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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    Clearly you don't understand the mentality as to why they will not stop playing Starcraft. It's got nothing to do with the quality of the sequel.
    Now I thought I clearly explained why they won't stop playing SC1 in favor of SC2. SC1 was popular because of UMS maps and Blizz pushed that feature into a corner in favor of the "esport" 1v1 when designing SC2.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Now I thought I clearly explained why they won't stop playing SC1 in favor of SC2. SC1 was popular because of UMS maps and Blizz pushed that feature into a corner in favor of the "esport" 1v1 when designing SC2.
    That's because Koreans focused on the esport side, not the UMS maps.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    That's because Koreans focused on the esport side, not the UMS maps.
    There is a difference between what you enjoy to watch and what you enjoy to play.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    There is a difference between what you enjoy to watch and what you enjoy to play.
    ...Koreans enjoy playing Starcraft competetively.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    ...Koreans enjoy playing Starcraft competetively.
    I am not sure you read what you reply to, but I have pointed out numerous times that this is simply not true. I can however imagine that there are ppl at Blizz who do the same kind of blind judgement ... Koreans must enjoy playing 1v1 ladder climbing when they enjoy watching it on tv, it's guaranteed. But they don't really. The selling point of SC1 were short UMS maps where ppl played 2v2v2v2 or 3v3 or similar.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    I am not sure you read what you reply to, but I have pointed out numerous times that this is simply not true. I can however imagine that there are ppl at Blizz who do the same kind of blind judgement ... Koreans must enjoy playing 1v1 ladder climbing when they enjoy watching it on tv, it's guaranteed. But they don't really. The selling point of SC1 were short UMS maps where ppl played 2v2v2v2 or 3v3 or similar.
    Have you got a reference to state where Koreans played Broodwar specifically for UMS? And also note that it's not vanilla Starcraft - it was specifically Broodwar that is still their favourite.

    After you've given reference of any weight, go to google, and type in:

    "why do Koreans play Starcraft"

    If you've ever seen documentaries on the subject or interviews with normal (not pro) Korean gamers, you'd realise why surmising that they play for UMS games is ridiculous. Anyway, can we get back to Diablo 3 now instead of wasting time on a made up implication?

  7. #87
    I am Murloc! -Zait-'s Avatar
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    I enjoyed the game a little, but some of the stuff annoys me.
    1) The mobs are harder than the bosses.
    2) The fact everything revolves around an auction house which can easily be manipulated like the WoW AH is bad.
    3) Some mobs are just idiotic, the one kind that does damage to you as you're doing damage to it is just dumb.
    4) No offline play.

    I liked the game casually, but I totally understand the anger people have towards it. They took what? 10 years to make this game? And it was lacking severely in a lot of places. I honestly only played it a couple months before I stopped. It's adequate. Doesn't deserve endless amounts of hate, but it doesn't deserve much praise either.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 02:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    I am not sure you read what you reply to, but I have pointed out numerous times that this is simply not true. I can however imagine that there are ppl at Blizz who do the same kind of blind judgement ... Koreans must enjoy playing 1v1 ladder climbing when they enjoy watching it on tv, it's guaranteed. But they don't really. The selling point of SC1 were short UMS maps where ppl played 2v2v2v2 or 3v3 or similar.
    Uhm. Starcraft and Starcraft 2 is played by something like 20 or 30% of the population of South Korea, and the pro gamers for it are treated like American Football stars. The competitive scene is massive there since they put so much money into tournaments. Also they and a lot of others watch Starcraft 2 on TV. It's called GOM TV I think? I personally don't watch it, never had any appeal for me, but it's watched heavily. Do some research and you'll see that it's true and not some rumor.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 03:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Now I thought I clearly explained why they won't stop playing SC1 in favor of SC2. SC1 was popular because of UMS maps and Blizz pushed that feature into a corner in favor of the "esport" 1v1 when designing SC2.
    Not to pick on you, but you're wrong there also. The people that played only Broodwar are switching to Sc2 like the pro teams like Kespa. The majority of Koreans, Americans, and Europeans focus on the competitive 1v1 side and tournaments for esports and have since Brood War. Not UMS.
    Last edited by -Zait-; 2013-01-29 at 09:05 PM.



  8. #88
    To close the SC2 discussion you can read for example http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...legacy_of_the/ That summs it up quite nicely. Same issues with what features were carried over from it's predecessor that SC2 suffers from apply to D3 as well.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    To close the SC2 discussion you can read for example http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...legacy_of_the/ That summs it up quite nicely. Same issues with what features were carried over from it's predecessor that SC2 suffers from apply to D3 as well.
    I'm sorry, but I refuse to take a reddit post by someone named after something Pokemon related seriously. Starcraft 2 has been growing as an esport. If you could name one gaming league/tournament that features a variety of games that it has not been featured at, I would be surprised. It's been added to more rosters as the years have gone by. The problem is that the general Korean player plays Broodwar, because they've been playing it for most of their lives and have no inclination to switch. The average Korean cybercafe does not tend to come with Starcraft 2.

