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  1. #1

    Garalon Normal (Need help)

    Hey guys, my name is Faziel and my current gear looks like this http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Faziel/simple
    In my guild, I can top most fights both in MSV and in HoF I usually top the 2 first bosses, however when we come to Garalon, my DPS is significantly lower.
    Therefore I wonder what spec should I be using for this fight with my gear? Note that I am hit capped and my gloves are gemmed etc, so yeah.

    Tried both Frost and Arcane, and it seems Arcane with Invocation does slighty better than Frost with Incanters ward, however the evo casting time is just not fun to play with. Any tips? All feedback much appreciated.

    Can mention that my DPS as Arcane on Garalon currently lies around 75-85k whilst Frost a little lower.

  2. #2
    High Overlord Bopcommander's Avatar
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    I would stay arcane but use RoP and just stand in the middle of the room and nuke the body of Garalon. If you don't have to kite and you already have designated people on the legs. You can attack legs, but I never chased them down. I would only hit them as the leg zone would pass through my RoP.

    I used RoP when on this fight and I was a kiter. Both tanks and myself were the kiters. I would still pull roughly 105k to 110k this way. I also use this strat on the heroic version of this fight. I don't know if its the best strat for arc mages, but with our raid comp I found this to be easiest and the best damage output.

    Good Luck!

  3. #3
    There's little to no movement on this fight, so use RoP, i don't see why you should use Invocation nor Incanters ward. You should be able to place down RoP in the middle and turrets garalon down 95% of the time.

    Melee will always outdps you because they'll be assigned to the legs, and when dpsing legs they get a 100% increased damage buff.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    There's little to no movement on this fight, so use RoP, i don't see why you should use Invocation nor Incanters ward. You should be able to place down RoP in the middle and turrets garalon down 95% of the time.

    Melee will always outdps you because they'll be assigned to the legs, and when dpsing legs they get a 100% increased damage buff.
    The incanter/invo is more for the kiting though if im put to that, or as it gives mobility when on the move to legs if im put to that.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 05:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bopcommander View Post
    I would stay arcane but use RoP and just stand in the middle of the room and nuke the body of Garalon. If you don't have to kite and you already have designated people on the legs. You can attack legs, but I never chased them down. I would only hit them as the leg zone would pass through my RoP.

    I used RoP when on this fight and I was a kiter. Both tanks and myself were the kiters. I would still pull roughly 105k to 110k this way. I also use this strat on the heroic version of this fight. I don't know if its the best strat for arc mages, but with our raid comp I found this to be easiest and the best damage output.


    Good Luck!
    Thank you for this input, useful information!

  5. #5
    If you are assigned to kitting I think I'd take IW. Stopping every 40 second to make a 5 second cast isn't gonna work.

    Again, if you're not kitting, I think RoP/Invo depending with whats suits you the most ^^.
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  6. #6
    I play fire and do about 125-135 on this boss on normal. I use Invocation. I start the fight by going to a back leg that no other deeps is starting on, use alter time + pom to build up a huge ignite from the 100%+ damage on the leg, spread to the boss immediately, stay on the leg for 6 secs to get max dmg on it and then as soon as IB comes off CD I switch back to the boss and IB the Combustion onto any front legs still up (doesnt spread to back ones for some reason).

    For the rest of the fight, I mainly stay int he middle of the room but once Combustion is off CD, I find a leg again and repeat what I just mentioned from the start. I also have Essence of Terror so I can time my Combustions to go off with that giving me huge numbers, I can usually end that fight with anywhere from 8-12m Combustion damage.

    However, I was helping out a group the other day that had an Arcane Mage in it, I did 129k and he did 138k. From looking at it afterwards, his tactic was very very different to mine. I do about 80-85% of my damage on the boss with only 10-15% on the legs, he was exactly in the reverse, he did 85% on legs and only 15% on boss.

    He was using IW and just stayed on legs nearly the entire time. He was using Scorch to move and keep up with the legs while also allowing him to mana conserve and camp at 6 stacks, definitely worked really well for him. He was a couple of ilvls ahead of me at the time at about 498 I think.

    Hope this helps!

  7. #7
    go arcane. use Rune of power and living bomb. or nether tempest. concentrate on the body and dot the legs.. but never dps the legs. u should be doing around 100k dps as arcane when playing perfectly at 485-489.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Pspsully View Post
    I play fire and do about 125-135 on this boss on normal. I use Invocation. I start the fight by going to a back leg that no other deeps is starting on, use alter time + pom to build up a huge ignite from the 100%+ damage on the leg, spread to the boss immediately, stay on the leg for 6 secs to get max dmg on it and then as soon as IB comes off CD I switch back to the boss and IB the Combustion onto any front legs still up (doesnt spread to back ones for some reason).

