant two handed 2200 dicks. I'm getting smashed by warriors that pummel and disrupting shout me during 3s.

    Rogue Reparations needed lololololol


    Or, failing that, balance the game in such a way that pvp gear isn't so goddamned brutal to fall behind on. I've played every week this season, and it's been hell.
    Last edited by Verain; 2013-01-25 at 02:14 AM.

  3. #3
    From reading through that thread, the idea from those opposed to it proccing poisons seems to stem from gaining stacks of Paralytic poison from range, giving rogues too much control over both melee (where they can be kited 'forevar') and casters (where we gain too much damage uptime).

    I do agree that they'll be taking away the only unique and fun thing they've given rogues this entire expansion, and if this change is confirmed it completely neuters that ability. I'll admit that reading what Draxx wrote gave me a second (or third, or eighteenth) glance at changing to another class after 5 years of being a rogue. It's not cool continuing expac after expac to get no interesting things to play with. Between that, and how ham-handedly Anticipation charges / Bandit's Guile (and to a lesser extent Shadowdance) functions within their UI...

    Last edited by SynergyDarkstar; 2013-01-25 at 12:33 AM. Reason: clarity
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    The truth of the matter is, you have no proof for this and are just generating facts.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by SynergyDarkstar View Post
    From reading through that thread, the idea from those opposed to it proccing poisons seems to stem from gaining stacks of Paralytic poison from range, giving rogues too much control over both melee (where they can be kited 'forevar') and casters (where we gain too much damage uptime).
    Whatever, that's redic. We can do that now, and it doesn't stack fast. Plus all melee have some dumb trick to close gaps on a short cooldown anyway.

    Seems redic. Why even change the move if they are going to shit all over it? Why not leave it like it is? Is it an issue on live, with rogues at their sub-2% rep?

  5. #5
    Preemptive damage control, I recon. They're getting rid of a problem before it actually becomes one, even though... Well.. It may not?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    If ST doesn't proc poisons, fuck that move, and fuck the only cool and useful talent we got in Cata.

    Given that GC just finished balancing ST around the poison procs (that's why it went 80 to 75), I have no idea what he's talking about. ST has procced poisons since its inception, taking that away is fucking terrible.[COLOR="red"]
    This is what's confusing me.

    They stated outright they changed the ST damage because of poisons. O_o

  7. #7
    paralytic poison was a bad idea from the start this whole expansion is so fk bad for rogues i dont even want to play this game anymore
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues in MoP:

    -Reroll another class, who wants rougue's anyway.
    -Diablo 3 Sold 15 Million Copys
    -Haste will fix it
    -Rogue's are fine

  8. #8
    Daxxari just corrected himself. It procs damaging poisons, but it shouldn't proc non-lethal poisons.

  9. #9
    Well, that also means it sucks. But whatever, it's better than the other option.

    It's probably inevitable now that it creates autoattacks. It would be nice if the actual SHURIKEN THROW yellow hit could do poisons like on live. The white hits doing autoattacks does sound like a bit much.

  10. #10
    ST on live is the most popular for PVP while Anticipation is the most popular in PVE. I suspect their goal is to create parity by having people move away from ST for PVP (by taking away the procs of non lethal poisons) while enticing players in PVE to pick it up.

    Unfortunately, what in theory looks good on paper may not turn out to work out in reality. Most PVE players will still take Anticipation, and if non lethal poisons don't proc from ST more than likely most PVP players will opt for...Anticipation. So Blizzard is once again in a conundrum when it comes to the level 90 tier.

  11. #11
    I think the problem is that letting rogues have a 30 yard range autoattack or whatever gets absurd if that procs cripple. The issue is- you can't snare like you can on live.

  12. #12
    Plus you can use ST while disarmed. So you could silence a caster or disarm a hunter and outkite them for instance which is... crazy to say the least.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    I think the problem is that letting rogues have a 30 yard range autoattack or whatever gets absurd if that procs cripple. The issue is- you can't snare like you can on live.
    As far as crip and mind numbing go they can have 100% up time on live from st adding auto attacks doesn't really change its up time with there high proc chance. The only poison that gained something off this st change was paralytic. If something is to be removed from st its that poison why should all non lethals get screwed if paralytic is the problem?

    As others have said if this change happens most everyone pvp and pve will go Anticipation or MfD. A little extra dmg on st isn't worth losing all utility from it terrible change.

