[TV] - Spartacus : War of the damned.

[Raldazzar]

Well, tonight was a GREAT episode. I thought one of the best so far this season. lots of twists and turns.

Naevia is doing my head in. I used to LOVE crixus, she is yoko onoing that man! Sparty was great as per usual. I love the fact that even the legendary crixus.. gannicus.. they wont cross sparty.

I liked seeing Saxa's character develop too, when she came in, she was every bit as savage as the rest, even in todays, she agreed with what the others were doing..but because she had been told to deliver to sparty, she was willing to die to get that done.

I'm really enjoying this season, its kind of like seeing a movie after you've read the book though.. because well, we all know how it ends. assuming Starz stick loosely to history (and thus far it's been fairly accurate I feel)

In short, Episode 4 was a set piece. the first 3 set the season up. this one was the one that shows the emotions behind the past not just 3 episodes.. but everything that the slaves question about sparty's leadership.. the way crassus is evolving.. not only with his son, but his tactics with Caesar.. I have a feeling we will have another few GREAT episodes like this ahead of us.

As for build, I could be wrong.. since let's face it there isnt a huge amount of details from those times, but spartacus was always of a slender build was he not? it was almost a trademark of Thracian men. Gaul's however especially ones the size of crixus (he's a little man!) were much stockier. in the same vein Agron is tall and well built. as was Sedullus and Lugo Nemetes etc.. It's not perfect, but I think if they WANTED Liam to be bulked up.. he would've been.

EDIT: some food for thought. Some pictures of Liam PRE Spartacus where he wasnt toned up atall.



Another here : http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3704522240/nm2553987 - you can see from his face alone how much he has gained.

[Paladin885]

^ Historically I don't think these people would have been bristling with muscles. In those times food would not have been plentiful, especially considering they were at war also. They would have been doing a lot of labour too; moving heavy objects, training etc. They would have been muscley yes, but they wouldn't have been beef cake with it.

And I am all about the Agron. He is so my future past husband!

not to mention their diet would be limited to fiber, protein, calcium, and whatever fat they consumed. I would imagine them as either lean or burly, no WWE John Cena bodies in the mix, thats for sure.

[HammerofJack]

My favorite TV show of all time!

[Tokru]

Naevia has to die soooo bad.

[catablitz]

You have no idea the strength and fitness those people had. Those bodies existed and even statues can confirm that. A well shaped gladiatorial body was the outcome of years training and battling in live or die rules. There were no creatine supplements but common food had so much greater nutritional value in contrary to today's shit quality, no smell, fade coloured mutated junks we eat.

Think of the gladiator as a today's cage fighter or K1 fighter. Some bodybuilding characters in the series here and there look like caricatures compared to the dream team of the protagonists which are as accurate as possible.

As for Liam....he would have it easier if he was there from beggining. I loved Andy, but imo Liam's face matches better what a Thracian would look like.

[kaamila]

god i really hate Naevia now. she needs/should have died sooner. although i thought spartacus should have killed the roman lady to unify them again instead of now breaking apart his relationship with crixus and his men. just like caesar killed the slaves and basically started up the slaughtering of the romans, he did what he needed to do to fulfill his goal in taking down spartacus, spartacus should have killed her to achieve his goal in keeping his army united.

[Last Starfighter]

god i really hate Naevia now. she needs/should have died sooner. although i thought spartacus should have killed the roman lady to unify them again instead of now breaking apart his relationship with crixus and his men. just like caesar killed the slaves and basically started up the slaughtering of the romans, he did what he needed to do to fulfill his goal in taking down spartacus, spartacus should have killed her to achieve his goal in keeping his army united.

well, historically it would have been better for them not to part. But for the show, he needs to get Naevia out of the picture. She is the poison of the group. Not Crixus. But since Crixus is so pussy whipped, he is a liability. I loved how Gannicus laid the smack down though and isn't buying into Naevia's bullshit. I can't wait to see her die. But something tells me she doesn't go with Crixus when he and the Gauls split from Spartacus. Historically Crassus built a trench all the way across southern Italy. And Spartacus in a last ditch effort breaches it. There is a scene in the trailer where the rebel army build little bridges that they've used to cross over to the Romans. And standing there in the front with Spartacus is Naevia. Crixus is nowhere to be seen. I imagine Naevia snaps out of it at some point and realizes what a fucking cunt she is being, and won't follow Crixus. It's a long shot, but who knows. Episode 4 was intense as shit though. That decimation scene was harrowing.

[Raldazzar]

god i really hate Naevia now. she needs/should have died sooner. although i thought spartacus should have killed the roman lady to unify them again instead of now breaking apart his relationship with crixus and his men. just like caesar killed the slaves and basically started up the slaughtering of the romans, he did what he needed to do to fulfill his goal in taking down spartacus, spartacus should have killed her to achieve his goal in keeping his army united.

