Prominent bioethicist suggests "fat shaming" to curb obesity

[Deadvolcanoes]

http://todayhealth.today.com/_news/2...cist-says?lite

Daniel Callahan recently wrote an article discussing his frustrations with the current solutions aimed at reducing obesity, and the lack of success.

He believes a new approach involving social pressure, or "fat shaming," could help. He cites the recent success that social pressure had in greatly reducing the number of smokers.

He believes that posing some uncomfortable questions might help, such as:

-If you are overweight or obese, are you pleased with the way you look?

-Are you happy that your added weight has made many ordinary activities, such as walking up a long fight of stairs, harder?

-Would you prefer to lessen your risk of heart disease and diabetes?

-Are you aware that, once you gain a signifcant amount of weight, your chances of taking that weight back off and keeping it off are poor?

-Are you pleased when your obese children are called “fatty” or otherwise teased at school?

-Fair or not, do you know that many people look down upon those excessively overweight or obese, often in fact discriminating against them and making fun of them or calling them lazy and lacking in self-control?

Honestly, after reading the NBC article, I thought it was a terrible idea. Then I read his actual paper, and I think his ideas, while slightly radical, just might help.

It's an interesting read, and can be found here:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1.../hast.114/full

Do you believe social pressure could help reduce obesity?

[Spectral]

I'm fully on board with fat shaming, I don't think it's done nearly enough. All the fat acceptance bullshit in the US hurts us as a country. I didn't realize how significant the stigma on obesity in other countries was until I spent a couple years dating a Korean woman; there's a reason there's almost no obese people in Korea.

Hell, I'm in favor of asking basically everyone the same sorts of questions. It's a lot easier for me to pound out a few more reps if I think, "do you like your arms as they currently are?" or to dig deep for another mile when I think "are you happy with the times you're running?".

edit - I think "shaming" is probably not a great term.

[Buttfear]

I think social pressure could be leveraged to help a large number of issues.

On topic, I have no problem calling fatties out for their irresponsible behavior.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

There isn't already social pressure on fat people?

[Kaleredar]

Social pressure can do anything, might as well turn it towards something helpful for once.

It's important, however, to make sure it can be "constructive," instead of just causing people to wallow in self pity... seeing as that wont do anything.

[narzinor]

I do not think that social shunning will have much of an effect unless it starts at an early age. I think telling a 2 year old that being fat is not a good thing is vastly different, and will have a drastically different effect than telling a 50 year old the same thing.

Personally, I don't care either way. It's not my body, and I don't care how someone else wants to do with theirs, but if this "shunning" was to become the norm, then I don't think it would hurt I suppose.

[Spectral]

I agree also, but what of the mental implications, if any to those who are already obese?

I don't think any of the proposed questions are particularly meanspirited in nature.

That aside, oh fucking well. I don't see a way to discourage a behavior if the consequences aren't unpleasant.

[Rukentuts]

There isn't already social pressure on fat people?

The whole "it's a disease" crowd and victim mentality doesn't help matters in the least.

[Divineknight13]

i can understand the logic behind it but its a thin line to walk ... negativity also has a effect on human psychology especially when the subject has low self esteem from there physical build

but then again its choice ... eatting more then you require is also choice

[Deadvolcanoes]

All the fat acceptance bullshit in the US hurts us as a country.

I definitely agree with this. Its gotten to a point where we can't talk about it without hurting peoples feelings.

[Ezekiah]

The comparison between smoking and being obese starts to be flawed when you consider why laws and scorn were originally encouraged -- second hand smoke is just as dangerous as smoking. Walking by fat people doesn't increase your risk for cancer.

[Spectral]

its a thin line to walk ...

I wish this had been intentional

[Deadvolcanoes]

i can understand the logic behind it but its a thin line to walk ... negativity also has a effect on human psychology especially when the subject has low self esteem from there physical build

but then again its choice ... eatting more then you require is also choice

The article discusses the negative effect social pressure can have on people, and how to avoid it. It certainly has to be constructive, as another poster stated.

