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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Roggles View Post
    I think they want the sunwalkers true source of a power to be ambiguos for story reasons. They claim it's from An'she, but other claim they are just interpreting the holy light in that fashion, so people can discuss it. A lot of it is just game mechanics too.
    Has nothing to do with game mechanics, I specifically spelled out "lore" for a reason, as in, its not relevant to game mechanics. Night Elf Priest players deal holy damage with their spells, Night Elf Priest NPCs deal Arcane. The reasons have been laid out; holy has no resistances, arcane does, night elf priests would be disadvantaged dealing arcane damage so they don't. Lorewise, the school is Arcane (ironic right?). An'she is/should've been tangible, but they scrap it and flatout state it's the Light. So what makes a Sunwalker special? There is nothing special about them at all. Rather than say they picked it up from the Argent Crusade following Wrath (which was perfectly believable and acceptable) they go out on a limb trying to make it a unique thing to Tauren, then recant and just say "lol its actually the Light, sry for confusion". Horrible implementation. They retconned the history of tauren druids in a similar manner. They were *supposed* to have been inspired by the might of nature Night Elf Druids wielded in the third war and went to study with them, all of a sudden they end up the first druids? okay...

    If they truly cared about making the races fit with their class they would have made night elf priest spells silvery and shit like that.
    Blizzard assumes, and rightfully so, that people are complete simpletons and wouldn't recognise that a silvery night elf priestess healing spell is no different from a human priests gold one, and some halfwit with a youtube channel would post videos "proving" one is better than the other. Which is why they didn't do it. Seeing as how Locks are getting green fire in 5.2 though, things may change, though with respect to this particular example, Blizzard doesn't give a flying fuck about Night Elf lore and won't waste their time on such a thing.

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    Stormwind is the only one that matters because Stormwind (which has a distinct culture; that it's the typical medieval-like culture does not mean it's not there) was the largest of the human kingdoms within the Alliance that survived. Gilneas sealed itself off, and then suffered a loss at the hands of the Forsaken. The region is a battleground. Meanwhile, Stromgarde, Lordaeron, and Alterac were all destroyed. In Warcraft 2 or 3.

    I could pick at more of them, but I don't really have a reason to. The fact that you felt the need to flavor half of your arguments with "lol" makes them pretty laughable, I'd say.

    1. Dalaran was magic, Stromgarde has history and a martial tradition, Alterac was scheming, Gilneas is industrial and isolationist, Lordaeron was religious and political, Stormwind has -nothing-. Even Kul'tiras had a navy.

    2. They're not really intended as thesis level arguments in and of themselves, but to point at a disturbing trend in wow lore.
    Twas brillig

  3. #23
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Pretty much the only races that don't suck from a story standpoint are Blood Elves and Pandaren.
    I would add Forsaken to the list. Post-Cataclysm story of their expansion and their new drive in undeath just rocks.

    I agree with the OP's point, but not about everything. Night Elf, Dwarf, Troll stories are ruined. Goblins, Tauren, Worgen and Gnomes didn't even exist or have a story before, but it didn't work out quite well in most cases. Goblins are really good though, they were not supposed to have a noble knight in charge anyway. Draenei are just one big lol. Apparently devs just didn't know what kind of race the Alliance could ever have if the Horde gets BE. Human and orc stories are mediocre. Hellscream was a gust of fresh air in Cataclysm, which degraded to an obvious baddie in Mists. Varian was designed as anti-Thrall Conan copy. His story sucked from the beginning, then it got a bit better in Cata (when it got down to decisiveness and rage issues, culminating in civil war in Ironforge), then he suddenly teaches all other leaders elementary lessons, proving his superiority in everything because he's so awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Yes, this is where the magic comes out of wow when the races lose there sense of mystery and just become like any other kind of race or person you know in real life, boring, shallow, selfish and greedy.
    You must be leading a dull life with dull friends then. Real people are always interesting, especially when they start making decisions or are under pressure. Killing a dragon or saving a damsel or a child doesn't make you interesting. You lacks do.
    "A NAME IS A CLOAK OF LETTERS THROWN UPON A MAN. IT MEANS NOTHING." - Transcendent One, Planescape: Torment.

