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  1. #1

    [Balance] Nature's Vigil change... Good, not bad.

    Hear me out. Nature's vigil was a little over powered when coupled with incarnation, I agree. a change was needed in our burst, but we need something to sustain our DPS. Overall NV will likely still outdo the other 2 talents just because it will be better utility.

    1) 10% less dmg for a 1.5 min decrease in time, thus increasing the amount of times it'll be cast in a fight.
    2) The duration is still 30 seconds. Therefore on first cast, we get a 30 second duration, on the second another 30 seconds, on the third, another 30. with the previous you'd only get 60 second worth of NV.

    Thus the new change overall gave us a more sustained damage cd. We lose 10% dmg and healing. For what? Take into account a 6 minute fight. Nature's vigil being what it currently is versus PTR, You'd get 3 casts. Now you get 6, equaling an increased minute of 10% damage and healing.

    So in my opinion, Nature's vigil will actually be better, and is looking to still be the choice come 5.2 in ToT.

    Note: This is all opinion based, so don't take it so serious. Just tell me what you think.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Liax View Post
    Hear me out. Nature's vigil was a little over powered when coupled with incarnation, I agree. a change was needed in our burst, but we need something to sustain our DPS. Overall NV will likely still outdo the other 2 talents just because it will be better utility.

    1) 10% less dmg for a 1.5 min decrease in time, thus increasing the amount of times it'll be cast in a fight.
    2) The duration is still 30 seconds. Therefore on first cast, we get a 30 second duration, on the second another 30 seconds, on the third, another 30. with the previous you'd only get 60 second worth of NV.

    Thus the new change overall gave us a more sustained damage cd. We lose 10% dmg and healing. For what? Take into account a 6 minute fight. Nature's vigil being what it currently is versus PTR, You'd get 3 casts. Now you get 6, equaling an increased minute of 10% damage and healing.

    So in my opinion, Nature's vigil will actually be better, and is looking to still be the choice come 5.2 in ToT.

    Note: This is all opinion based, so don't take it so serious. Just tell me what you think.
    One of the downsides is that the so called utility of NV is negated by the fact that you >have< to use it asap the second time to make the 3rd available with Incarnation again. A 5-10sec delay will screw up your whole burst rotation.

    On the other hand HotW is a true on-demand utility.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liax View Post
    2) The duration is still 30 seconds. Therefore on first cast, we get a 30 second duration, on the second another 30 seconds, on the third, another 30. with the previous you'd only get 60 second worth of NV.

    Thus the new change overall gave us a more sustained damage cd. We lose 10% dmg and healing. For what? Take into account a 6 minute fight. Nature's vigil being what it currently is versus PTR, You'd get 3 casts. Now you get 6, equaling an increased minute of 10% damage and healing.

    So in my opinion, Nature's vigil will actually be better, and is looking to still be the choice come 5.2 in ToT.

    Note: This is all opinion based, so don't take it so serious. Just tell me what you think.
    Like Juvencus said, for NV to be effective you have to use it off CD immediately.

    If you have played with an on use trinket as balance druid you'll see how extremely clunky it is. Especially with a 1.5 min CD it's really clunky, and pretty hard to line up with eclipses and using the ability whenever it's off cd. Also, for NV to be as effective as before, you'll (so I reckon) have to use it while in eclipse 100% of the time. Which you can't :/

  4. #4
    U dont need to use it on CD as such because u never use ur inc on CD u always wait till u are going into lunar and an extra 10-20seconds isnt going to kill ur dps.

    i have been playing around on ptr and they line up pretty well just depends where u aare on your eclipse cylcle.

  5. #5
    Title is arguably correct, but for the wrong reason. NV will lose a little ground for DPS purposes, but since the healing is effect is up twice as often the healing utility of the talent is vastly improved.

    I do think HotW will gain some popularity back after the change. NV drops slightly on paper because the use that's not synced with Inc/CA is lower value. It drops even further in practice because you lose some of the power of the opening timer stack.

  6. #6
    It's rubbish for ferals now as it wont line up with berserk anymore.

  7. #7
    it's a nerf. because you're only able to 'stack' half of the NV damage boost with Inc now.

