[TV] - Spartacus : War of the damned.

[Deleted]

havent seen the final ep but i'm well happy with how the dead and the dying ended. It was intense and delivered a great payback to us viewers. number 1 show on tv imo

[sinilaid]

Lets hope the Caesar and Markus spinoff gets made.

[Deleted]

I hated to see Naevia die, she was my favourite character and progressed so much. She couldve instantly killed Caesar if she didn't make that stupid approach >_<.

Oh and seriously, every main character dying within 5 minutes, even if it's history, it's just stupid to see everyone die :S.

[Wikiy]

Oh and seriously, every main character dying within 5 minutes, even if it's history, it's just stupid to see everyone die :S.

Not if you went into the whole series expecting everyone to die. In fact, if they made Spartacus survive, I'd have been more disappointed. If anything, I'd be considering the show of low quality. The moment I started watching Blood and Sand, I knew that Spartacus was going to die so I expected this kind of end. And really, all that matters is that THE GAYS SURVIVED!!!

[Enosh]

I felt sad, but at the same time happy because maybe I know how everything turns out in the end. Spartacus does win in the end after all, Agron said it best.
Rome crumbles from greed and destroys itself and barbarians finish the job. The majority of the world lives free now and slavery is looked at as a horrible evil by the majority.

ehh not really
the rebellion was destroyed, slaves were put back in their place so to say, there wasn't another major slave rebellion, gladiator games continued for hundreds of years and were stopped due to the religious changes in roman society not due to anything spartacus did

yes rome fell, some 400 years after (1400 if you count the byzantine empire too), but thing is the barbarians that destroyed rome were so impressed by it that they tried to emulate it in every way possible, including naming their kings after ceasar, it's one of the major influences of western culture

so no I wouldn't say spartacus wins

[kaamila]

ehh not really
the rebellion was destroyed, slaves were put back in their place so to say, there wasn't another major slave rebellion, gladiator games continued for hundreds of years and were stopped due to the religious changes in roman society not due to anything spartacus did

yes rome fell, some 400 years after (1400 if you count the byzantine empire too), but thing is the barbarians that destroyed rome were so impressed by it that they tried to emulate it in every way possible, including naming their kings after ceasar, it's one of the major influences of western culture

so no I wouldn't say spartacus wins

^ yup it took quite a while for rome to fall. but although slaves were put back in their place and there wasnt a slave rebellion, what spartacus and his army of slaves did caused alot more rules and better treatment to future slaves as to not start up another rebellion. so i guess theres at least that small token for the future slaves of that time

[Duncanîdaho]

ehh not really
the rebellion was destroyed, slaves were put back in their place so to say, there wasn't another major slave rebellion, gladiator games continued for hundreds of years and were stopped due to the religious changes in roman society not due to anything spartacus did

yes rome fell, some 400 years after (1400 if you count the byzantine empire too), but thing is the barbarians that destroyed rome were so impressed by it that they tried to emulate it in every way possible, including naming their kings after ceasar, it's one of the major influences of western culture

so no I wouldn't say spartacus wins

Actually the fact that there is never another slave rebellion is because Romans actually started treating slaves with some form of respect after Spartacus. Laws were created to actually give slaves rights and it became illegal to mistreat or kill slaves. For example in Spartacus' day when you became to old to be of use and you were a slave, they killed you. That become illegal and freedom had to instead be granted. Granted this happened over hundreds of years, but as you said the fact that there were no more slave rebellions showed they were treated better. Because prior to that timeframe, there were three, all more intense then the last.

Yes, modern Western culture has a major influence from Rome, but slavery is gone. Slaves were the backbone, life and foundation of early Rome, they are not the backbone of our culture. This is because people like Spartacus and Lincoln over the course of history fighting to change peoples views on the subject.

Also, A fundamental principle of Catholicism is that ALL men are equal under God. Slavery to true Catholics is a horrible injustice. The fact that the general populace and Roman high society itself adopted this religion would also support the trend of slavery being looked at as a bad thing. You say the religion was the reason these people started changing their views. I'm saying the reason the religion came about and became so popular to the common people was because a core moral is that all are equal. No man owns another.