I don't agree. I feel that it simply further proves the savagery and ruthlessness of the romans. that they will even slay their own people if it helps them reach the end goal. Spartacus isnt willing to do that.

I absolutely understand his reasons. and it in my mind only makes him that much stronger of a leader, he doesnt bow to peer pressure. if they got this far and then give up on their own morality.. whats it all for?

also historically I wish people would stop saying what definately WAS and wasnt. since until timetravel is invented saying facts and exacts is nothing more then opinion.. history is written by the victor.

further to this Starz have said that they are aiming for a mixture of history and entertainment. so don't take it for an account by account of what happened

[Badpaladin]

also historically I wish people would stop saying what definately WAS and wasnt. since until timetravel is invented saying facts and exacts is nothing more then opinion.. history is written by the victor.

Anyone rational would never make such claims anyways. Speaking of history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Servile_War

I decided to read the article after seeing episode four, and it's absolutely fascinating.

[Deleted]

Right now I don't really rote for any side, the only "rebels" I have some respect for right now is Spartacus and the dude with the blond girlfriend. And on the Roman side I loved Crassus before, but after episode 4 he went abit douche mode for me. And no name Romans feels like neutral soldiers right now but the rebels feels like a brutish murdering horde atm.

[catablitz]

It is amusing that you judge based on modern western civilisation standards. Those people had no power over their will or life. They have every right to do whatever they want. So far so good but they only thing that annoys me is the old same pattern of the good guy in every american series hero portrait.

[Last Starfighter]

It is amusing that you judge based on modern western civilisation standards. Those people had no power over their will or life. They have every right to do whatever they want. So far so good but they only thing that annoys me is the old same pattern of the good guy in every american series hero portrait.

Nobody is judging based on modern western civilization standards. And I don't know if you've seen Blood and Sand or not, or even War of the Damned, but Spartacus killed non combatants, and even women in breaking out of the ludus. The same old "American series hero portrait" is a white knight who would never touch a woman, and would do whatever he could to white knight. Spartacus is not that person. Neither is anyone else. He gets his hands plenty dirty.

[The Lottery]

I agree Spartacus does what is needed, yet he knows when killing moves into unnecessary slaughter. IMHO no one in Batiatus ludus could be spared. Where were they going to keep prisoners at that time? Plus they were fresh off the sand, and all of the manipulations, and BS that had happened, I could understand such blood lust rage.

As far as people being pissed at Crassus over Decimation, this is the Ancient world. Generals demanded loyalty and obedience. Even in modern military, falling asleep at your post can carry the penalty of death. Of course that won't happen, but the punishment is there. Instead of death going AWOL gets you prison time, back in ancient times I can easily see Decimation being used. Crassus has to enforce discipline, putting his own son in the mix also shows he isn't playing favorites. He's a political general like all the big name Romans were then, Pompei and Caesar when he goes to Gaul. So of course he was pissed a loss was tied to his legacy for ever, it hampered his political rivalries. HHe isn't in a position to show weakness, that you don't have to do what he says.

I think possibly the ending that is going to surprise everyone, is maybe just maybe Crassus, or Caesar, or someone, will talk to Spartacus. What I mean is explain for all the bad stuff Rome has done, there is potential for a good nation. A republic mired in corruption, but a republic none the less that could become great. It's hard for me to explain what I mean. There are honorable Romans, there are brutal Romans, the same is true of the rebels, Gannicus/Naevia. It isn't like only Romans kept slaves for one thing, the gladiator contest were a Roman propaganda/tv show/ so "the mob" wouldn't complain. I don't know this is just a thought, maybe things will just go down in battles and a few main chars will survive. Just doesn't seem surprising, since Spartacus body was never found.

[catablitz]

Nobody is judging based on modern western civilization standards. And I don't know if you've seen Blood and Sand or not, or even War of the Damned, but Spartacus killed non combatants, and even women in breaking out of the ludus. The same old "American series hero portrait" is a white knight who would never touch a woman, and would do whatever he could to white knight. Spartacus is not that person. Neither is anyone else. He gets his hands plenty dirty.

I can't recall him killing non combatants, but I will not argue on that. I will argue though on him becoming the white knight in war of the damned. The harder and more absolute person he becomes with his army, the more mercifull he becomes with Romans. This stereotype of 'We will not become like our enemy' is hiting on my nerves. Those Romans he saved were 'Domini' that treated living people like animals and even worse and there is no strategical justification whatsoever to explain his behaviour, but the common theme of the good guy.

[The Lottery]

His first friend in the Ludus was a Roman. Varro was a Roman if I remember correctly. So how is it hard to believe he can show mercy to Romans?

