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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoGhost View Post
    mages should not get it back. frost jaw, rof, deep, poly, nova snares, blanket cs. still too much control, get rid of one please.
    Okay. RoF and Frost jaw are on the same tree. That's one gone ; )))
    Last edited by Snuggli; 2013-01-26 at 04:25 PM.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    Polymorph lasted 45 seconds in vanilla and PoM was available to all mage specs.

    Talk about rose tinted glasses.
    Only Arcane Mages had PoM and every Mage played Frost, since Arcane and Fire were dead after Frost Nova+Blink, Frost had Ice Barrier and Iceblock only.

    And PvP Duration were implemented in Vanilla as well.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    point me into the right direction here, unless there is no direction.
    The right direction is be quiet. You could be CC chained forever 8 years ago.
    Get a time machine and test yourself or find a new topic, it's nobody's job to prove you what happened in a time where you didn't play.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    The right direction is be quiet. You could be CC chained forever 8 years ago.
    Get a time machine and test yourself or find a new topic, it's nobody's job to prove you what happened in a time where you didn't play.
    I'm saying that isn't true.

    Because no one can prove it, means people who are claiming this, don't know what they're talking about.

    Again, I'm more than fine with being wrong, but patch notes do not mention the addition to Diminishing Returns on CCs. Mentions changes, but no additions.

    People, such as yourself are claiming things, and I'm asking you to prove it.

    There I've found the CC duration change for PvP on polymorph after searching diminishing returns:

    Patch 2.0.1 (2006-12-05): In PvP, Crowd Control effects will last no longer than 12 seconds instead of the full duration, with a chance of a heartbeat resist. Casting a lower rank polymorph on a target that is already under the effect of a higher rank will cause an error message and not consume mana.
    Still no mention of DRs on it

    The duration of Polymorph in PvP has changed several times. Originally, the spell was never guaranteed to last more than 15 seconds and had a chance to periodically break more often.
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Polymorph?oldid=1613952

    or

    Polymorph is a Mage spell that turns the target into a Sheep for 20-50 seconds depending on rank (max of roughly 15 in PvP).
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Polymorph?oldid=6454

    So, the original claim of being polymorphed for 45 seconds isn't exactly correct now is it?
    Last edited by Goldfingaz; 2013-01-26 at 04:56 PM.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Only Arcane Mages had PoM and every Mage played Frost, since Arcane and Fire were dead after Frost Nova+Blink, Frost had Ice Barrier and Iceblock only.
    Didn't a lot of mages spec into Arcane far enough to grab PoM though? I remember PoM-Pyro being a very popular BG/Duel spec in burning crusade.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by iWolfBanei View Post
    Didn't a lot of mages spec into Arcane far enough to grab PoM though? I remember PoM-Pyro being a very popular BG/Duel spec in burning crusade.
    indeed they did. in vanilla and bc and even into wolk it was common to spec half way into a tree and half way into another tree to access the mid tree talents of both. for example sl/sl locks or repent holy paladins. iirc a lot of warrior tanks in vanilla often had more points in arms then they did in prot.
    cata did away with this with requiring a certain number of points in one tree before you could spend points in another.

    otherwise i still fail to see the logic in reverting the cycone DR change. having a comp with multiple ccs on the same dr is not the end of the world. in fact it would probably result in more skilled play from MLD/godcomps because it makes setting up their infinite cc chains a lot harder.
    Last edited by kosechi; 2013-01-26 at 05:08 PM.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by iWolfBanei View Post
    Didn't a lot of mages spec into Arcane far enough to grab PoM though? I remember PoM-Pyro being a very popular BG/Duel spec in burning crusade.
    You could get PoM but you had to skip Ice Barrier and other Talents, you usually went with 17 points into arcane for Imp. CS and then put points into Frost for any important talent, then you had like 3 points left to put them anywhere you wanted.

    Though the "3min Mage" was popular it was rather frowned by most players because it virtually involved no skill except one shotting an enemy every 3min with Zandalari Hero Charm, PoM and Pyro Blast.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    Because no one can prove it
    Absence of evidence =/= Evidence of absence.