    I even pasted statistics showing hours played for the most played games in the EU/US. Starcraft 2 is number 8. As an RTS game. The argument that 'NeoDestiny' lays down doesn't match that statistic. More and more people in the West are playing Starcraft 2 each year. More units are sold. The RTS genre has NEVER been as popular as it has been with Starcraft 2 outside of Korea.

    And with Heart of the Swarm coming in a couple of months, with tons of built in assists for learning how to play competitively or even just get into playing 1v1/2v2/whatever, the numbers are just going to increase.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    I'm sorry, but I refuse to take a reddit post by someone named after something Pokemon related seriously. Starcraft 2 has been growing as an esport. If you could name one gaming league/tournament that features a variety of games that it has not been featured at, I would be surprised. It's been added to more rosters as the years have gone by. The problem is that the general Korean player plays Broodwar, because they've been playing it for most of their lives and have no inclination to switch. The average Korean cybercafe does not tend to come with Starcraft 2.
    The reddit is just a quote, the original post is made by Destiny on his blog. But ok, if you believe that SC2 is in great state, that all the popular features that Blizz failed to transfer from SC1, D2, BNET 1.0 to their modern successors is not something to be wondering about, well future will tell.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    ...Koreans enjoy playing Starcraft competetively.
    According to the gamemetrics they don't enjoy starcraft 2. It doesn't make top 10.

    http://www.gametrics.com/rank/Rank02.aspx

    It's pretty sad that fucking league of legends is ranking ahead. As for UMS maps I can confirm that my fondest memories of sc:bw were custom maps. Either NR 20 maps with fastest hacked map possible or the actual user maps like Aion of Storms. Wc3 carried this tradition forward to actually and in fact did an even better job.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    According to the gamemetrics they don't enjoy starcraft 2. It doesn't make top 10.

    http://www.gametrics.com/rank/Rank02.aspx
    ...Yes, that's what I said (Not including the "don't enjoy" part). Korean net/cyber cafe players simply don't have Starcraft 2 due to its price, the fact that most of the locations are using severely dated PCs and the fact that BW is still so popular. It's not even that they don't enjoy it - they do not want to change from something so widely loved. However, if you tune in to GOM TV ever, it'll have Starcraft 2 playing. And the ratings are through the roof.

    The sales for Starcraft 2's release in Korea didn't even put it in the top10 over there. Free games and cheap games dominate completely and that's not something that outsiders can influence.

    Edited: (Not including the "don't enjoy" part)
    Last edited by Shinzai; 2013-01-29 at 10:24 PM.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    ...Yes, that's what I said. Korean net/cyber cafe players simply don't have Starcraft 2 due to its price, the fact that most of the locations are using severely dated PCs and the fact that BW is still so popular. It's not even that they don't enjoy it - they do not want to change from something so widely loved. However, if you tune in to GOM TV ever, it'll have Starcraft 2 playing. And the ratings are through the roof.

    The sales for Starcraft 2's release in Korea didn't even put it in the top10 over there. Free games and cheap games dominate completely and that's not something that outsiders can influence.
    But they have diablo 3... it ranks in the top 10... that's a load of horse shit frankly

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    But they have diablo 3... it ranks in the top 10... that's a load of horse shit frankly
    What is Starcraft 2's percentage is compared to Diablo 3's 2.10% player base at number 10? Unless I'm mistaken, it was 1.96% at last counting.

    Addendum: Also, you do realise that Diablo 3 had immense popularity in South Korea because of the RMAH, right? Until the sales of virtual goods was stopped, the game was number one on Gametrics. It's remained in the top 10 since as people kept playing it, because it had paid for itself.

    Also refer to this:

    http://www.thisisgame.com/en/2013/01...ts-association

    The inclusion of Flash at the announcement is a bold statement for KeSPA, who previously turned their nose up at GOM TV and Blizzard.
    Last edited by Shinzai; 2013-01-29 at 10:53 PM.

  15. #95
    Wasnt the lack of LAN that hurt SC2?
    I haven't been following it.

    Edit: Oh, just read the link.
    Last edited by Girlyman; 2013-01-29 at 10:46 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    What is Starcraft 2's percentage is compared to Diablo 3's 2.10% player base at number 10? Unless I'm mistaken, it was 1.96% at last counting.