    For the rest of the fight, I mainly stay int he middle of the room but once Combustion is off CD, I find a leg again and repeat what I just mentioned from the start. I also have Essence of Terror so I can time my Combustions to go off with that giving me huge numbers, I can usually end that fight with anywhere from 8-12m Combustion damage.

    However, I was helping out a group the other day that had an Arcane Mage in it, I did 129k and he did 138k. From looking at it afterwards, his tactic was very very different to mine. I do about 80-85% of my damage on the boss with only 10-15% on the legs, he was exactly in the reverse, he did 85% on legs and only 15% on boss.

    He was using IW and just stayed on legs nearly the entire time. He was using Scorch to move and keep up with the legs while also allowing him to mana conserve and camp at 6 stacks, definitely worked really well for him. He was a couple of ilvls ahead of me at the time at about 498 I think.

    Hope this helps!
    Do you get the full duration of ignite on the legs ? Because iirc the dps bonus you get by dpsing the legs doesnt apply to the boss. So lets just throw random numbers here just to explain myself, if you get a 140k comb on the legs and spread it on the boss, its only gonna be 70k on him.
    So maybe we could get more dps by keeping it and using at the appropriate moment (trinket procs maybe ?)

    Does anyone know if thats right ? I'm curious. ^^

    I tried Arcane > IW > legs, thats fine if you're lacking some melee to dps on the legs (i've achievement 132k dps doing so), but if you already have melee, there's only gonna be one leg at a time so in the end, I doubt it'll be a dps increase, maybe I should try it another time..
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  9. #9
    The Patient royals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    I tried Arcane > IW > legs, thats fine if you're lacking some melee to dps on the legs (i've achievement 132k dps doing so), but if you already have melee, there's only gonna be one leg at a time so in the end, I doubt it'll be a dps increase, maybe I should try it another time..
    I did the same, pulled around 130-150k depending on how quickly legs died. Much more than I could do standing and turreting. That would bring me down to about 100k with RoP/mastery build. It is a bit more dicey making sure you are low on mana when you IW comes off cooldown, but definitely fun to do.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    Do you get the full duration of ignite on the legs ? Because iirc the dps bonus you get by dpsing the legs doesnt apply to the boss. So lets just throw random numbers here just to explain myself, if you get a 140k comb on the legs and spread it on the boss, its only gonna be 70k on him.
    So maybe we could get more dps by keeping it and using at the appropriate moment (trinket procs maybe ?)

    Does anyone know if thats right ? I'm curious. ^^
    Im def not getting the full Combustion time on the back leg as by the time I spread it to the body, the leg is nearly down. As far as I can tell from looking over one of my logs, the Combustion Damage is staying the same on the boss as on the Legs however it seems you are right with the actual ignite, it seems to half when going onto the body which I never noticed before. Either way I always line this up with my Essence of Terror Trinket proc

  11. #11

    Incanter's Ward is great on this fight

    For the first few weeks on him I used RoP near the center of the room and just barely moved. With iLvl 487 gear it was about 90-95K for me.

    Not bad, and it was enough as a caster for us to easily down him, but I improved a lot by switching to Incanter's Ward and moving with the leg circles. My dps with the same gear and talents (except IW) went up about 8-12K, consistently. But, maybe more importantly, it was A LOT more fun. Just scorch and blink your way to the next leg circle, hitting an occasional Arcane Explosion to keep the stacks up.

    I've been doing this with a haste build, since your mana regen is definitely lower. There is a bit more scorch weaving than with RoP, but not near as much as I had expected. Most of the time I had been casting IW only before a crush, but obviously you could have the buff up 100% of the time on this fight (with the trade-off of a few more scorches).

    Even if the damage wasn't much better, its extremely liberating not to use RoP or Invocation whenever possible. I really look forward to this fight now. God, those are just awful capstone talents, from a 'fun' point of view.

  12. #12
    Bouncing combustion of the leg to the body to other leg(s) is a DPS LOSS.
    The +100% damage from the original leg is not transposed to the body or the other leg it is ultimatly spread too.
    Instead at the start focus on the body and continue to do so throughout the fight, spreading dots/lb/combustion to the legs where possible, the instant spread of combustion to 2 legs by far outweight and damage you do at +100% to the leg you start on.

    If you have 2 melee dps they should be able to kill any leg in well enough time, allow them to focus on the legs

    As for the OP, the melee are supposed to be top dps on this fight if you do it like I said above, as they get the 100% bonus and we do not. Unfortunately the OP is currently saved in his pvp gear

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by namliam View Post
    Bouncing combustion of the leg to the body to other leg(s) is a DPS LOSS.
    The +100% damage from the original leg is not transposed to the body or the other leg it is ultimatly spread too.
    You are wrong. If you are inside the green circle you do double damage, so you crit will be 2x and so will be the ignite. Ignite do NORMAL DAMAGE to not double dip from the x2 bonus. Combustion damage is calculated from the ignite ticking....