If Spartacus was indeed a freedom fighter, would he not be happy with how Western society has turned out in regards to slavery? Would he not laugh how history now looks at Crassus as a greedy asshole who got what he deserved in Parthia? Spartacus and the rebellion may have been crushed but they died free and the ideals are still alive and well today. It's why the last episode was entitled Victory.

[Wikiy]

If Spartacus was indeed a freedom fighter, would he not be happy with how Western society has turned out in regards to slavery? Would he not laugh how history now looks at Crassus as a greedy asshole who got what he deserved in Parthia? Spartacus and the rebellion may have been crushed but they died free and the ideals are still alive and well today. It's why the last episode was entitled Victory.

You're making him out to be more moral than he actually was. Yes, sure, for that time period he was sort of a hero, but there's still not much point in revering him if he's said to have committed a lot of atrocities himself. I mean, I generally have issues with people praising Ancient Greece for example (and it is my favourite ancient culture regardless) without actually knowing that Greeks were slavemasters themselves and that they also had institutionalized paedophilia.

Just because they invented democracy (for the free Greeks, mind you) and had nice art and science doesn't negate the fact that they were, by today's standard, quite evil. Spartacus was as well in that same way. The show shows him more of a moral man than he actually is. Sure, that makes sense for a show, but the mistake of thinking he was actually like that shouldn't be made.

[catablitz]

You're making him out to be more moral than he actually was. Yes, sure, for that time period he was sort of a hero, but there's still not much point in revering him if he's said to have committed a lot of atrocities himself. I mean, I generally have issues with people praising Ancient Greece for example (and it is my favourite ancient culture regardless) without actually knowing that Greeks were slavemasters themselves and that they also had institutionalized paedophilia.

Just because they invented democracy (for the free Greeks, mind you) and had nice art and science doesn't negate the fact that they were, by today's standard, quite evil. Spartacus was as well in that same way. The show shows him more of a moral man than he actually is. Sure, that makes sense for a show, but the mistake of thinking he was actually like that shouldn't be made.

You are pretty much confused and mistaken in everything you said. Believing he had commited atrocities, even if such thing can be a fault in times of a rebelion by people treated as animals, is risky since history is written by the winers and downplaying the profile and character of the man who terrified them is pretty much expected. I mean, the strange thing would be not to describe him as the master villain.

Comparing slavery between ancient Greece and Rome is a no go. The term slave was used to describe many things and primarly those that lost their civil rights due to debts and in general the low end working class. Slaves had the right to get married, own property and even land, participate in every activity besides war and politics a free man could and were even used as police officers. Furthermore, there was a gazilion ways to win your 'freedom'.

Your comment about an 'institutionalized paedophilia' is infuriating, disgracing and completely unhistorically wrong. Besides the obvious, maybe not to you, fact that you try to interpret a situation with terms of a newer era when back then words had different meaning.
There has never been any report of a child abuse or murder. Ever. Paedophilia was criminilised constitutionally in every city and so was even the corruption of minors.
Even Plutarch among many others has mentioned the subject.

Υoy maybe confuse paedophilia with paederasty. The latter term in ancient Greece was used to describe the relationship between the teacher and the student as something holy and passionate as 'Eros' is. Xenophon in his 'Symposium' describes it perfectly when he states how disgracing for Greeks was.

The spiritual love has been confused with common sex and this happened by dangerous and payrolled academicians in latest ages. By people such as those who still believe that Adam and Eve are actually our ancestors and that humanity appeared in Africa.

The most funny thing is that those arguments of paedophilia were never backed up. Not even when there was a clear reason to do so in the times that Christianity battled with old pantheon and propagandised everything related to previous status quo.

So, long story short, what you see in television is not history. Hollywood propaganda against the brighter era of humanity so as to cut people off of their most inspiring times of their existance, is not history.

[Badpaladin]

So, long story short, what you see in television is not history.

