1. #1

    Exclamation How to fix Ret paladins.

    Main problems with Ret atm:
    • Low sustained damage
    • Too high burst damage (cooldown stacking)
    • Low selfhealing
    • Low survivability outside of a dispellable 5min cd

    One of the main problems with Ret arenas atm, is that is incredibly easy to force a Ret to play defensive and that when theyre doing so, theyre basically useless as they are forced to use every HP on very weak healing, vastly reducing their damage output.

    I propose that the current class design is changed to that of a true holy crusader.

    • Hammer of wrath is no-longer activated by Wings
    • Hammer of wrath is now a 3 point finisher which deals 85% of the damage of TV but also heals for 5% of the paladins max Health
    • When the enemy is at 30% Hammer of wrath becomes an execute. Dealing 85% of TV damage, generating 1 HP, healing for 5% of Paladins max Health + 60% crit chance. 5 secondCD.

    This will allow the paladin to remain offensive while healing and outputting damage. Also keeps Hammer as an execute with the 60% crit chance.

    • Divine protection is now usable while stunned for all paladins. It also now reduces ALL damage by 40% (Ret only)
    • When Divine shield is dispelled, Divine protection can be cast regardless of its current cd and will not invoke a cooldown. (Ret only)
    • Unbreakable Spirit now reduces the CD of Divine protection by up to 10 seconds

    Holy paladins are the only healer that, when stunned, have 0 healing output. This will not only stop holy being instagibbed in one deep/shockwave, but all paladins. It also gives Ret a much needed survivability boost.

    • Wings reduced to 15% increased damage. 90 second CD. Lasts 15 seconds
    • Holy avenger baseline. When used the next 3 moves which would consume HP are free and deal 30% more damage as Holy. 1min CD (Ret only)
    • GoTAK STR bonus removed. Now transforms the paladin into a Holy crusader (same skin as GoTAK pet) Auto attacks now cause x% more damage as holy damage. (same damage as current GoTAK melee swings) 1 min cd, lasts 20 seconds
    • Divine purpose now baseline.
    • Level 75 talents replaced.

    All of these changes will move ret away from only being useful every 3-5mins, to useful all the time as sustained damage will be increased while burst is nerfed.

    • Censure duration reduced to 15 seconds.
    • *New ability* Spread the Light - Your next judgement causes your current censure stack to spread to all targets within 10 yards.
    • Censure damage buffed by x% if PvE dps is lacking after previous changes.

    This should help with spread pressure and make Ret more viable in RBGs

    If anyone else has any ideas, leave a response!
    Last edited by Rtf; 2013-01-27 at 01:44 AM.

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk
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    You should probably have posted this in one of like 4-5 different threads over on the paladin forums.

    Other than that, I like the changes, except the Hammer of Wrath ones. I honestly wouldn't mind having weaker CD's but a minute cd. But 40% is too much for Divine Prot, i'd say 25-30% both, not 40%.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUntsAhts View Post
    I honestly wouldn't mind having weaker CD's but a minute cd. But 40% is too much for Divine Prot, i'd say 25-30% both, not 40%.
    I think you need to reread -> Divine protection is now usable while stunned for all paladins. It also now reduces ALL damage by 40% >>>(RET ONLY)<<<

    Meaning it would be the same as it is now for Holy / Prot, but changed for ret. Maybe allow prot OR holy to have a spec spscific glyph so they can get it

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raioken View Post
    I think you need to reread -> Divine protection is now usable while stunned for all paladins. It also now reduces ALL damage by 40% >>>(RET ONLY)<<<

    Meaning it would be the same as it is now for Holy / Prot, but changed for ret. Maybe allow prot OR holy to have a spec spscific glyph so they can get it
    Uhm... yes? I did read it? I understand he said Ret only. That doesn't mean a 40% shield wall, usable while stunned, on a minute CD (could go down to like 40-45 with talents) isn't overpowered.