    Now, denying it is completely silly, a bunch of random, unrelated people would get nothing out of giving the same version of a 'bullshit' story concerning something that will never come back.

    Unless it does come back, then I have to set 5 points apart to make my sweet Arcane Explosion instant cast.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Though the "3min Mage" was popular it was rather frowned by most players because it virtually involved no skill except one shotting an enemy every 3min with Zandalari Hero Charm, PoM and Pyro Blast.
    how does this differ from current mage playstyle?
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  10. #70
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    How about instead of arguing about old stuff we can argue about new stuff?
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    Absence of evidence =/= Evidence of absence.

    Now, denying it is completely silly, a bunch of random, unrelated people would get nothing out of giving the same version of a 'bullshit' story concerning something that will never come back.

    Unless it does come back, then I have to set 5 points apart to make my sweet Arcane Explosion instant cast.
    I just proved it didn't last 45 seconds. Also, the lack of evidence in the PATCH NOTES proves that Diminishing Returns were not an after-thought on crowd control effects such as polymorph.

    I've provided more than enough information to people who think they knew how the game worked back then, with no one providing information otherwise.

    Why is this so important to the discussion? It removes credibility over the people posting. It proves they would rather post what they believe, whether or not it is true which in turn ruins the discussion. Posting without thinking is what's causing this game to go into the gutter, especially on the PvP side of things.

    Again, I'll be more than happy to admit I'm wrong when someone proves me wrong, or I prove myself wrong.

    Also official 1.4 patch notes:

    http://web.archive.org/web/200512121...-05-04-08.html

    Mentions
    Seduction (Succubus) - Is now considered a Fear effect for purposes of diminishing returns.
    Meaning there were CC diminishing returns.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 01:29 PM ----------

    Anyways: On-Topic

    The removal of the two blanket silences was something I was truly looking forward to. I would have loved that as it is the step in the right direction. What would have needed to follow was reduction in the instant damaging/healing abilities (Numbers wise), and slowly moving more CCs to cast-time oriented, or falling onto the same DR categories as other CCs.

    Burst healing and damage also needs to start coming down, but can have sustained damage increased.

    What I truly find funny is, when classes "have to relearn their class to play", they revert much needed changes. Although when Shamans are going fairly strong, it's free game to force them to relearn how to play their class (Totems while silenced), while I agree certain totems were strong, others were flat out necessary.

    I just feel as if this game really isn't going to get it's PvP intact while the current developers are on the case. (Yes I support replacing Ghostcrawler, not flat out kicking him out the door, but put someone new where he is).
    Last edited by Goldfingaz; 2013-01-26 at 06:30 PM.

  12. #72
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iWolfBanei View Post
    Ask and thou shalt receive.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Warlock
    - We are reverting the removal of Spell Lock.

    Mage
    - We are reverting the removal of Improved Counterspell.

    Druid
    - We are reverting Cyclone having shared diminishing returns with other forms of crowd control. While we are keeping the cooldown of Cyclone cast by Feral druids in order to make Predatory Swiftness CC less dominant, we are lowering the cooldown to 20 sec from 30 sec.

    Monk
    - Ring of Peace has been adjusted. It now forms a sanctuary around the friendly target, causing enemies within 8 yards to be disarmed and causes enemies who cast a harmful spell to be silenced for 3 sec. Moving out of the ring does not remove the silence, but it won't trigger again. The duration of Ring of Peace is 8 sec.


    So glad Blizzard has listened to player feedback, S13 is on track to be one of the most balanced seasons yet.

    Anyone who knows anything about caster PvP knows how reliant Mage and Warlock were on blanket CS to do any pressure. Removing it was a stupid change to begin with and meant that all Melee/Caster/Healer or Caster/Caster/Healer comps had to have a Spriest for the blanket.

    The Cyclone DR change also ruined nearly all Rdruid synergy with everything except Warlocks and Spriests (forcing you into either WLD, RLD, etc). The cyclone change from 30s to 20s is a good change for Ferals, meaning that it'll be used either defensively or offensively. Not both, but is still a reliable CC.


