1. #1

    SrS during cd rotation

    Sup

    I'm in a fairly high end guild, we are currently progressing on Sha Heroic. I'm also a new hunter, I came back from a 6 month~ break of having played ret pala during Cata. So I'm still quite heavily learning the class and specs, but I think I'm doing pretty good, consistent ranks and good mechanics.

    Something which has been playing on my mind for a while now, is during initial pull rotation whilst using ALL the cooldowns (insert meme here) is that I'm finding keeping up SrS is tricky. With so much nuke potential spamming AS, I find my SrS falling off or getting too low to refresh with CoS more often than I'd care to admit.
    I have done a bit of thinking on the matter, would it be more beneficial to just reapply SrS than casting the 2 CoS to get it back up to a high duration?

    I mean, even though (talking as BM) SrS does no initial damage, would it actually be a gain in DPS to reapply it at say 1-2 seconds rather than cast 2 CoS that take 1.4-1.9 seconds each and do 16-20k (non crit) damage, meaning you get 1/2 AS or a better timed KC that will do significantly more?

    I've looked around and can't find the answer to this, any thoughts?

  2. #2
    AS SV, it's a no brainer, recast SrS. I despise BM playstyle but would recast SrS as well. CoS being casted during your CD's is one of the worst things you can do since it's a wet noodle. However, if you have a 1s cast time, which is possible with haste procs, then use CoS since cast time is equal to GCD.
    "Hunters view nature as a force with which to ally. They spend much of their time with an animal companion. The bond that forms between the two is rather strong. To attack either is to bring down the wrath of both. With powerful attacks in melee and at range, and a friend willing to put its life on the line at your command, the Hunter makes a potent addition to any group."

  3. #3
    If you have the focus I would think reapplying SrS would be more beneficial than using cobra shots to re-up especially in the time when your CDs are popped, the casting time of 2 cobra shots would be more damaging to you than to just reapply SrS. At least that's how I think of it.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Smellf View Post
    I've looked around and can't find the answer to this, any thoughts?
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...M-Surv-openers

    Ignore the poster who replies first, he's mostly wrong and filtering out the bad is an unnecessary headache.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by gulder View Post
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...M-Surv-openers

    Ignore the poster who replies first, he's mostly wrong and filtering out the bad is an unnecessary headache.
    Thanks

    I tested this quite extensively tonight after posting this, and came to my own conclusion that recasting SrS was better than 2 CoS if timed right. Recasting SrS gave me an extra KC a tiny bit before initial BW fades, so actually impacted initial DPS significantly more than I expected.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Smellf View Post
    Thanks

    I tested this quite extensively tonight after posting this, and came to my own conclusion that recasting SrS was better than 2 CoS if timed right. Recasting SrS gave me an extra KC a tiny bit before initial BW fades, so actually impacted initial DPS significantly more than I expected.
    You weren't cobra shotting at an opportune time. It's better to CS because of your AMoC. You cast it before BW and you get an extra arcane shot. If you cast it during you wasted 1 second. You CS and get focus if you need it while maintaining SrS and getting more damage. I did some math on this, the damage you get is >= an arcane shot.

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  7. #7
    Problem with SV is that you generally see yourself focus starved quite a bit, so you need to use CS. Recasting SrS should only be really used when you have your CDs up and during the opener.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Loreld View Post
    Problem with SV is that you generally see yourself focus starved quite a bit, so you need to use CS. Recasting SrS should only be really used when you have your CDs up and during the opener.
    If you have your CDs up and you are doing your opener why would you SrS? That is a wasted GCD as BM. CS is much more efficient.

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by gulder View Post
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...M-Surv-openers

    Ignore the poster who replies first, he's mostly wrong and filtering out the bad is an unnecessary headache.
    This theory is just ignorant, unverifiable and of no use to the OP. Just read what everyone else has posted thus far here. His link does have great info, with posters that gave great info. Sadly, this poster was oblivious to how ImpSrS worked as proven in that link. Take what you will from that.
    "Hunters view nature as a force with which to ally. They spend much of their time with an animal companion. The bond that forms between the two is rather strong. To attack either is to bring down the wrath of both. With powerful attacks in melee and at range, and a friend willing to put its life on the line at your command, the Hunter makes a potent addition to any group."

