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  1. #41
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adjusting View Post
    Agrees wholeheartedly!
    I'm not sure what you... or Trassk are saying.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  2. #42
    Stood in the Fire Hildefuns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    1. Dalaran was magic, Stromgarde has history and a martial tradition, Alterac was scheming, Gilneas is industrial and isolationist, Lordaeron was religious and political, Stormwind has -nothing-. Even Kul'tiras had a navy.
    Indeed, they were the Azeroth version of Sparta. It's wierd how it simply succumbed to..the Syndicate (aka remnants of Alterac, the weakest of Human Kingdoms) and a handful of Ogres.

  3. #43
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasconcellos View Post
    Indeed, they were the Azeroth version of Sparta. It's wierd how it simply succumbed to..the Syndicate (aka remnants of Alterac, the weakest of Human Kingdoms) and a handful of Ogres.
    In Vanilla it was implied the Syndicate had Argus Wake (a part of the shadow council and thus, the burning legion) support, which is why they had so many warlocks running around, but that plot got dropped.

    Shame, it'd have explained why Thrall suddenly wanted the Forsaken to give the Horde a foothold in the EK :P
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  4. #44
    Herald of the Titans crakerjack's Avatar
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    Never really cared about the Lore aspect... only thing I cared about was how balanced they could make WoW and they failed.

    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  5. #45
    Stood in the Fire Deathpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Races can feel different with classes overlapping, with few exceptions, namely Druids. I don't buy that Blizzard cares for this though. Not when they keep hinting at homogenising the lore (or in some cases, doing just that). It'd be nice if, in lore, Sunwalkers power was in the school of fire and nature damage, like Sunfire and Wrath spells for Druids, instead they are wielding the Light? That's just stupid and makes Sunwalkers seem completely incredible, when they could've been perfectly explained with their spells dealing fire and nature damage, as its drawn from the Sun, which is supposed to be different from "the Light". They establish that paladins must *always* wield the Light.
    They weild the light ingame because of the mechanics. They are not going to just create a new class just for tauren.

  6. #46
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    Well I agree with what you've said .
    Mostly with the Alliance stuff as that's my preferred area .

    Yes it's a bit of a shame the other Human Kingdoms get (got in some cases) next to no story notably Stromgarde which didn't exactly fall in great circumstances and continues to not get any development which is further exacerbated by the fact Danath is "apparently" coming back according to that Dwarf although there's been no sign, on top of this it would be nice to re-familiarise ourselves with him before the inevitable meet up with Turalyon. I personally don't mind Stormwind being centre stage at all, I just don't like the fact the other Kingdoms just don't play any where near as of a role as them.

    Dwarves need to get their crap together and actually become their own respectable people rather than the Humans little helpers and/or Brann and his "expertise" in Titan related matters. The Council has provided us with great leader development opportunity as well as the respective Dwarf clans themselves. I was personally expecting to see them do more Mogu research given Magni's current issues.

    Even though Comedy will always be a part of their race the Gnomes need to show that they're out in force. The Goblins have shown what their kind can accomplish throughout Cata and MoP with their base 5.1. Gnomes need some more serious development. I want to see Mekkatorque show up and act seriously like he did in his short story which was one of the best out of the ones they created.

    So on so forth with the other races.....

    Ahhh it does feel great to vent I gotta say .
    Last edited by Scummer; 2013-01-26 at 06:59 PM.

  7. #47
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post

    Ahhh it does feel great to vent I gotta say .
    I know, cathartic right?
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  8. #48
    Herald of the Titans Humbugged's Avatar
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    WC3 left plot holes in individual races that should of been picked up in the expansion. Shame they just made a new storyline instead, then later ended it in Burning Crusade.
    Proud defender of Animal Rights, vegetarian, donor + volunteer
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  9. #49
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    WC3 left plot holes in individual races that should of been picked up in the expansion. Shame they just made a new storyline instead, then later ended it in Burning Crusade.
    I know, I was real sad when it turned out Mu'ghol and the boulderfist ogres had gotten freed and there was never really an explanation for why the Horde let the forsaken join up with Varimathras still alive.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  10. #50
    Dreadlord Spellweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    WC3: Night elves! They're this ancient, ten thousand year old race and friends to the ancient powers of nature! Blessed children of a powerful goddess.

    Wow nelfs: tauren, trolls, mogu, pandaren, mantid, nerubian, qiraji, Jinyu, saurok, - all over ten thousand years old easily. Mountain giants and such don't actually give a care about the night elves, oh, and not only is your goddess not even a goddess, this other race knows her better than you. Oh, and your racial leader, malfurion? He thinks you taking issue with the orcs cutting down your forest and forsaken assasinating druids in their sleep is petty. And all your gods agree.
    How is the list of other races even relevant? The ''ten thousand year old race'' thing wasn't exclusive to Night Elves. And it is kinda petty to fight against the Horde when there's a Firelord about to enter Azeroth that wants to burn down the world tree, and a dragon flying around that's trying to blow up the world. Also, just because Velen walks in and says ''Elune is a Naaru, problem elves?'' doesn't mean she's actually a Naaru, Velen isn't some all-knowing person, it might just be that he misinterpreted some vision he saw about Elune.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    WC31-3: Humans! Seven powerful kingdoms spread across the world, with differing political affiliations and histories.

