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  1. #81
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonnick View Post
    The title of the thread is "Have you tried acupuncture?". Not " Have you read a study or internet article about acupuncture?" . Why are you even posting in the thread? What made you come in here to back Spectral up? Just a coincidence you thnk? I am laughing at the both of you looking for links to post trying desperatley to prove you are right. There is no right or wrong here, the OP asked if you tried it...well did you? Have you ever tried it Spectral? If so let's hear about that, if not then gtfo out of this thread and stop trying to boost your post counts.
    I'm not trying to boost my post count? And I didn't read Spectral's posts when I made my comment. You're getting defensive and using ad hominem attacks.

    I have a question. When you see weight loss pills being advertised with people attesting to their effectiveness, do you believe them?

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Methanar View Post
    I just did, the best known treatment for the disorder is adminstration of steroids. And even then it can take up to 6 months for it to be reasonably resolved.

    If you're going to spew bullshit like acupuncture can fix a nervous disorder, you better be able to support that better than "WELL THIS ONE TIME...."

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 06:41 PM ----------

    A placebo is a simulated or otherwise medically ineffectual treatment for a disease or other medical condition intended to deceive the recipient. Sometimes patients given a placebo treatment will have a perceived or actual improvement in a medical condition, a phenomenon commonly called the placebo effect.
    lol... you are arguing with someone who has said emphatically that it worked for them.. you my friend may need some acupuncture in your life.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    That's not exactly what I'm saying. My point is that when it comes to medicine, if there is a bunch of studies that inconclusively prove something, I won't discount it completely at least until I see a study that conclusively disproves it. It will remain a "maybe, even though unlikely". All that means is for a lack of other options, I would be willing to try it.
    I don't know what you'd consider conclusive disproof. To me, a ton of studies say, "this appears no better than a placebo" combined with the completely lack of a plausible mechanism for acupuncture is pretty well good enough. There's quite a lot of work that's been done, and the best anyone even allege on the evidence is, "this might have a clinically irrelevant benefit with regard to pain".

    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    Another point that I want to make is that people who are arguing against something often (and often rightfully) accuse the other side of bias, but seem to forget that they are also strongly biased to the other side. A person who is passionately arguing against some procedure can make the same mistakes trying to disprove it, as the passionate person on the opposite side trying to prove it. This is one reason I rarely argue with self-proclaimed "skeptics".
    I don't think I've alleged personal bias in this thread, but maybe I did. If I referred to bias, it was to refer to biases that exist in clinical trials and reporting. As in, "there's a publication bias towards positive results"; that doesn't mean I think an individual has some agenda, just that it's the nature of publication.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfootbigd View Post
    Did it for a while because my doctor recommended it to me to relax me and help stimulate my appetite. Didnt really notice any change and wonder if anyone else has tried it and what their results were and why they decided to try it.


    get a better doctor.

    Its been found that fake acupunture works just as well as the "real" thing. Meaning if you stick needles in people at random it will have the same impact as "balancign their chi"by sticking needles into "special" acupunture points, or whatever other bullshit they use to justify it

    also, there are many dubious practicioners, probably because you've got to be dodgy or delunsional to "learn" this stuff anyway. Dangers of acupunture include mild things like dizzyness, all the way up to punctured lungs and having needles left in teh body or snapping.

    At least in the UK, there is no qualifiction or official standards or register of acupuncturists, lets face it we dont have a snake oil salesman register either, so you cant be sure of the safety of the person doing the treatment. And the treatment has not benefits and potential dangers anyway so why risk it?

    Your doctor needs to be reported for giving dodgy and potentially dangerous advice.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 10:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonnick View Post
    The title of the thread is "Have you tried acupuncture?". Not " Have you read a study or internet article about acupuncture?" . Why are you even posting in the thread? What made you come in here to back Spectral up? Just a coincidence you thnk? I am laughing at the both of you looking for links to post trying desperatley to prove you are right. There is no right or wrong here, the OP asked if you tried it...well did you? Have you ever tried it Spectral? If so let's hear about that, if not then gtfo out of this thread and stop trying to boost your post counts.


    Pretty much for the same reason I'd commetn in a thread titled "Have you tried self harm...." because thats basically what this is. Its an at best ineffective and at worst dangerous practice, which is unregulated and may lead people to avoid getting proper treatment because they believe in it.