  14. #14
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    ST on live is the most popular for PVP while Anticipation is the most popular in PVE. I suspect their goal is to create parity by having people move away from ST for PVP (by taking away the procs of non lethal poisons) while enticing players in PVE to pick it up.

    Unfortunately, what in theory looks good on paper may not turn out to work out in reality. Most PVE players will still take Anticipation, and if non lethal poisons don't proc from ST more than likely most PVP players will opt for...Anticipation. So Blizzard is once again in a conundrum when it comes to the level 90 tier.
    The trouble is, Anticipation is just too good. Now, I'm not one for nerfing abilites that function properly to give off the illusion of choice, so it seems to me that anticipation should be baselined and a new 90 talent takes it's place.

    Reasoning being I just cannot fathom what other choices they could put in that tier to give reasonable alternatives without them being direct dps increases or changing the class from something they have said they do not want to do. For example, a nice alternative would be simply that combo points stack on you rather than your target - players have asked for this for years, but Blizzard do not wish to implement it. Even if they did, I'm fairly sure this still could not compete, but it would make for a nice replacement.
    I am the lucid dream
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    If ST doesn't proc poisons, fuck that move, and fuck the only cool and useful talent we got in Cata.

    Given that GC just finished balancing ST around the poison procs (that's why it went 80 to 75), I have no idea what he's talking about. ST has procced poisons since its inception, taking that away is fucking terrible.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 12:31 AM ----------

    And in general- I haven't been able to get in an RBG at 90. Hunters and Warriors all got 2200 weapons for logging the fuck on early this season. Without the ability to really boost my pvp stuff with pve anything, I'm essentially permanently behind. Making these seasons so sticky is really terrible design, and I'm hoping to be OP enough to get back to neutral next season. Not balanced- I need to be overpowered to make up for how goddamned behind I am right now. That might be bad game design, but warriors are more overpowered now than ANY class has EVER been on live- that's a fact with numbers backing it. And I need catch-up if I'm supposed to compete with their big giant two handed 2200 dicks. I'm getting smashed by warriors that pummel and disrupting shout me during 3s.

    Rogue Reparations needed lololololol


    Or, failing that, balance the game in such a way that pvp gear isn't so goddamned brutal to fall behind on. I've played every week this season, and it's been hell.
    haven't you read what they are doing with pvp gear in next season? bassicly everything you are complaining about is being changed. you can join the season 10 weeks after the start, and get the same gear as those who started at the beginning within a single week if you are dedicated enough.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    The trouble is, Anticipation is just too good. Now, I'm not one for nerfing abilites that function properly to give off the illusion of choice, so it seems to me that anticipation should be baselined and a new 90 talent takes it's place.
    Especially since Paladins get 66% of Anticipation for nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightfist View Post
    The truth of the matter is, you have no proof for this and are just generating facts.

  17. #17
    The Patient Linneth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    The trouble is, Anticipation is just too good. Now, I'm not one for nerfing abilites that function properly to give off the illusion of choice, so it seems to me that anticipation should be baselined and a new 90 talent takes it's place.

    Reasoning being I just cannot fathom what other choices they could put in that tier to give reasonable alternatives without them being direct dps increases or changing the class from something they have said they do not want to do. For example, a nice alternative would be simply that combo points stack on you rather than your target - players have asked for this for years, but Blizzard do not wish to implement it. Even if they did, I'm fairly sure this still could not compete, but it would make for a nice replacement.
    Anticipation seems like an obvious new baseline/spec-specific UI mechanic if we ever get reworked. It has too much potential gameplay wise for anything else to come up close to it. It could allow us to combo finishers (example: SnD gets revamped so it gives 200% increased melee attack speed for a very short period of time; as Assassination you storage 10 combo points, use Envenom and then SnD for some crazy poison damage)

  18. #18
    Grunt Trixxs's Avatar
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    Anyone else kind of sad it just procs lethal poisons not both now?

    When it proc'd non lethal my paralytic poison was actually really useful.

    =(

  19. #19
    Draxx recants his "bug" bullshit, confirms ST is being nerfed because it is too powerful (or at least that is the dev opinion).

    It will still proc lethal, just not do the one thing you are taking the talent for. I suppose this is because no rogues take deadly throw. They really need to rebaseline that.

  20. #20
    Grunt Trixxs's Avatar
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    This may sound dumb but,


    Why not make Deadly throw baseline and replace the talent with Versatility?

    sounds fair to me

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