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  1. #61
    High Overlord Bawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikoslav View Post
    Cant you all (unsatisfied complainers) realize it s about your lack of skill, not the weakness of the spec?
    So what you are saying is that majority of balance druids who are having the issues are people who have no skill?
    I can tell you from raiding consecutively on 2 boomkins that this is NOT a skill issue. Why should I have to work harder to do the same or less dps than a 'pure dps' class like a mage? Which I know is easy to do, since i've also raided as a mage in current content.

    When I did raid, I was for the most part topping the charts. But as everyone else got gear, they scaled even better than me and locks and mages started easily pulling ahead of me.

    The only good thing going for Boomkins right now is that everyone wants one for an RBG team because of our silence/vortex, off heals and massive aoe damage. If we didn't have stuff like a silence, no one would want us. The NV change is going to change our burst and it'll affect both pve and pvp.

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  2. #62
    For what it's worth, I'm with Mikoslav. To add on to this, what many of you are saying when you say boomkins aren't balanced, is you're saying, you're not top dps in your raid or in the top three. This person or that person has similar ilevel gear and they do way better than me, where "way better" actually means 2K or 4K out of 80K or 100K when everyone's about the same, so you end up fourth or fifth on the list. Boomkins bring a ton to the table, with our CD's now, we've got some great controllable, schedulable, burst damage; with two good spot healing spells and one aoe heal, we can help out in a pinch in a way that some others can't; with brez and form shifts to get access to other abilities like stampeding roar for a group, or dash for yourself, you can move out of bad stuff in a pinch (i.e. bad positioning on Empress with the fear zone).

    If you want to play a class that doesn't take work and is more faceroll high dps, go pick another class. Personally I love that when we get things right, we top the charts, when we don't, well, we don't. You go back to the drawing board, you ask for some ideas, and you work on your character a little bit more. If you aren't doing the dps you feel you should, well, that's an issue with your gear, your gems, your reforging, your play style really, it's not a fundamental issue with the spec. Ask for some help, get some feedback, experiment a little with different stuff, find what works best for you to maximize your output.

    Anyway, that's my two cents. I love being a boomy, wouldn't have it any other way.

  3. #63
    High Overlord Bawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brinohm View Post
    For what it's worth, I'm with Mikoslav. To add on to this, what many of you are saying when you say boomkins aren't balanced, is you're saying, you're not top dps in your raid or in the top three. This person or that person has similar ilevel gear and they do way better than me, where "way better" actually means 2K or 4K out of 80K or 100K when everyone's about the same, so you end up fourth or fifth on the list. Boomkins bring a ton to the table, with our CD's now, we've got some great controllable, schedulable, burst damage; with two good spot healing spells and one aoe heal, we can help out in a pinch in a way that some others can't; with brez and form shifts to get access to other abilities like stampeding roar for a group, or dash for yourself, you can move out of bad stuff in a pinch (i.e. bad positioning on Empress with the fear zone).

    If you want to play a class that doesn't take work and is more faceroll high dps, go pick another class. Personally I love that when we get things right, we top the charts, when we don't, well, we don't. You go back to the drawing board, you ask for some ideas, and you work on your character a little bit more. If you aren't doing the dps you feel you should, well, that's an issue with your gear, your gems, your reforging, your play style really, it's not a fundamental issue with the spec. Ask for some help, get some feedback, experiment a little with different stuff, find what works best for you to maximize your output.

    Anyway, that's my two cents. I love being a boomy, wouldn't have it any other way.
    I don't raid anymore ... but I noticed you're running in a 10m, brinohm. And i'm not going to turn this into a 10m v 25m thing but, i've always run a 25m. The fights are in some cases, longer. You have to put out more damage and execute phase lasts longer. So yes, I might still be in the 'top 10' in a 25m but classes that benefit will undoubtedly pull ahead just because they are better at maintaining that damage and the longer execute phase.

    And tbh, every class takes a little bit of work. Rotations are easy to pick up, bosses are easy to learn.
    But for example, 2-3+ months ago when I was doing MSV and we were farming Elegon, I was pushing my limits at 145-155k dps. At the time, our lock was pushing 175k+ dps on Elegon. That is not a skill issue. Locks are supposed to be top dps on Elegon 25m N. And our lock did just that.

    But, like I said. I don't raid anymore ... so I guess the point is moot. Just silly to say the reason is skill when other classes are clearly pulling ahead.

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  4. #64
    It's funny how the people raiding casual 10 man are trying to convince some of the top raiding boomkins in the world that the reason they are not topping meters is down to a lack of skill. My guess would be that the only reason you manage to top in your 10 man guilds is because your other dps are underperforming, not because you are amazing players.

    OT: I agree with Stommped, Utility and DPS shouldn't be linked, but that is exactly what our tier 6 talents do.