    Addendum: Also, you do realise that Diablo 3 had immense popularity in South Korea because of the RMAH, right? Until the sales of virtual goods was stopped, the game was number one on Gametrics. It's remained in the top 10 since as people kept playing it, because it had paid for itself.

    Also refer to this:

    http://www.thisisgame.com/en/2013/01...ts-association

    The inclusion of Flash at the announcement is a bold statement for KeSPA, who previously turned their nose up at GOM TV and Blizzard.
    Blind denial aside. If starcraft 2 was actually good it would be in top 10 regardless of the 60 dollar peanut price (which it's been on sale several times). I don't think sc2 is a bad game but it's not in the top 10 because it's simple isn't as good as sc:bw which ranks ahead of it, primarily because the focus on competitive multiplayer has less appeal. Destiny is absolutely correct in that Blog. Gone are the days of NR 20 FASTEST MAP, I played that for years in highschool. It wasn't a massive headache like competitive sc2 play is.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Blind denial aside. If starcraft 2 was actually good it would be in top 10 regardless of the 60 dollar peanut price (which it's been on sale several times). I don't think sc2 is a bad game but it's not in the top 10 because it's simple isn't as good as sc:bw which ranks ahead of it, primarily because the focus on competitive multiplayer has less appeal. Destiny is absolutely correct in that Blog. Gone are the days of NR 20 FASTEST MAP, I played that for years in highschool. It wasn't a massive headache like competitive sc2 play is.
    Then why is Starcraft 2 number 8 in the Western side of the world? And again, no. Your reasoning behind Starcraft 2 being worse based on the Korean list is just stupid. BW was chosen specifically for its competitive side. Stop trying to bring focus to UMS maps when they're not even a part of the discussion. You're just implying that UMS maps must be the reason for the drop off in Korea, which they're not.

    In addendum:

    Why do you think LoL has taken over in Korea? You have two choices:

    A: Because they like messing around on user made maps.
    B: Because it's incredibly competitive and competition is the number one decision maker in Korean esports gaming popularity.
    Last edited by Shinzai; 2013-01-29 at 11:55 PM.

  18. #98
    Blademaster sirjuddington's Avatar
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    Because it didn't live up to people's (generally unrealistic) expectations. Personally I'm just glad I can play it online without my latency making it unplayable ala d2 and path of exile.

    As for path of exile, no idea what all the fuss is about. Seemed slow, clunky and needlessly overcomplicated to me.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    Then why is Starcraft 2 number 8 in the Western side of the world? And again, no. Your reasoning behind Starcraft 2 being worse based on the Korean list is just stupid. BW was chosen specifically for its competitive side. Stop trying to bring focus to UMS maps when they're not even a part of the discussion. You're just implying that UMS maps must be the reason for the drop off in Korea, which they're not.

    In addendum:

    Why do you think LoL has taken over in Korea? You have two choices:

    A: Because they like messing around on user made maps.
    B: Because it's incredibly competitive and competition is the number one decision maker in Korean esports gaming popularity.
    Your two choices suck and are completely ignorant. Here's the third choice.

    C. LOL and UMS maps have casual accessibility that ladder play in sc2 lacks precisely because sc2 ladder play is to competitive.

    Calling LoL competitive is a joke. LoL is the JOKE of competitive Moba. It's popularity is in large part due to it's CASUAL ACCESSIBILITY. Not because it's a good or competitive e sport. Everyone can play, it doesn't take a terrible amount of ability or skill or time invested to do. Much like UMS maps it has accessibility for casual players or for players who just aren't amazing at moba or strategy games in general. SAME LIKE UMS MAPS FROM SC:BW. I cannot stress this enough. Pushing ladder play in Sc2 is the worst thing they could have done. Exactly what destiny outlined in that article.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-01-30 at 03:39 AM.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Your two choices suck and are completely ignorant. Here's the third choice.

    C. LOL and UMS maps have casual accessibility that ladder play in sc2 lacks precisely because sc2 ladder play is to competitive.

    Calling LoL competitive is a joke. LoL is the JOKE of competitive Moba. It's popularity is in large part due to it's CASUAL ACCESSIBILITY. Not because it's a good or competitive e sport. Everyone can play, it doesn't take a terrible amount of ability or skill or time invested to do. Much like UMS maps it has accessibility for casual players or for players who just aren't amazing at moba or strategy games in general. SAME LIKE UMS MAPS FROM SC:BW. I cannot stress this enough. Pushing ladder play in Sc2 is the worst thing they could have done. Exactly what destiny outlined in that article.
    Again, none of this applies to Korea. Either learn about their mentality and the games they play or just stop.

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