  10. #10
    It is only better to use CoS if it is at or extremely close to a 1 sec cast. Otherwise, it is better to take a gcd to re apply, as with the buff, it does a lot more damage than a single arcane shot, so you're not losing anything with the trade off. Whereas if you use two non-1s cobra's, you are losing a lot. This is just comparing srs and cos with as. Unless you do it outside of BW, and even then, it'll just lower your burst damage. Now if cobra shot actually fully refreshed srs then I would agree that it is worth it to cast a cobra shot. But it doesn't, and casting two cobras just isn't worth it during cd's. Unless, again, if it is 1 s or extremely close to it.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by danko215 View Post
    This theory is just ignorant, unverifiable and of no use to the OP. Just read what everyone else has posted thus far here. His link does have great info, with posters that gave great info. Sadly, this poster was oblivious to how ImpSrS worked as proven in that link. Take what you will from that.
    Yeah because I stated I did not know one piece of information it tarnishes everything else I've said or will say. Also, it makes me unable to critique other information that is most obviously wrong.

    Whatever floats your boat.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Actually, using AMoC outside of the first BW accounts for this with the arcane shot spam. I am usually at ~30 focus when I cobra shot and my cobra shot is at a 1.3 second cast time with just rapid fire and the 10% haste buff. If hero is popped at the beginning it is under a 1 second cast time. So using cobra x2 gets me ready for the next 16 seconds of arcane shot spam.

    SrS ticks for about 15k - 30k for me and cobra shots hit for 20k - 40k.

    Presuming you are using AMoC to halve your focus cost (because you are either using it at the beginning before bestial wrath with cobras in the middle or halving it and doing what you are doing):

    5 ticks of SrS would be 115k - 230k so adding the 40k - 80k with cobras and another 40k - 80k from an arcane shot would be 195k - 390k

    An arcane shot hits for 40k - 80k and SrS would be 115k - 230k with the arcane shot would be 155k - 310k.


    The thing is you are wasting a GCD anyway by using BW to halve the focus cost of your AMoC during the opener so that would actually make it favor the cobra shots so much more.

    You have ~3.6 (3 with RF + Hero) seconds with cobra shot and an arcane shot and 3 with AMoC, SrS and the Arcane Shot during the opener. This is without even looking at the benefits of the focus regen of cobra shotting.

    Even without hero, I'm pretty sure with a .6 second execute time is worth it for 40k - 80k damage.

    I'm not entirely sure, but I'll have to test it. Using my rotation extends SrS to 16 seconds after the second cobra shot. Not sure if that can yield an extra tick. If it does it is that much better.

    During my tests I've seen it hit 18 seconds on SrS when I refresh it. Meaning I am getting 1 extra tick which would put everything at:

    My rotation: 210k - 420k
    AMoC during BW: 155k - 310k

    So 55k - 110k damage from using my rotation over using your first AMoC during BW.
    There's some math I did on the subject. The damage you get is >= an arcane shot.

    My rotation is:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    It's a wasted GCD if you cast them during BW. That's why I do this

    Prepot
    AMoC
    SrS
    Dire Beast
    Stampede
    BW+RF
    KC
    GT
    AS x4
    KC
    Readiness
    KC
    GT
    Cobra x2 so I don't need to waste a GCD reapplying SrS
    AS
    KC
    AS x3
    DB
    BW
    KC
    AS

    I have the 4 piece.
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2013-01-26 at 01:07 PM.

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  13. #13
    Can anyone tell me what most of the acronyms mean :P

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by NiXaN View Post
    Can anyone tell me what most of the acronyms mean :P
    AMoC - a murder of crows
    SrS - serpent sting
    DB - dire beast
    BW - bestial wrath
    RF - rapid fire
    KC - kill command
    GT - glaive toss
    AS - arcane shot
    CoS/CS - cobra shot

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  15. #15
    From my understanding, it is only worth refreshing with CoS when rapid fire is up and while your under the effect of bloodlust / hero which should bring CoS to around a 1s cast. Though, I have seen some hunters who opt to not refresh SS via CoS or re-apply SS until the bulk of their procs / CDs have fallen off since AS is so bursty during the initial opener.

  16. #16
    thats the biggest thing about the BM opener, has 50 hunters what their opener is and get 50 different answers.

    I do readiness much sooner then most to get the 3rd kill command in right after the second just to make things line up better later in the fight. Everyone dies their opener different thats what is so messed up about it, there is no "set way" to do it like every other class has.

  17. #17
    that's cuz we have a bajillion abilities.

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