  8. #8
    I still think hotw is a better choice because 1) You don have to worry about it 2) It can help a lot if the healers can't keep up, you need a ton of armor or when you are silenced.

  9. #9
    I don't understand how's it's fair to "nerf" balance because of feral pvp burst, surely ret burst is just as "op" as nv+Inc burst.
    Oh well, all moonkins will just adapt and use it to it's max potential again

  10. #10
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    Pvp wise it will be better because since it will heal you for about the same so really you get more out of it.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    I don't understand how's it's fair to "nerf" balance because of feral pvp burst, surely ret burst is just as "op" as nv+Inc burst.
    Oh well, all moonkins will just adapt and use it to it's max potential again
    That doesn really matter, ret is a burst spec which is only good when they have cd's available. Feral does a lot of sustained damage tho, which means that burst shouldn't be that high.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    I don't understand how's it's fair to "nerf" balance because of feral pvp burst, surely ret burst is just as "op" as nv+Inc burst.
    Oh well, all moonkins will just adapt and use it to it's max potential again
    Balance druids are also doing INSANE burst you know. On the PTR, even with the NV nerf, my starsurges crit for 150k. Multi-dot 2-3 targets and you'll be swimming in 70-150k starsurges.

    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Pvp wise it will be better because since it will heal you for about the same so really you get more out of it.
    I don't think NV heals you anymore for 20% of the damage done. I'm pretty sure they nerfed that to 10% aswell.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    I don't think NV heals you anymore for 20% of the damage done. I'm pretty sure they nerfed that to 10% aswell.
    Only the Damage/Healing buff part has been nerfed from 20% -> 10% . The passive smart heal/damage are still 25%

  14. #14
    We still need more sustained dps, less burst and less clunky aoe (imo).

    Balance in its current state feels like deja vu from playing retri in the beginning of cataclysm

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    We still need more sustained dps, less burst and less clunky aoe (imo).

    Balance in its current state feels like deja vu from playing retri in the beginning of cataclysm
    Our sustained dps is fine. You just need to reach higher crit levels. I'm at 31% raid buffed, shooting stars goes off a lot.

    Our AOE is annoying. We're penalized for using hurricane (nature's grace falls off), and dotting has too much ramp up time.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by HamletEJ View Post
    Title is arguably correct, but for the wrong reason. NV will lose a little ground for DPS purposes, but since the healing is effect is up twice as often the healing utility of the talent is vastly improved..
    I do think HotW will gain some popularity back after the change. NV drops slightly on paper because the use that's not synced with Inc/CA is lower value. It drops even further in practice because you lose some of the power of the opening timer stack.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 02:11 AM ----------

    HamletEJ is correct.
    It is a nerf to balance burst ( my tanks will be celebrating).
    It is a slight nerf to balance overall dps.
    It is a huge buff to balance HPS.
    having balance healing from our DPS 1/3 of the time instead of 1/6 of the time is a huge huge buff to utility.
    i <3 HoTW as resto but this change to NV will make me even less likely to take HoTW as Balance.

  17. #17
    Whilst true, I start using NV+INC, use it directly off cd, then again for nv+inc, Just gives me more of a reason to make a weak aura for it. Only time it becomes an issue to line up is when it comes off cd from the first use, when you use one global to use it immediately.

  18. #18
    The change just makes playing Balance even more troublesome. The spec is already takes quite a bit of effort to play properly with very little reward, DPS wise. Yet you have faceroll classes like Mages etc. that do almost nothing yet push out the numbers.

    I really don't understand why they would screw up the class even more. All the specs atm are just below par. I have already started leveling a lock. Balance is just irritating to play. GJ Blizzard.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by snorecb View Post
    The change just makes playing Balance even more troublesome. The spec is already takes quite a bit of effort to play properly with very little reward, DPS wise. Yet you have faceroll classes like Mages etc. that do almost nothing yet push out the numbers.

    I really don't understand why they would screw up the class even more. All the specs atm are just below par. I have already started leveling a lock. Balance is just irritating to play. GJ Blizzard.
    Completely disagree about the reward not paying off. It most definitely can, just look at some top ranking boomkins.

  20. #20
    And then go compare it to the mage, hunters, and warlock rankings or DPS logs. :/

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