  5. #5
    where/how does anyone reduce the CD on DP to 40-45 sec because as it is now there isnt any way to get the CD lowered from talents/glyphs (Ret only since thats what its applied to) other than unbreakable spirit which atm is useless compared to clemancy and hand of purity
    Last edited by Raioken; 2013-01-27 at 12:54 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raioken View Post
    where/how does anyone reduce the CD on DP to 40-45 sec because as it is now there isnt any way to get the CD lowered from talents/glyphs (Ret only since thats what its applied to) other than unbreakable spirit which atm is useless compared to clemancy and hand of purity
    First of all, hand of purity is useless right now, lol.
    You're right, Clemency is a much stronger option right now, but the way to fix that isn't to give us a 1 minute cooldown shield wall. That still doesn't change the fact that Unbreakable Spirit would become insanely overpowered, as would Divine Protection.

  7. #7
    For fcing unbreakable spirit>>>>>>>>clemency
    Inb4 this is ret, just saying, unbreakable spirit has its place

  8. #8
    I do agree that hand of purity isnt very useful in pve but in pvp its very strong, so it has its place. clemency is also very stong, both in pvp and pve, but unbreakable spirit is very bad in comparison. As for PvE with this change US would clearly be the go to talent, which wouldn't be a bad thing. Giving all talents a place for pvp and pve as well as all specs. Having 2 choices, HoP vs Clemency for PvP and Clemency vs US for PvE, while both could still take advantage of the 3rd in certain situations is how talents should be done. Blizz would probably in a more realistic sense go with 30% dmg reduction instead of 40% as 40% on a 1 min CD is really high and 30% is a nice middle ground.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 05:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo View Post
    For fcing unbreakable spirit>>>>>>>>clemency
    Inb4 this is ret, just saying, unbreakable spirit has its place
    Totally agree lol would be so amazing for FC

  9. #9
    I didn't see that Unbreakable spirit reduces the CD on Divine protection. To balance, this it would obviously have to be altered. I've added a new solution to the main post.

    And addressing the "40% reduction on a 1min CD is OP" can I direct your attention to Druids which have both Ironbark and Barkskin which, when resto specced have a 30 second and 1 minute cooldown respectively and provide 40% damage reduction and 25% crit reduction if glyphed.

    The current tactic for fighting Ret paladin teams is "Lol, train the ret, he only has bubble then he automatically dies." This would hopefully make people try to force more than just a dispellable 5min CD and expect to auto-win.
    Last edited by Rtf; 2013-01-27 at 01:45 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rtf View Post
    I didn't see that Unbreakable spirit reduces the CD on Divine protection. To balance, this it would obviously have to be altered. I've added a new solution to the main post.

    And addressing the "40% reduction on a 1min CD is OP" can I direct your attention to Druids which have both Ironbark and Barkskin which, when resto specced have a 30 second and 1 minute cooldown respectively and provide 40% damage reduction and 25% crit reduction if glyphed.

    The current tactic for fighting Ret paladin teams is "Lol, train the ret, he only has bubble then he automatically dies." This would hopefully make people try to force more than just a dispellable 5min CD and expect to auto-win.
    They aren't wearing plate armor.
    I know we need ways to prevent people from just LOL-training us, read the other threads on the paladin forums. 40% is still too much, 30% is reasonable.
    Just read the other threads in Paladin forums. It's not just a survivability issue, its a utility issue.

  11. #11
    Note that with the change to Divine Protection I suggested, it says usable while stunned, not silenced. So it can be countered by blanket silencing the paladin when going for a kill.

    And I have some ideas for utility but I thought adding them would make the post too long. I'll write it up then post this and the utility ideas in one post on the paladin forums.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome kleinlax21's Avatar
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    I hear the idea of adding a Ret-specific hand spell that breaks fears and/or stuns when used tossed around a lot. Many people want the functionality to be baked into Hand of Freedom, but considering its existing effects and low cooldown, I propose an entirely new Hand spell for Ret only:

    Hand of Reprisal: One minute cooldown. Castable on Allies and the Ret Paladin, this spell will end all current stun and fear effects on its target, as well as providing immunity to those effects for a duration of 5 seconds. Not affected by Clemency. Not on the Global Cooldown.