[Spectral]

I definitely agree with this. Its gotten to a point where we can't talk about it without hurting peoples feelings.

Ever see the This Is Thin Privilege Tumblr? Takes victim mentality to a new level. Thin people didn't ruin fat people's lives.

[Ezekiah]

No, but a bunch of people being fat, and eating unhealthily leads to increased strain on the medical system, increasing prices for everyone.

You can certainly argue that standpoint for heaping scorn on fat people, especially with the new healthcare system going into effect, but I still think it's nonsensical to compare it to smoking. Smoking around someone else is literally dangerous. It has no place in the discussion.

[Deadvolcanoes]

The comparison between smoking and being obese starts to be flawed when you consider why laws and scorn were originally encouraged -- second hand smoke is just as dangerous as smoking. Walking by fat people doesn't increase your risk for cancer.

Obese parents are much more likely to have obese children.

[Spectral]

second hand smoke is just as dangerous as smoking.

Just as dangerous? No, not even close. Really, the stigma for second hand smoke long ago outstripped its actual hazards. It's dangerous as an occupational hazard for people around it all day, not for someone catching a whiff of smoke on a city street.

The comparison is mostly accurate - both are chosen, both are hard to change, both shorten lives and destroy quality of life.

[RoKPaNda]

I'm fully on board with fat shaming, I don't think it's done nearly enough. All the fat acceptance bullshit in the US hurts us as a country. I didn't realize how significant the stigma on obesity was until I spent a couple years dating a Korean woman; there's a reason there's almost no obese people in Korea.

Hell, I'm in favor of asking basically everyone the same sorts of questions. It's a lot easier for me to pound out a few more reps if I think, "do you like your arms as they currently are?" or to dig deep for another mile when I think "are you happy with the times you're running?".

That's not entirely accurate. In South Korea it's just not considered a big deal to either person when someone brings up a person's weight in conversation. It's just not considered bad manners. On the contrary the US is one of the few places on the planet where people actually give a shit. In most places in Europe if you call someone fat they're like "Yeah, I'm fat, so what?" - In the US if you call someone fat it's generally considered insulting and they go on the defensive.

Of course South Korea isn't the best example to be using, because in South Korea they have laws against internet trolling and harassment because it's not uncommon for S. Koreans to commit suicide after being bullied by disgruntled fans and haters on the internet.

The issue with fat shaming, as with most social pressure situations, it's hard to draw a line, and it's going to lead to issues like the one that many perfectly healthy women currently deal with where they're in a perfectly healthy state but feel like they're morbidly obese because of societal pressure to become nothing but skin and bones.

Over the years I admit that I've said some pretty horrible things to obese people, and now that I'm an adult and I have to live in the adult world, I feel absolutely terrible about it. This guy isn't actively telling you to go out there and be a dick to people, he's saying that getting on people you know about their obesity in an educated and non-dickish manner could help them with their obesity. He's not telling you go up to every person that you deem obese and tell them how much of a slob they are. He's actually telling you not to discriminate against the person themselves, but to actively remind them of their condition and the downsides to it. To stigmatize the condition, and make others try harder to AVOID it, rather than stigmatizing the obese people themselves.

The news articles on the subject do make it sound like he wants you to go out and be a dickhead, but reading his actual paper he doesn't advocate that at all, he actually discourages it. He has good points.

[Deadvolcanoes]

You can certainly argue that standpoint for heaping scorn on fat people, especially with the new healthcare system going into effect, but I still think it's nonsensical to compare it to smoking. Smoking around someone else is literally dangerous. It has no place in the discussion.

Actually it does have a place in the discussion. Societal pressure helped stigmatize the act of smoking, forcing people to go outside, smoke in designated areas, etc. The same success could be seen if implemented with obesity.

[Harry Botter]

So they want to shame fat people, but not shitty parents and others who do shitty things? Makes sense to me.