  4. #24
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Has nothing to do with game mechanics, I specifically spelled out "lore" for a reason, as in, its not relevant to game mechanics. Night Elf Priest players deal holy damage with their spells, Night Elf Priest NPCs deal Arcane. The reasons have been laid out; holy has no resistances, arcane does, night elf priests would be disadvantaged dealing arcane damage so they don't. Lorewise, the school is Arcane (ironic right?). An'she is/should've been tangible, but they scrap it and flatout state it's the Light. So what makes a Sunwalker special? There is nothing special about them at all. Rather than say they picked it up from the Argent Crusade following Wrath (which was perfectly believable and acceptable) they go out on a limb trying to make it a unique thing to Tauren, then recant and just say "lol its actually the Light, sry for confusion". Horrible implementation. They retconned the history of tauren druids in a similar manner. They were *supposed* to have been inspired by the might of nature Night Elf Druids wielded in the third war and went to study with them, all of a sudden they end up the first druids? okay...
    I liked those lore scrolls referring to tauren history, they'd been around since Vanilla and were believable, I do wish they hadn't referred to the casters as 'druids' though, since they were probably closer to the sun-based priests we have now. (Or rather, -should- have now, instead we've got... more Light)
    Twas brillig

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Draenei WC3: Master assasins of a race nearly wiped out by the Orcs

    Draenei Wow: Really eredar, never do much of anything except wait for the legion expac, morally perfect and nigh immortal, know the light better than humans and -apparently- know Elune better than the people that've worshipped her for 10k years. I don't see why anyone would like this absurdness, why bother being any other race when the Draenei do it better? (Huge arcane tradition too!)
    I agree. If only their in game models weren't so hideous I would play draenei more.

  6. #26
    Dalaran is neutral any more they are allied, and gnomes lol how mature.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Blarglord69 View Post
    Dalaran is neutral any more they are allied, and gnomes lol how mature.
    the closest thing Gnomes got to substantial lore was the mechagnome stuff in Borean Tundra. "lol" is Blizzard's official stance on Gnomes...

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    Night. Elf. Mages.

    This was the most ass backwards thing they ever did in this game.

    Apparently blizzard has never read their own books and don't understand that Night Elves hate ALL THING ARCANE.

    Magic is the only reason we even HAVE two elf races.

    After the sundering the night elves abhor all things magical, and swear it off forever.

    And lets not forget that the night elves have proven they can hold a grudge for thousands of years (ie: Illidan).

    But then Cata hits and its all, meh... lets just mess with magic again even though we almost destroyed the world with it before.
    there not really night elves..there highborn..so yeah..there also immortal...why? because they took no stand agianst archimond thus didnt lose there immortality.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    Night. Elf. Mages.

    This was the most ass backwards thing they ever did in this game.

    Apparently blizzard has never read their own books and don't understand that Night Elves hate ALL THING ARCANE.

    Magic is the only reason we even HAVE two elf races.

    After the sundering the night elves abhor all things magical, and swear it off forever.

    And lets not forget that the night elves have proven they can hold a grudge for thousands of years (ie: Illidan).

    But then Cata hits and its all, meh... lets just mess with magic again even though we almost destroyed the world with it before.
    Exactly, this is the best example to see the degeneration which Blizzard has reached with its games. When I found out that the night elves accepted the magic again ... immediatly I threw up over the computer. In fact every time I think about it... OMG I think I'll puke!

    Damn you Blizzard! You only think about the money and the marketing and mistreat the lore of your own games! That should be a crime ... Hopefully someday in some mystical way I can get my hands on the rights of the Warcraft saga to try to reroute it, beginning by reverse the cataclysm... Anyway, we can only dream ...
    Last edited by Northem; 2013-01-26 at 10:36 AM.


  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    WC3 Goblins: I laugh in the face of danger!

    WoW goblins: Your leader planned to sell you and thrall put him back in power. He's nowhere ingame.
    thrall doesn't get to choose who leads goblins. the goblin laws say that the richest guy in the cartel is the boss.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    WC3 Forsaken: What joy is there in this curse?