    Please advise if this is OP or not, but this would go far to address the problem of Ret's acceptance into RBG's over a Holy Paladin.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rtf View Post
    Main problems with Ret atm:
    • Low sustained damage
    • Too high burst damage (cooldown stacking)
    • Low selfhealing
    • Low survivability outside of a dispellable 5min cd

    One of the main problems with Ret arenas atm, is that is incredibly easy to force a Ret to play defensive and that when theyre doing so, theyre basically useless as they are forced to use every HP on very weak healing, vastly reducing their damage output.

    I propose that the current class design is changed to that of a true holy crusader.

    • Hammer of wrath is no-longer activated by Wings
    • Hammer of wrath is now a 3 point finisher which deals 85% of the damage of TV but also heals for 5% of the paladins max Health
    • When the enemy is at 30% Hammer of wrath becomes an execute. Dealing 85% of TV damage, generating 1 HP, healing for 5% of Paladins max Health + 60% crit chance. 5 secondCD.

    This will allow the paladin to remain offensive while healing and outputting damage. Also keeps Hammer as an execute with the 60% crit chance.

    • Divine protection is now usable while stunned for all paladins. It also now reduces ALL damage by 40% (Ret only)
    • When Divine shield is dispelled, Divine protection can be cast regardless of its current cd and will not invoke a cooldown. (Ret only)
    • Unbreakable Spirit now reduces the CD of Divine protection by up to 10 seconds

    Holy paladins are the only healer that, when stunned, have 0 healing output. This will not only stop holy being instagibbed in one deep/shockwave, but all paladins. It also gives Ret a much needed survivability boost.

    • Wings reduced to 15% increased damage. 90 second CD. Lasts 15 seconds
    • Holy avenger baseline. When used the next 3 moves which would consume HP are free and deal 30% more damage as Holy. 1min CD (Ret only)
    • GoTAK STR bonus removed. Now transforms the paladin into a Holy crusader (same skin as GoTAK pet) Auto attacks now cause x% more damage as holy damage. (same damage as current GoTAK melee swings) 1 min cd, lasts 20 seconds
    • Divine purpose now baseline.
    • Level 75 talents replaced.

    All of these changes will move ret away from only being useful every 3-5mins, to useful all the time as sustained damage will be increased while burst is nerfed.

    • Censure duration reduced to 15 seconds.
    • *New ability* Spread the Light - Your next judgement causes your current censure stack to spread to all targets within 10 yards.
    • Censure damage buffed by x% if PvE dps is lacking after previous changes.

    This should help with spread pressure and make Ret more viable in RBGs

    If anyone else has any ideas, leave a response!
    U forgot to mention inqui will be available only with 3 holly power BUT it wont consume the hp

  14. #14
    You had your time at the top paladins. Take your crying elsewhere.

  15. #15
    ele shamans say hi even in twitter they troled( joked) about that shamans cant be buffed

  16. #16
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    There are always people posting good fixes and ideas like these, the main problem is getting Blizzard to actually listen..

    No matter how good the idea is, they always seem to ignore it and do their own thing that normally causes more problems.

  17. #17
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrinvisable2 View Post
    ele shamans say hi even in twitter they troled( joked) about that shamans cant be buffed
    Ele shamans may have issues in Arena/1v1, but they do well in RBGs at the moment.

    Pretty much the same as Ret Paladin, basically. As to which is worse, that is the question.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-28 at 11:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    There are always people posting good fixes and ideas like these, the main problem is getting Blizzard to actually listen..

    No matter how good the idea is, they always seem to ignore it and do their own thing that normally causes more problems.
    Pretty much. When you have GC saying Paladins are pretty much 'exactly where they want them to be right now', rerolling becomes an attractive prospect.
    In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers, we are not simply protecting their trivial old age, we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956

  18. #18
    Rtf made some suggestions, not something like "change X,make it better" but a far more detailed changes and in order to argue with him u didnt even read them but instead u keep posting about a "weaker" class? "U had ur top paladins", "wtf stop crying there is X class whos weaker"? I cant understand you at all.....

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