    Alot of the justification for things like this, homeopathy and all the other "alternative" (useless) medicines is that people get better for using them....no people get better anyway usually, regardless of whether you use these dodgy practices.

    Earlier in the thread someone talks about someone hurting their ankle and acupunture working much better than the PT they tried.....of course it did...the PT was working and you always heal slower to begin with, The improvement was down to the impact of the PT and to time.....
    its like people say they get better from flue because of homeopathy....no they dont, they get better anyway. By the time they resort to homeopathy their immune systems are making them better, but they make some dubious link to the homeopathy when in reality its just time that has made them better......

    dodgy medicines make people believe they dont need to seek proper professional medical advice, and so put people's health in danger, they shoudl be outlawed as against the public good, but until then I'll comment on what I please when I see people putting themselves in danger.
    No game will ever kill wow. Though Blizard themselves are making a pretty damm good attempt lately.

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  6. #86
    I am Murloc! Ryngo Blackratchet's Avatar
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    Done it a bunch. When I was having stiff neck issues it helped a bit. Went back for a few other issues and it didn't seem to do much. Luckily it was paid for through insurance otherwise I understand its a bit pricey.
    Listen kiddos, trust Handsome Jack. You want every part of this insanity.
    So many people are gonna die.

  7. #87
    Over 9000! apepi's Avatar
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    No, though I have done some meditating...It does give a nice calm feeling.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  8. #88
    I would sooner die by firing squad than willingly subject myself to acupuncture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Methanar View Post
    Being punctured by sharp metal is usually a good thing to avoid.
    For the above reason, and my crippling phobia related to it.

  9. #89
    Warchief Tzalix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ondonnick View Post
    No, they call it alternative medicine because of people like you
    No...? It's called alternative medicine when there is no proof of it actually working. That is the definition of alternative medicine. If it has been proven to work, it's called "medicine".
    The world is full of evil and lies and pain and death, and you can't hide from it... You can only face it. The question is, when you do, how do you respond? Who do you become?

  10. #90
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzalix View Post
    No...? It's called alternative medicine when there is no proof of it actually working. That is the definition of alternative medicine. If it has been proven to work, it's called "medicine".
    There is no such thing as alternative medicine. There is medicine which works, and medicine which doesn't. Acupuncture falls into the latter category.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
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  11. #91
    Brewmaster Banzhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfootbigd View Post
    Did it for a while because my doctor recommended it to me to relax me and help stimulate my appetite. Didnt really notice any change and wonder if anyone else has tried it and what their results were and why they decided to try it.
    Tried it once when I "wanted" to quit smoking, I genuinely believe it's one of those "alternatives" that you must believe in before it'll work, and at that point it's more like it's your own mentality rather then the acupuncture treatment.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    I want to know what kind of doctor recommends pseudoscience.
    *facedesk*

    On-Topic: No. But I know a few people who have and they've said mixed things about it. Some of them felt loads better afterwards, but others felt like shit. I guess it depends on who you go to.

  13. #93
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banzhe View Post
    Tried it once when I "wanted" to quit smoking, I genuinely believe it's one of those "alternatives" that you must believe in before it'll work, and at that point it's more like it's your own mentality rather then the acupuncture treatment.
    You mean a placebo, which only actually treats symptoms rather than the cause of the problem?
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musky View Post
    Bother my parents are doctors (50 years of practice combined) and my mother can do a little acupuncture. She has successfully treated/lessened my dad's hip pain, he was of course sure it would do nothing, but it proved to be very effective in his case. But as with all treatments, medical or otherwise, the results will vary, based on:

    -Genetics
    -The severity of the condition
    -Confounders
    -Age
    -Tons of other things

    In any case, don't rule out acupuncture, just because it has been called "pseudoscience" or an alternative treatment, it could improve your quality of life.
    I would at least try it, if I had exhausted the standard medical procedures or if I was looking at liver/kidney damage from prolonged use or highdoses of painkillers.


    Oh by the way, bloodletting is still used, for a few very rare blooddiseases, but they didn't know about these, back when it was "the wonder treatment".
    Fully agreed with this. Just because it didn't work for you or, exactly the opposite, it worked for you, you can't be sure it will work on everyone else. Every person is different and as such things work different.