    Wow Forsaken: Being undead is suddenly GREAT for no reason.
    after years of being undead they finally noticed how awesome it is to be practically impossible to kill, not suffer from hunger and not needing to sleep. while most people have to work to earn their basic necessities, the forsaken do not have basic necessities. therefore, if they do work all of the money they earn just makes them richer.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    WoW: Lol pretty soon the Darkspear will be the only trolls left, the Revantusk won't ever do anything important, and all the other tribes are dying off, even Zandalar.
    No tribes have gone extinct so far, except for maybe the Shatterspears and Shadowtooths. The Sandfury, Gurubashi, Amani, Drakkari are still around, but currently for no reason other than being cannon-fodder, because that's basically what troll lore is has been since the Wow launch: "Kill trolls, kill trolls!"

    The problem is that it never brings the race forward, they remain in the same hole just to be killed over and over again.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Races can feel different with classes overlapping, with few exceptions, namely Druids. I don't buy that Blizzard cares for this though. Not when they keep hinting at homogenising the lore (or in some cases, doing just that). It'd be nice if, in lore, Sunwalkers power was in the school of fire and nature damage, like Sunfire and Wrath spells for Druids, instead they are wielding the Light? That's just stupid and makes Sunwalkers seem completely incredible, when they could've been perfectly explained with their spells dealing fire and nature damage, as its drawn from the Sun, which is supposed to be different from "the Light". They establish that paladins must *always* wield the Light.
    Its a game design issue. Do you expect Blizzard to tune 6 different spells which could be just 1 spell every PTR patch? Thats not as easy as you think, and changing code or numbers could cause bugs. Not like it didnt happen already countless of times with just 1 spell version.

    Also, lorewise only Humans and Dwarves are real Paladins, who worship the Light, Dranei Paladins (retconned from being Exarches/Vindicators) obviously get their holy powers from a Naaru. Blood Knights drained the Light off a Naaru in the past, but they now get it throught the Sunwell. Sunwalkers belief in the light of hope that the Earth Mother shines upon the world, through the use of An’she’s power.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  13. #33
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    thrall doesn't get to choose who leads goblins. the goblin laws say that the richest guy in the cartel is the boss.




    after years of being undead they finally noticed how awesome it is to be practically impossible to kill, not suffer from hunger and not needing to sleep. while most people have to work to earn their basic necessities, the forsaken do not have basic necessities. therefore, if they do work all of the money they earn just makes them richer.

    1. No it bloody doesn't, Gallywix got into power because he bribed his predecessors aids, got help from the other trade princes, and bought him out, as for Thrall not getting to choose...

    Thrall grunts and thinks a moment on what to do with the Trade prince.
    Thrall yells: For now, you will remain the Trade Prince of the Bilgewater Cartel.
    Try knowing what you're talking about beforehand. http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Final_Confrontation



    2. Except that's not stated as the reason, and what good is all that money and such if they can't feel positive emotions or taste and feel pleasure and such? (only in most quests it's written as if they can so who even knows what's up with that, blizzards writing staff sucks)

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 11:37 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by sac View Post
    there not really night elves..there highborn..so yeah..there also immortal...why? because they took no stand agianst archimond thus didnt lose there immortality.
    That's not how it works, the Shen'dralar highborne -did- lose their immortality after the well of eternity was destroyed, and used the demon Immol'thar to substitute it, when they lost it some decided to go shack up with their treehugging cousins.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 11:40 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Blarglord69 View Post
    Dalaran is neutral any more they are allied, and gnomes lol how mature.
    1. Dalaran -should- be Alliance though, it's made up of human mages from the seven kingdoms, its own mages and high elves. Plus a sunreaver agent helped to get Rhonin killed, and then the sunreavers got pushed out by Jaina, tragically it sounds like they're going to go neutral again afterward the siege of Orgrimmar which is so impossibly regressive I can't even find words for it.