    Humans!: Only stormwind matters, gilneas is empty / most of its people in darnassus and such, Dalaran's neutral, Kul'tiras isn't even ingame. Stormwind has no culture or specialty of its own.
    Stromgarde and Alterac are in ruins, Lordaeron has been overtaken by the Forsaken, Gilneas is pretty much a warzone, Kul Tiras simply hasn't been added to the game yet.
    That leaves Dalaran and Stormwind. Dalaran is more of a mage kingdom while Stormwind is more of a general human kingdom.
    Also, Dalaran isn't neutral anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    WC3: Orcs: Race of noble savages corrupted but working to overcome their past.

    Wow: Garrosh lol (Oh, and Thrall partnered up with the forsaken, killed a dwarf expedition in 1k needles, and left the warsong in Ashenvale)
    The Warsong Clan was never a clan of noble savages in WC3. Most, if not all, were bloodthirsty warriors.
    Lorewise, the Warsong has been pushed out of Ashenvale (or close to being pushed out)

    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    WC1-3 Trolls: Ancient race looking to get back in power / lone tribe looking to get back in power

    WoW: Lol pretty soon the Darkspear will be the only trolls left, the Revantusk won't ever do anything important, and all the other tribes are dying off, even Zandalar.
    WC3 was more about the Darkspear Tribe fighting for survival, not about looking to get back in power.

    The Zandalari made the mistake of trying to regain control over Azeroth, so it's not exactly odd that they're dying. Unless you feel like they should take over Azeroth without anyone defending their own lands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    WC3 Tauren: Strong nomads that like peace

    WoW: So pacifistic they'll ignore the quillboar murdering their people and give them water.
    It's not like they're fighting against the quillboar in the Tauren starting area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    WC3 Goblins: I laugh in the face of danger!

    WoW goblins: Your leader planned to sell you and thrall put him back in power. He's nowhere ingame.
    I agree that it's odd for Gallywix to be put back in power, but trade princes usually don't care much about the average goblin. Most of them only care about money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Draenei WC3: Master assasins of a race nearly wiped out by the Orcs

    Draenei Wow: Really eredar, never do much of anything except wait for the legion expac, morally perfect and nigh immortal, know the light better than humans and -apparently- know Elune better than the people that've worshipped her for 10k years. I don't see why anyone would like this absurdness, why bother being any other race when the Draenei do it better? (Huge arcane tradition too!)
    Considering we have to take the retcon into account, as that's canon now. The Broken were master assassins in WC3, the Draenei weren't.
    And Velen doesn't know Elune better than the Night Elves, he just thinks Elune is a Naaru

    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    WC3 Forsaken: What joy is there in this curse?

    Wow Forsaken: Being undead is suddenly GREAT for no reason.
    Perhaps they finally managed to deal with the fact that they're cursed? Or do you want them to be depressed forever, without any race progression?

    WoW: Zebrin | TERA: Rintha | GW2: Nezira Cinderclaw

  11. #51
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spellweaver View Post
    How is the list of other races even relevant? The ''ten thousand year old race'' thing wasn't exclusive to Night Elves.

    And it is kinda petty to fight against the Horde when there's a Firelord about to enter Azeroth that wants to burn down the world tree, and a dragon flying around that's trying to blow up the world.

    Also, just because Velen walks in and says ''Elune is a Naaru, problem elves?'' doesn't mean she's actually a Naaru, Velen isn't some all-knowing person, it might just be that he misinterpreted some vision he saw about Elune.
    1. It's relevant because when the nelfs were introduced being an 'ancient' culture was part of their mystique, them and the trolls being the two oldest known races even helped the Horde/Alliance dichotomy.

    2. How is it petty to fight the Horde when they're doing the same thing? Why would they fight the Twilights Hammer forces that muder their people and give the Horde a free pass? If anything it's pretty atrocious of the Horde to take advantage of the commotion in Hyjal to murder more elves when they're trying to save the world... on the other hand the elves shouldn't have claimed literally every forest on Kalimdor if they didn't expect other races to challenge them so /shrug

    3. I hope so.


    Stromgarde and Alterac are in ruins, Lordaeron has been overtaken by the Forsaken, Gilneas is pretty much a warzone, Kul Tiras simply hasn't been added to the game yet.
    That leaves Dalaran and Stormwind. Dalaran is more of a mage kingdom while Stormwind is more of a general human kingdom.

    Also, Dalaran isn't neutral anymore.
    1. That's... kind of my point, this leaves human lore in some pretty shoddy shape.

