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  1. #21
    It should be replaced with a survival talent- one that is good against casters.

  2. #22
    It still procs lethal poisons just not the non-lethal ones. A rather large nerf imo... I loved the idea of being able to slow those pesky Mages and Hunters from distance. IDK about you guys but I'm gonna be taking Deadly Throw just because I hate being kited and the extra interrupt is dead sexy.

  3. #23
    So... Seeing as this effectively makes it a "dps-cooldown" without added PvP utility, it's essentially made redundant for PvP. And seeing as it's also immensely inferior to Anticipation for PvE, the skill in its entirety seems redundant and useless... What's the purpose of this ability again?!

    - It'll never be picked for PvP
    - It'll never be picked for PvE
    - It'll never be picked for solo'ing

    There's literally no real reason for us to pick it as a talent, apart from maybe role-playing. Some classes have some underwhelming level 90 talents, but this certainly takes the cake.

  4. #24
    well typical every ability they gives us that looks good gets nerfed to the ground, cause of pvp or a part of pvp that gets op rather than fixing it they just take the easy way out and make the ability useless, once gain we dont get to choose from abilities, we get the cookie cutter spec, wich well is what they are trying to avoid, just not with rogues.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Nosferato View Post
    well typical every ability they gives us that looks good gets nerfed to the ground, cause of pvp or a part of pvp that gets op rather than fixing it they just take the easy way out and make the ability useless, once gain we dont get to choose from abilities, we get the cookie cutter spec, wich well is what they are trying to avoid, just not with rogues.
    Uh what? This nerf only effects pvp. Getting non lethal poison procs on ST in PvE is irrelevant (and unless you have leeching, it won't be doing anything at all even if it did proc, and even though it won't proc it will still remain up there for a bit). So yeah a pvp buff got nerfed for pvp...

  6. #26
    Getting non lethal poison procs on ST in PvE is irrelevant
    Though we won't be getting heroic will of the emperor down any time soon due to losing two of our three top healers, I actually specced shuriken throw just so I could snare the second rage I didn't start next to. Since that's the only time I've taken ST in pve this whole tier, and it's for that exact reason, I would say that the nerf affects pve.

    - It'll never be picked for PvP
    I simply disagree with this though. The other two options, while not dead in pvp, are not going to help you versus any of the casters. This will force more rogues to take Deadly Throw, which will hurt rogue survival, but you'll still have your ranged snare because of that when you really need it. The ability to proc wound and autoattacks versus a mage 10 yards away is by no means to be underestimated, even post nerf. This nerf seems bad, but the move will probably still have a place.

  7. #27
    @Verain
    I'm very confused. I thought this change was made to make sure that you can't snare people from afar? Unless I've missed something; non-lethal poisons won't be applied. I.e. ST is changed to just granting you ranged auto attacks. I don't see how that's anymore helpful than 5 CP's on a 1min cooldown, or Anticipation.

    Applying Wound from afar seems very underwhelming, if that's all you're referring to?
    Last edited by Incineration; 2013-01-28 at 09:53 PM.

  8. #28
    Non lethals won't be applied. You'll still be able to gain CPs (and even spend them on a snare if you have deadly throw talented, which you might), and much more importantly, you'll be able to still attack with autos plus shuriken spam. That won't compete with a mage hard casting frostbolts, but it will still be like a literal 20% pvp damage boost versus comps that kite. Remember that you'll have both prep and a choice of a gap closer. The net effect will be that a rogue will spend much more of the fight at range than a warrior, but you'll be substantially more effective at range than one as well. Mage at 10 yards and 10% health won't be "hope my partner can kill him / die if this is solo", but instead "ok, fine, here comes the ninja stars". These will damage and do spell knockback from range.

    I mean, look at all the complaints about "passive damage". That's actually been one of the things holding us back- with a decent chunk of our damage from autoattacks, and with the inability to bring autoattacks to bear in a good chunk of pvp, we've had issues there. This removes one of the issues. I don't know whether it'll be great or not, but I don't think we should be opposed to Blizzard trying to make us more viable at range instead of just begging until we have warrior uptime.

  9. #29
    Oh, shit. I thought they removed the Throw->Shuriken aspect of the skill in favor of the auto attack->ranged aspect. If we can still throw Shurikens and gain CP's, disregard the comment above.

  10. #30
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    Isn't the last rogue talent tier about gaining CP? Then why complain about Shuriken Toss not proccing non-lethal poisons anymore? IMO It shouldn't even proc lethal poisons seeing as it should only be used to gain CP on down-time of your target.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    Isn't the last rogue talent tier about gaining CP? Then why complain about Shuriken Toss not proccing non-lethal poisons anymore? IMO It shouldn't even proc lethal poisons seeing as it should only be used to gain CP on down-time of your target.
    Probably something to do with the fact no one would take it if it was just cp's from range.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    Isn't the last rogue talent tier about gaining CP? Then why complain about Shuriken Toss not proccing non-lethal poisons anymore? IMO It shouldn't even proc lethal poisons seeing as it should only be used to gain CP on down-time of your target.
    Your O is pretty uninformed. But you probably think rogues are fine on live. Maybe you even play in the brackets low enough that you see them.

  13. #33
    Shuriken Toss imho has been always been a sort of gap-closer for PvP.

    The biggest problem is not how much damage ST can do or what poisons ST can proc - the problem is that our PvE mechanic are based on something that's completely useless in PvP and viceversa.

    The best talent coming with 5.2 is MfD - burst on demand and a powerful tool to switch targets. Still, the ability to do some damage at range and eventually a snare/silence with Deadly Throw is extremely valuable.
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  14. #34
    What's MfD? My mind auto-expands that to My f***ing Dagger, which isn't really helping.
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    Oh, shit. I thought they removed the Throw->Shuriken aspect of the skill in favor of the auto attack->ranged aspect. If we can still throw Shurikens and gain CP's, disregard the comment above.
    No, it retains it's current functionality minus nonlethal poisons and gains the 10s auto-Shuriken when beyond 10 yards. That's all.

  15. #35
    MfD = Marked for Death. Sorry but acrnoysms are sometimes obscure.
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  16. #36
    Why couldn't they just compromise with Shuriken Toss working with all kinds of poisons cept with lower proc chance?

  17. #37
    I am Murloc! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    What's MfD? My mind auto-expands that to My f***ing Dagger, which isn't really helping.
    Marked for Death - the new level 90 talent which replaces Versatility.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    MfD = Marked for Death. Sorry but acrnoysms are sometimes obscure.

    NO NO he has it right.

    It is totally "My Fucking Dagger".

    Used in a sentence:


    "I shadowstepped over to the healer, then used My Fucking Dagger to drop him into a six second stun."



    PERFECT

  19. #39
    I would kill to have an ability labeled "My Fucking Dagger"!
    THE POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS!!!

  20. #40
    What would be even better is if it read in the combat log as "The Rogue's Fucking Dagger"

    The Rogue's Fucking Dagger hits you for 80631 (906 Overkill)

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