    2. The point wasn't to be mature the point is to point out even Blizzard doesn't take them seriously. (Milihouse Manastorm, Wilfred Fizzlebang, the fact that it's taken them -years- to even -start- taking back their city from... troggs and lepers.)
    Twas brillig

  14. #34
    Scarab Lord Humbugged's Avatar
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    WC3: Night elves! They're this ancient, ten thousand year old race and friends to the ancient powers of nature! Blessed children of a powerful goddess.

    Wow nelfs: tauren, trolls, mogu, pandaren, mantid, nerubian, qiraji, Jinyu, saurok, - all over ten thousand years old easily. Mountain giants and such don't actually give a care about the night elves, oh, and not only is your goddess not even a goddess, this other race knows her better than you. Oh, and your racial leader, malfurion? He thinks you taking issue with the orcs cutting down your forest and forsaken assasinating druids in their sleep is petty. And all your gods agree.
    I agree with Constellations in every post he/she makes. Blizzard really turned them in to these hippy cheerleaders. Whatever happened to the feral Night Elves with bear paws and cat teeth?

    WC31-3: Humans! Seven powerful kingdoms spread across the world, with differing political affiliations and histories.

    Humans!: Only stormwind matters, gilneas is empty / most of its people in darnassus and such, Dalaran's neutral, Kul'tiras isn't even ingame. Stormwind has no culture or specialty of its own.
    Disagree. Humans storyline pretty much picks up where it left off at. Humans are just as scattered now as they've ever been.

    Dwarves WC3: Ancient titan made race looking into their heritage

    Wow dwarves: Council of three hammers doesn't matter, Brann "Which wire will destroy the world and which saves it?" Bronzebeard is the most prevalent character.
    Did Dwarves even HAVE lore in Warcraft 3? They were just riflemen. Dwarves in WoW pick up where the RPG leaves off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manakin View Post
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  15. #35
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post


    Disagree. Humans storyline pretty much picks up where it left off at. Humans are just as scattered now as they've ever been.



    Did Dwarves even HAVE lore in Warcraft 3? They were just riflemen. Dwarves in WoW pick up where the RPG leaves off.

    1. Not.. -really- humans had seven prosperous alliance kingdoms in WC2, by WoW, Stormwind is the only prosperous one in the Alliance, and Dalaran hovers on neutrality for some -bizarre- reason I can't fathom. My issue mainly is that Stormwind has no unique or interesting qualities beyond lending support to the others and being the 'big guy' in the Alliance. Kul'tiras had a navy, Stromgarde had martial prowess, Gilneas was industrial and had harvest witches, etc... Stormwind had SI:7 but that's become more of an "Alliance" thing as the other races get into it, and the 7th legion is multiracial too.

    It's not like the Night elves, who have watchers, druids of different orders (even if they're mostly blended by now), the Dwarves with different clans that have different traits, or the draenei who at least have the Hand of Argus. Stormwind -literally- has nothing to call its own.


    2. Did you miss the whole thing where Muradin was with the explorer's league in Northrend and they were rediscovering their titan heritage?

    Besides RPG is noncanon, it might as well not exist.
    Twas brillig

  16. #36
    Scarab Lord Humbugged's Avatar
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    2. Did you miss the whole thing where Muradin was with the explorer's league in Northrend and they were rediscovering their titan heritage?

    Besides RPG is noncanon, it might as well not exist.
    I. um.

    Yes, yes I did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manakin View Post
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  17. #37
    I'll have to agree with everything OP summed, especially the night elves. They've turned from badass Amazone-like strong women into kitchen wifes. Malfurion still treats Tyrande as his bitch, still hoping she'll run off with Illidan in the future.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Redmage View Post
    Magic is the only reason we even HAVE two elf races.
    .
    THREE ELF RACES.

    High Elves are a thing. Just not playabe.

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  19. #39
    The Patient
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    Poor Night elfs I say..atleast the females. From a stout and proud amazon'ish culture to being the alliance cheerleaders...sigh. I cringe whenever I see any of their emotes ._.
    There's a comic that put's it in proper perspective.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Yes, this is where the magic comes out of wow when the races lose there sense of mystery and just become like any other kind of race or person you know in real life, boring, shallow, selfish and greedy.
    Agrees wholeheartedly!

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