    2. Thing is, it's heavily implied it will be again after the Siege of Orgrimmar which I think is dumb :\

    The Warsong Clan was never a clan of noble savages in WC3. Most, if not all, were bloodthirsty warriors.
    Lorewise, the Warsong has been pushed out of Ashenvale (or close to being pushed out)


    WC3 was more about the Darkspear Tribe fighting for survival, not about looking to get back in power.

    The Zandalari made the mistake of trying to regain control over Azeroth, so it's not exactly odd that they're dying. Unless you feel like they should take over Azeroth without anyone defending their own lands.
    1. You're... kind of missing my point. My issue is with Thrall not reigning them in while they were under his power and still in Ashenvale in Vanilla and such. Yet no one will EVER hold him accountable for that.

    2. Again, not the most interesting lore.

    3. Not at all, everyone should, my issue is not with the other races reactions but with Blizz's writing. I think it's dumb that the Zandalar, the least blindly aggressive tribe, didn't just explain that they need a new homeland and shack up with the Horde or something, instead they got the villainbat.

    It's not like they're fighting against the quillboar in the Tauren starting area.



    I agree that it's odd for Gallywix to be put back in power, but trade princes usually don't care much about the average goblin. Most of them only care about money.



    Considering we have to take the retcon into account, as that's canon now. The Broken were master assassins in WC3, the Draenei weren't.
    And Velen doesn't know Elune better than the Night Elves, he just thinks Elune is a Naaru


    Perhaps they finally managed to deal with the fact that they're cursed? Or do you want them to be depressed forever, without any race progression?

    1. They are NOW but my issue is with Baine's short story which is chronologically before that. Blizz has made the tauren -painfully- pacifistic. It's getting them killed.

    2. Thing is, he wasn't put back in power by the goblins, he was put back in power by THRALL of all people.

    3. Again, I hope you're right about Elune but Blizz has made similarly terrible decisions.

    4. I want them to be a race with progression that makes SENSE. I'd be totally fine with them going "Undead is great!" if it was explained how they suddenly came to that conclusion and WHY they were okay with it.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  12. #52
    I really like WC3 and find myself doing the story campaigns every blue moon after a long while. Especially during the periods when I'm not playing WoW for months on end. I tend to forget how good WC3 is, once I get going I'm like, YEAh! Then, that inspires me to go play WoW to see if I can find any similarities.

    Your post has inspired me to go play and do some comparisons!

  13. #53
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggles Worth View Post
    I really like WC3 and find myself doing the story campaigns every blue moon after a long while. Especially during the periods when I'm not playing WoW for months on end. I tend to forget how good WC3 is, once I get going I'm like, YEAh! Then, that inspires me to go play WoW to see if I can find any similarities.

    Your post has inspired me to go play and do some comparisons!
    Haha, thanks. Keep in mind i'm an incredible grump and my view of the current lore is pretty negative, so don't let that affect your enjoyment of the game, try to stay unbiased.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Haha, thanks. Keep in mind i'm an incredible grump and my view of the current lore is pretty negative, so don't let that affect your enjoyment of the game, try to stay unbiased.
    I can see where you're coming from, and for me lore is an important part in the game (and the recent Blood Elf developements have me on the tip of my chair). But yeah, there are some things which might not make sense but are still there for some kind of reason.

  15. #55
    lo, I really expected a whining post, but I surprinsingly somewhat agree with it.

    It has a bit of over reaction, but yeah... Specially the night elves. They feel a lot different from what we get in WC3. We don't have as much of that "perfect warriors" and "full command of nature" stuff in wow.

  16. #56
    I agree that the races are loosing all their sense of mystery ect.
    But the development has been pretty good. I don't feel any of the race development has been forced. It's all really good imo.
    “The north still reeks of undeath. Our homelands lay in ruin. Pandaria oozes our hatred and doubt. What hope is there for this world when the Burning Legion again lands upon our shores?” - Eric Thibeau

  17. #57
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komati View Post
    I agree that the races are loosing all their sense of mystery ect.
    But the development has been pretty good. I don't feel any of the race development has been forced. It's all really good imo.
    You don't feel the Orcs thing with Garrosh has been regressive? Particularly since Garrosh -didn't want- to lead -specifically because he was afraid of doing something like this, and was raised by Geyah, and the Mag'har, who were -less- bloodthirsty than greenskin orcs...? That his racism that comes out of nowhere doesn't really make any sense?
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  18. #58
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    You don't feel the Orcs thing with Garrosh has been regressive? Particularly since Garrosh -didn't want- to lead -specifically because he was afraid of doing something like this, and was raised by Geyah, and the Mag'har, who were -less- bloodthirsty than greenskin orcs...? That his racism that comes out of nowhere doesn't really make any sense?
    He's the son of Hellscream. Decisive, aggressive, forceful, and very orcish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

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