    And in any case i don't understand how having a dot ticking on more tragets can be a dps loss

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannemmar View Post
    You are wrong. If you are inside the green circle you do double damage, so you crit will be 2x and so will be the ignite. Ignite do NORMAL DAMAGE to not double dip from the x2 bonus. Combustion damage is calculated from the ignite ticking....

    And in any case i don't understand how having a dot ticking on more tragets can be a dps loss


    The bounce off of the body not the leg is what he was saying. With the lvl of gear the OP has his combustions should do justunder a million dmg withallticks hitting which means a ton of it is wasted due to time and the legs life, nvm the dmg you have to do to the leg to get the ignite on it to combust.
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  15. #15
    With the arcane IW/haste build, do you 6-charge camp with scorch weaving or spam AB/AM (like invo build)?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    The bounce off of the body not the leg is what he was saying.
    I have obviously misunderstood the sentence "Bouncing combustion of the leg to the body to other leg(s) is a DPS LOSS."....

    Anyway after the fire nerf the best spec on Garalon is Arcane/IW. I was able to do 10k dps more that with arcane/Rop.
    Last edited by Dannemmar; 2013-01-28 at 12:26 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannemmar View Post
    You are wrong. If you are inside the green circle you do double damage, so you crit will be 2x and so will be the ignite. Ignite do NORMAL DAMAGE to not double dip from the x2 bonus. Combustion damage is calculated from the ignite ticking....

    And in any case i don't understand how having a dot ticking on more tragets can be a dps loss
    Because your combustion is initatially only hitting the one leg and body instead of multiple legs and the body.
    Also yoru +100% damage on the leg DOES NOT get coppied to the body, if you get a 50k ignite that you spread to the body the +100% is taken away and only 25k ticks happen on the body. Same for combustion, the cleaving from high debuffed targets to normal targets has been fixed a good while ago.

    Great example of which was Firemages doing 500k dps on Ambershaper which is no longer possible, same here on the legs.... Futhermore Inferno Blast can now spread your dots to 4 additional targets, bar LB which still is limited to 3. Thus spreading your Pyro, Ignite and Combustion dots off the body to potentially 4 legs, if even only temporarily is a 400% damage boost vs 100% damage boost on the one leg.

    This not even comparing to the fact that you preferably as a raid want to have your melee be inside the circles 100% so they get 100% uptime as they can utilize that much more efficiently than we can unless you are somewhat lucky. On top of which having your tanks focus their dps (in part or full dps gear) on normal increases raid dps A LOT towads meeting the 510+k dps requirement of this boss

    This not even considering the fact that with 3 million HPS and 100k fireballs (non crits) as well as 200k Pyro's (non crits) you will probably need say 10 fireballs and 3 pyro's plus added LB damage for 1 million from fireballs and 600k from Pyro's (all non crits!) to get the proper ignite happening, while standing in one place and inside the cirlcle and not have the leg die before dealing another million or more of combustion damage is unrealistic at best
    Last edited by namliam; 2013-01-28 at 12:45 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Grogfoot View Post
    For the first few weeks on him I used RoP near the center of the room and just barely moved. With iLvl 487 gear it was about 90-95K for me.

    Not bad, and it was enough as a caster for us to easily down him, but I improved a lot by switching to Incanter's Ward and moving with the leg circles. My dps with the same gear and talents (except IW) went up about 8-12K, consistently. But, maybe more importantly, it was A LOT more fun. Just scorch and blink your way to the next leg circle, hitting an occasional Arcane Explosion to keep the stacks up.

    I've been doing this with a haste build, since your mana regen is definitely lower. There is a bit more scorch weaving than with RoP, but not near as much as I had expected. Most of the time I had been casting IW only before a crush, but obviously you could have the buff up 100% of the time on this fight (with the trade-off of a few more scorches).

    Even if the damage wasn't much better, its extremely liberating not to use RoP or Invocation whenever possible. I really look forward to this fight now. God, those are just awful capstone talents, from a 'fun' point of view.
    this actually comes out to your dps being much, much worse. Killing a leg takes 3% of garalon's health, while it has 6% so anytime you are in a circle dpsing you really take that number in half and thats what you're actually doing to the boss.

  19. #19
    Can you still spread dots from the body to the legs?

    I've killed garalon several times now (only post fire+garalon nerf), and from what i can tell i've only seen the dots go from Leg-> Body, never the reverse.
    Then again, the legs only last a few seconds now so its difficult to tell

  20. #20
    From my observations (living bomb + glyphed fire blast) dots spread from body to legs. I always stay on body and do few million dmg on legs from spreading living bomb only

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