  5. #65
    I also agree with Mikoslav... I'm doing just fine in my raid (25 man 16/16hc + Elite Protectors HC with 4 days/week schedule) even though I'm about >3ilvls under almost anyone else. There is only 1 fight I'd say that Moonkin DPS is really bad, but that's Lei Shi, who is a joke anyways. Almost all Moonkins I played with this content were doing really lackluster damage, because they were unmotivated. They are at the bottom of the charts and think that no matter how good they perform they'll suck anyways. I'm fine being slightly worse than mages and warlocks (who are considered OP DPS-wise anyways, you really shouldn't even compare to them) in average, because I also bring utility to the raid...and even more once 5.2 hits and playing with HotW will be more popular. I'm on par with the other DPS and can also compete and even beat our mages on warlocks on some fights, now that I'm catching up gear-wise.

    There is a reason Moonkins are so wanted right now (almost all guilds seem to be recruting one, at least in my region) and that's because they are good DPS and bring good utility, start recognizing it. Work on your character and on your playing style and stop using charts as a excuse for you underperforming...

  6. #66
    Currently im in top 5 on every boss in this tier other than Lei shi (worst fight - ever) and tsulong (healing so ye)

    most fights even 1-3 unless something fuck me up.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberowl View Post

    There is a reason Moonkins are so wanted right now (almost all guilds seem to be recruting one, at least in my region) and that's because they are good DPS and bring good utility, start recognizing it. Work on your character and on your playing style and stop using charts as a excuse for you underperforming...
    i promised to leave but i didn't.
    Boomkins dps fine. All classes have utility. Boomkin ultility is IMBA. If you only DPS and refuse to acknowledge utility you are doing it wrong.
    Boomkins are DPS sure.
    We also bring unique CC, good healing, symbiosis and brez.
    When we form our 10 man team healing skill is our paramount concern in healers and DPS our concern for DPS.
    But
    But
    But
    class skill by which i mean ability to maximise UTILITY makes up for small margins.
    I will applaud everyone who campaigns for HPS and DPS to be as equal as possible accross classes.
    I will fight everyone that trys to deny the utility of their class/spec.
    If the NV changes mean boomkin fall further down the rankings i will be sad.
    If the gap between 1st and last narrows sharply then a slight nerf to dps of boomkin is a major buff to NV.
    I am sorry for those of you who don't see that.
    It is the same theory as garalon..... raid dps>personal dps. everyone can boost personal dps by standing in legzone and nuking but that is an illusion. Once you leave the legs to a few classes your personal dps drops but raid dps rises.

  8. #68
    Field Marshal Bizley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shikokumaji View Post
    So what you are saying is that majority of balance druids who are having the issues are people who have no skill?
    I can tell you from raiding consecutively on 2 boomkins that this is NOT a skill issue. Why should I have to work harder to do the same or less dps than a 'pure dps' class like a mage? Which I know is easy to do, since i've also raided as a mage in current content.

    When I did raid, I was for the most part topping the charts. But as everyone else got gear, they scaled even better than me and locks and mages started easily pulling ahead of me.

    The only good thing going for Boomkins right now is that everyone wants one for an RBG team because of our silence/vortex, off heals and massive aoe damage. If we didn't have stuff like a silence, no one would want us. The NV change is going to change our burst and it'll affect both pve and pvp.
    I'm in the same situation. It took me few fights to learn new rotation and to top dps charts but now when everyone got better gear I'm usually behind locks, rogues and ferals (with few multidot-fights exceptions). With incoming NV nerf I'm preparing to be "walking haste buff + crez + tranq" only.

    I'm working my ass off on every raid just to hear from our two locks (each minimum 10k more dps) "easy, we didn't even sweat"...

  9. #69
    Pandaren Monk Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by felis View Post
    i promised to leave but i didn't.
    Boomkins dps fine. All classes have utility. Boomkin ultility is IMBA. If you only DPS and refuse to acknowledge utility you are doing it wrong.
    Boomkins are DPS sure.
    We also bring unique CC, good healing, symbiosis and brez.
    When we form our 10 man team healing skill is our paramount concern in healers and DPS our concern for DPS.
    But
    But
    But
    class skill by which i mean ability to maximise UTILITY makes up for small margins.
    I will applaud everyone who campaigns for HPS and DPS to be as equal as possible accross classes.
    I will fight everyone that trys to deny the utility of their class/spec.
    If the NV changes mean boomkin fall further down the rankings i will be sad.
    If the gap between 1st and last narrows sharply then a slight nerf to dps of boomkin is a major buff to NV.
    I am sorry for those of you who don't see that.
    It is the same theory as garalon..... raid dps>personal dps. everyone can boost personal dps by standing in legzone and nuking but that is an illusion. Once you leave the legs to a few classes your personal dps drops but raid dps rises.
    I'm not even sure what you are trying to say here.. Pressing enter after every sentence (or the word "but") certainly doesn't help.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Gebuz View Post
    It's funny how the people raiding casual 10 man are trying to convince some of the top raiding boomkins in the world that the reason they are not topping meters is down to a lack of skill. My guess would be that the only reason you manage to top in your 10 man guilds is because your other dps are underperforming, not because you are amazing players.