Indeed, which is why this show is very inaccurate in many respects. That doesn't detract from how awesome it is, but to think that it's holding a candle to historical accounts of the Third Servile War is pretty silly.

[Wikiy]

So, long story short, what you see in television is not history. Hollywood propaganda against the brighter era of humanity so as to cut people off of their most inspiring times of their existance, is not history.

I'm not going to even address the rest of your post since I don't have much time to argue and since you've brought this down to such a personal level that one would assume you're an Ancient Greek in the 21st century. But, this part here, I don't get because you say "what you see in television is not history" while that is EXACTLY the thing I said in my post. Nowhere did I say that Ancient Greeks are shown on TV as slavemasters and paedophiles (and whether you'd like to call pederasty paedophilia or not doesn't change the fact that is paedophilia). In fact, they're shown as the exact antithesis of that.

My conclusion of them as slavemasters and paedophiles (not that that was a moral travesty back then) was based on reading history, not watching shows, because shows show the exact opposite.

[spelle]

oh man was that last moment of gannicus beautifull, sadest and most beautifull moment in tv historie

[catablitz]

since you've brought this down to such a personal level

No, I merely try to correct your false impression.

and whether you'd like to call pederasty paedophilia or not doesn't change the fact that is paedophilia

You confirm my point, as explained in my post. You are confused and you have no idea about it.

My conclusion of them as slavemasters and paedophiles (not that that was a moral travesty back then) was based on reading history, not watching shows, because shows show the exact opposite

You say that you don't have much time to argue, but you do find time to provoke and insult without any kind of backing up. Share with the community some of that history you have been reading please.Before you make the same mistake as you did with the definition of the words as described above, let me inform that history is not opinions or comments or a hollywood version of Alexander the Great.


As a moderator you should be more carefull. Mc alpaca flayme's intervention was precise to defuse the tension you caused, but you just had to post personally for me stating: ''one would assume you're an Ancient Greek in the 21st century'' and yet accusing me of making it personal. No, truth is that my education and studies included enough history. If I wanted to answer in your way, I could call you a provocateur and a lier, since untill backing up your accusations are false.

PS: If you have hard time finding any source, I can show you mine.

[Badpaladin]

Speaking of diffusion...

Just a reminder to keep it civil. I'm pretty lenient and won't be handing out infractions unless there's a serious insult or anything, but still.

My input regarding Greece is that it's not fully accurate to associate "man boy love" that occurred then with pedophilia today.

[-Zait-]

Speaking of diffusion...

Just a reminder to keep it civil. I'm pretty lenient and won't be handing out infractions unless there's a serious insult or anything, but still.

My input regarding Greece is that it's not fully accurate to associate "man boy love" that occurred then with pedophilia today.

I think it's all about context. No matter what time period, rape is rape. If the boy (lets say 15-18) didn't want it, then it was bad. If it was consensual, then according to the sociological standards then, I'd assume it would be ok to a degree.

Anyhow, has anyone seen that pilot for Starz's DaVinci's Demons? I loved the first episode, so excited for the next one.

[sinilaid]

Anyhow, has anyone seen that pilot for Starz's DaVinci's Demons? I loved the first episode, so excited for the next one.

It was really good. And it already got renewed for season 2

[Raldazzar]

I haven't checked out Demons yet, any good?

side note, one of my fave phrases about the greeks is..

'The greeks invented sex...later the italians invented it with women..'

[catablitz]

Greeks invented democracy, theater, sports, every known field of science and basically they invented so much that there has nothing been invented ever since, besides technological evolution. I am pretty sure paederasty was banned in ancient Greece and women's position was the highest ever in ancient history. Sadly I cannot say the same about ancient Rome.

[vastx]

After watching the finale, me and my wife are re-watching the series. Just finished with Vengence. We'll probably go ahead and watch War of The Damned Again before we watch Gods of the Arena.

One of the best endings to a series, in my opinion. The end credits and final shot of Andy..my God. Speechless.

So many epic moments throughout the series, so many great actors. Only three seasons and I'm satisfied. To me, that's very telling of great writers and direction.