    Speaking of that, there is a placebo effect when you say there is absolutely no way something could work too. Just like when you have a cold and a doctor gives you mints saying they will make you better the placebo kicks in and you actually do feel better thinking it's the medicine, same case happens when you're so against something, if you're given said treatment but you are 150% it won't work... there is a high chance it will not. Because your body was sure it would not work that it rejects it.

  15. #95
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    Fully agreed with this. Just because it didn't work for you or, exactly the opposite, it worked for you, you can't be sure it will work on everyone else. Every person is different and as such things work different.

    Speaking of that, there is a placebo effect when you say there is absolutely no way something could work too. Just like when you have a cold and a doctor gives you mints saying they will make you better the placebo kicks in and you actually do feel better thinking it's the medicine, same case happens when you're so against something, if you're given said treatment but you are 150% it won't work... there is a high chance it will not. Because your body was sure it would not work that it rejects it.
    Placebos can work even if people consciously think they won't. The fact you are being given treatment at all sets the subconscious triggers off.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  16. #96
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    There is no such thing as alternative medicine. There is medicine which works, and medicine which doesn't. Acupuncture falls into the latter category.
    Garlic on warts. It's alternative medicine, yet it works. And with that, I said all. There are alternative medicine ideas that work, and some that do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Placebos can work even if people consciously think they won't. The fact you are being given treatment at all sets the subconscious triggers off.
    Not really, it counts by what you belive. If you have a cold and I say I will give you the wonder medicine, there's a high chance it will work. But if I say to you I am going to give you a chocolate cookie and this should cure you... it will not. Because you don't expect a chocolate cookie to heal you because you know a chocolate cookie can't heal colds.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    Fully agreed with this. Just because it didn't work for you or, exactly the opposite, it worked for you, you can't be sure it will work on everyone else. Every person is different and as such things work different.

    Speaking of that, there is a placebo effect when you say there is absolutely no way something could work too. Just like when you have a cold and a doctor gives you mints saying they will make you better the placebo kicks in and you actually do feel better thinking it's the medicine, same case happens when you're so against something, if you're given said treatment but you are 150% it won't work... there is a high chance it will not. Because your body was sure it would not work that it rejects it.
    I can't stop surgery working by merely thinking it's a crock of shit. If I get an appendectomy, it's success isn't based on my belief. I can believe as hard as I want, it doesn't make my infected appendix grow back. That's a real treatment.

  18. #98
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    Garlic on warts. It's alternative medicine, yet it works. And with that, I said all. There are alternative medicine ideas that work, and some that do not.
    Don't conflate folk medicine using items that have medicinal properties with actual medicine; it's like how willow bark works against headaches, because the active agent is a precursor to acetylsalicylic acid. Otherwise known as aspirin.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfootbigd View Post
    Did it for a while because my doctor recommended it to me to relax me and help stimulate my appetite. Didnt really notice any change and wonder if anyone else has tried it and what their results were and why they decided to try it.
    Yeah I have, I had a GP who would perform it, I had some really bad back issues that came out of nowhere... so bad I couldn't even stand up/sit down without being in intense pain. I tried a chiropractor which didn't help... so I went and saw my GP and he suggested I try Acupuncture which I was skeptical about and scared it'd really hurt...

    Only one needle really hurt, the rest were surprisingly pain free and it really did help my back alot! way more than the massages I got from the chiropractor did that's for sure. Did it cure my back pain? no. But it did help relieve the pain.
    Last edited by Envy-DathRemar; 2013-01-27 at 01:34 PM.


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  20. #100
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nasriel View Post
    Yeah I have, I had a GP who would perform it, I had some really bad back issues that came out of nowhere... so bad I couldn't even stand up/sit down without being in intense pain. I tried a chiropractor which didn't help... so I went and saw my GP and he suggested I try Acupuncture which I was skeptical about and scared it'd really hurt...

    Only one needle really hurt, the rest were surprisingly pain free and it really did help my back alot! way more than the massage I got from the chiropractor did that's for sure
    Funny that, because Chiropractic is basically as effective as Acuputure. As in, not very.

    Good that it worked for you, but you took a big fat placebo.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

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