    OT: I agree with Stommped, Utility and DPS shouldn't be linked, but that is exactly what our tier 6 talents do.
    I was not trying to convince anyone of anything, I was simply sharing my opinion based on my experience of playing this class for a number of years now. I'm sure you weren't trying to say that the forums should only be the province of some "elite" class of boomkins, but that's certainly the way it sounded.

  11. #71
    The Patient
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    I see no reason to call this a nerf in anyway. Sure it will reduce the burst a little bit, but it will help with sustained dps and allow for a higher uptime on dots with a %_ damage buff on them. I think overall its a good change. As far as feral burst goes I do think its a little ridiculous but they'll get reworked soon enough... I hope. xD lol

  12. #72
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by brinohm View Post
    I was not trying to convince anyone of anything, I was simply sharing my opinion based on my experience of playing this class for a number of years now. I'm sure you weren't trying to say that the forums should only be the province of some "elite" class of boomkins, but that's certainly the way it sounded.
    They won't even listen to the elitests

    On another note:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...46?page=49#963
    - Balance - Increased Starfire, Wrath and Starsurge by 9%. Is never an unwelcome change.

  13. #73
    I raid heroic mode and honestly boomkins are great fun on some hc fights like garajal , stone guards, elegon, garalon. The problem is on fights like hc spirit kings, feng the accursed, lei shi etc. where its only single target and a fair bit to alot of movement. On those fights we dont sit at top 5, or top 15. We are 100 % last on dps on these fights and its just not fun knowing that it doesnt mather what i do im still gonna be last because on heavy movement fights balance druid are just not playable. We rely soo much on natures grace and hard casting it's just not funny. And blizzard needs to do something about our dps while moving. Aswell as heavily reduce the mana cost of hurricane because its not ok how much mana that spell costs.

  14. #74
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taft View Post
    I raid heroic mode and honestly boomkins are great fun on some hc fights like garajal , stone guards, elegon, garalon. The problem is on fights like hc spirit kings, feng the accursed, lei shi etc. where its only single target and a fair bit to alot of movement. On those fights we dont sit at top 5, or top 15. We are 100 % last on dps on these fights and its just not fun knowing that it doesnt mather what i do im still gonna be last because on heavy movement fights balance druid are just not playable. We rely soo much on natures grace and hard casting it's just not funny. And blizzard needs to do something about our dps while moving. Aswell as heavily reduce the mana cost of hurricane because its not ok how much mana that spell costs.
    You can make up for a lot of Feng's damage during shield phase, honestly. I think I used to parse in the top 5 or so on Feng, and a lot of catchup happened by smart placement of mushrooms and smart solar eclipse positioning.

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  15. #75
    I would trade all my offheals and 'utility' for 10k dps in a heartbeat...

  16. #76
    For pvp I'm looking forward to switching to HOTW. It can save partners with unexpected clutch heals, or be used as a defensive cd in bear. You could even use it in a solar beam or while blanket silenced. The possibilities...

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    You can make up for a lot of Feng's damage during shield phase, honestly. I think I used to parse in the top 5 or so on Feng, and a lot of catchup happened by smart placement of mushrooms and smart solar eclipse positioning.
    I agree here. I saved cds for aoe in shield phase, and got up to 115k and then sustained it just cause of that. Obviously it dropped though cause I was soaking Lightning fist and getting stunned, but either way. I was top 3.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Liax View Post
    I agree here. I saved cds for aoe in shield phase, and got up to 115k and then sustained it just cause of that. Obviously it dropped though cause I was soaking Lightning fist and getting stunned, but either way. I was top 3.
    Why would anyone but tank soak it?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by asharia View Post
    I would trade all my offheals and 'utility' for 10k dps in a heartbeat...
    Our single target nukes are getting boosted by 9%. So that should help us in the sustained DPS department (and conversely burst as well). Movement DPS and Sustained AOE will still be on the weak side but I will take what I can get and this is very helpful.

  20. #80
    So a nerf to burst.
    9% buff to nukes.
    Double uptime on offhealing that some of us find helpful (prob the 10 man druids) and some not (prob the 25 man druids).
    Can we agree an overall buff and kiss and make up .
    Personally this is exactly what i was hoping for. A buff to sustained damage and the healing from NV being more useful than before. Before this i preferred the priest and shaman dps offhealing skills as they are on demand. The druid one now having such a high uptime is a real competitor.
    As usual i digress. Sunfyre and the rest of you top boomkins....do you think the 9% is enough? will boomkins now sometimes appear on top of WoL's for some bosses?

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