    Source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...5?page=51#1020
    Balanced? I'd like some of what ever you are smoking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    Balanced? I'd like some of what ever you are smoking.
    I didn't say it WOULD be balanced, I said it'd be the most balanced yet.

    Key difference.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by iWolfBanei View Post
    I didn't say it WOULD be balanced, I said it'd be the most balanced yet.

    Key difference.
    most balanced based on what? Every season? If so, then you really couldn't be more off. So far this expac hasn't even been close to any sort of Balance and with the few changes they are putting in, its going to continue that way.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    how does this differ from current mage playstyle?
    How does this differ from any other classes' playing style?

    In vanilla, the ONLY class that could kill you in under 4 seconds was a pom-pyro mage.

    Burst right now is FAR worse than it was in vanilla. Rogues couldn't kill you in a cheap shot -> kidney shot opener like they can in 5.2. No class was able to burn straight through defensive cds like they can nowadays. And never mind the fact that the pve/pvp gear discrepancy is larger than ever so that pvp'ers deal a flat 50+% more damage to pve targets based on nothing but gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  16. #76
    ring of peace is now useless

  17. #77
    Not really.In vanilla u could die in a single cheap shot.Most people doesnt have the CC today we have.I remember a rogue who was killing players with white gear.
    Vanilla was 1000x worse than s5+s9+s12.Most CDs were 3 or 5 mins,retalitation/recklessness were 30 min,LoH was 1 hour
    There was no "real" pvp gear.You could get instagibbed from T3 geared players because most ppl didnt cleared MC even.
    The first trinket removed only sheep and something other im not sure.Then they implented the fear in it and all other CC forms.
    There were no DR on stun untill some point TBC but im not sure about this.
    Throwing 5k pyros at players with max 4k+ hp was seriosly OP, but it was fun.

  18. #78
    Oh god, hooray blanket silences are back. At least let elemental and enhance shamans drop their totems while silenced or a cooldown to do it, fuck resto for getting the class globally nerfed as always without compensation.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    I just proved it didn't last 45 seconds. Also, the lack of evidence in the PATCH NOTES proves that Diminishing Returns were not an after-thought on crowd control effects such as polymorph.

    I've provided more than enough information to people who think they knew how the game worked back then, with no one providing information otherwise.

    Why is this so important to the discussion? It removes credibility over the people posting. It proves they would rather post what they believe, whether or not it is true which in turn ruins the discussion. Posting without thinking is what's causing this game to go into the gutter, especially on the PvP side of things.

    Again, I'll be more than happy to admit I'm wrong when someone proves me wrong, or I prove myself wrong.

    Also official 1.4 patch notes:

    http://web.archive.org/web/200512121...-05-04-08.html

    Mentions

    Meaning there were CC diminishing returns.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 01:29 PM ----------

    Anyways: On-Topic

    The removal of the two blanket silences was something I was truly looking forward to. I would have loved that as it is the step in the right direction. What would have needed to follow was reduction in the instant damaging/healing abilities (Numbers wise), and slowly moving more CCs to cast-time oriented, or falling onto the same DR categories as other CCs.

    Burst healing and damage also needs to start coming down, but can have sustained damage increased.

    What I truly find funny is, when classes "have to relearn their class to play", they revert much needed changes. Although when Shamans are going fairly strong, it's free game to force them to relearn how to play their class (Totems while silenced), while I agree certain totems were strong, others were flat out necessary.

    I just feel as if this game really isn't going to get it's PvP intact while the current developers are on the case. (Yes I support replacing Ghostcrawler, not flat out kicking him out the door, but put someone new where he is).
    Here's a proof for you: I remember specifically seeing polymorph lasting 45 seconds in Warsong Gulch.

    I am in no way invested in this discussion and have no honor to defend or face to save, nor have any relations with the people you are discussing with.

    If: "Wah wah anecdotes don't count." then: "Suck my water elemental."

  20. #80
    Ring of peace is now a waste of a talent tree, awesome.

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