[Deleted]

His first friend in the Ludus was a Roman. Varro was a Roman if I remember correctly. So how is it hard to believe he can show mercy to Romans?

Varo was a free roman, but put himself into a gladiator (slave) state and he fell at the order of romans who thought nothing more of him than a slave.

But I agree that Spartacus is turning into too much of a good guy. While there were certainly romans who treated their slaves with at least the slightest form of humanity (like the roman woman and her husband who got killed by Spartacus), they were the minority. And Spartacus treats all roman prisoners like the "good" minority. It's a war dammit. Food supplies are low and he shouldn't waste it on people who are the reason why he started that war in the first place and who destroyed his life (literally).

About the physical thing... Just look at greek statues. They describe the bodies of athletes back then and they were heavily muscled too. Those gladiators were training most of the day (weight training included, just not with barbells like today, but heavy stones and stuff) and they (mostly) had plenty of food, at least the good ones did. Andy Whitfield was much more bulkier after 1 boot camp than Liam.

Naevia has to die soooo bad.

I agree so hard. I liked the naevia of blood and sand and the actress back then also fit her character. But she turned into a completely different person. Aggressive, (almost) evil and very very cunning. Don't really know what Crixus finds in her, other than past memories of better times.

[Deleted]

Those Romans he saved were 'Domini' that treated living people like animals and even worse and there is no strategical justification whatsoever to explain his behaviour, but the common theme of the good guy.

You mean other than the valuable info provided by the aedile's wife or the fact they could be used as a bargaining chip further than the road? It's not so difficult to come up with reasons to keep prisoners -- especially in a siege.

Agron's face = priceless.

[Dundebuns]

Gladiators were treated like thoroughbreds. Their diets were the best that could offer, and they trained hard. That muscle doesn't just disappear. Especially when fighting and swinging heavy swords and shields.

They haven't been gladiators for at least a year, and have probably been in a situation of near starvation for most of that. I just can't imagine them being beef cake. Remember that large muscles make you slower; when I trained in TKD several years ago our instructor always told us to work out, but to never body build, because a leaner, smaller person who relies on sinewy strength will always be faster than a muscle head.

Agron's face = priceless.

I loved this bit. Dan Feuerriegel is a very talented actor, and he makes Agrons relationship with Nasir touching and heartfelt.

[Badpaladin]

About the physical thing... Just look at greek statues. They describe the bodies of athletes back then and they were heavily muscled too. Those gladiators were training most of the day (weight training included, just not with barbells like today, but heavy stones and stuff) and they (mostly) had plenty of food, at least the good ones did. Andy Whitfield was much more bulkier after 1 boot camp than Liam.

Has it crossed your mind that such statues and art weren't the most realistic depictions of their subject material? Probably the toughest people in the world, MMA fighters, do not look heavily-muscled, nor do they have the physique of a body builder. I'd think gladiators would look far more like them than anyone else. They were fat compared to modern atheletes.

[Demonakat]

They haven't been gladiators for at least a year, and have probably been in a situation of near starvation for most of that. I just can't imagine them being beef cake. Remember that large muscles make you slower; when I trained in TKD several years ago our instructor always told us to work out, but to never body build, because a leaner, smaller person who relies on sinewy strength will always be faster than a muscle head.

They trained with sword and shield. Sword and shield is rather heavy, especially if you go all day.
And TKD is not a good comparison to... anything. He was.. an idiot. In combat sports, you want to be STRONG. If you're competing, you find a weight class that suits you, if there is no weight class, you would benefit far more from being strong than being weak and fast. But... TKD is a point sport. He was probably meaning the Olympic version of TKD, there is no real damage built into strikes in that, it's all about point fighting. In point fighting, you want to be quick, because you're not shooting to hurt someone, you're shooting to play tag. (I HATE Olympic TKD. Combat TKD all the way)
If you're trying to cut someone's head off with a sword, you need to be able to cleave it the hell off. You need body strength, and that usually equates to muscles. These guys didn't play "tag, you're it" with swords, they fought to the death.
Also, notice in most MMA forums, people don't like the lighter weight classes. That's because they like to see bulky men fight. Guys they KNOW will kick their ass. They don't like to see lighter guys fight, the average person doesn't want to see guys smaller than them that could cripple them. They are under the impression that size = ability.

They hunt, they forage. They eat. And you don't lose 10-20 pounds of muscle because you go hungry, you stay built up, you may lose 5 pounds at most that year, but they ate enough that they didn't lose that weight.
I don't see any of them having a body builder physique. They all are rather small. Andy Whitfield was 5'7-5'9 and 158. Liam is a wee bit taller, roughly same weight. That is in no way body builder physique. The only one that has anywhere near close to a body builder physique is Gannicus, and he's still rather small.
These men have a typical combat sport body.