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  1. #181
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    If the rep grinds were the only way to get to gear, then a minus. They're not though and not even close to that so it's sort of a neutral in that respect. I don't mind dailies but I don't do them every day and don't bother myself about feeling forced to do anything at all. I'm doing pretty much anything and everything I want to in the game. And they're always there if I want to do something while I'm in queue so I tend to view them as a plus in terms of "things to do at 90".

    So really, the whole "I'm forced to do dailies" argument is more amusement for me than anything else. Short-sighted players who can't see the choices they have aren't really my problem.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-01-27 at 11:40 PM.
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  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Masterpd85 View Post
    as much of a douche comment this is, I half way agree.

    Back in cata the facerolling, elbow mashing, pally players from wrath got a rude awakening when the paladin class changed... and they complained. (helped separate the fails from the rest).
    no class, beside probably enhancement shamans, had a challenging roation in wotlk, besides, many players use a clcret equivalent for their class , making every rotation faceroll anyway.

    but the complaining about rets in 3.0 and wotlk never seems to stop, which is laughable.
    Last edited by Soulslaver; 2013-01-27 at 11:42 PM.

  3. #183
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    Yes, many raiders will use every advantage that they can get, but if one of those is gated in an unreasonable way then there is no reason why it couldn't be brought up as a quality of life issue. There is nothing wrong with criticism, as long as it's reasonable. It doesn't make a person less e-macho.
    I agree. But nothing in MoP is gated in an unreasonable way. We had the same VP gating in Cata and we had badge gating in Wrath/TBC.
    It's not as if he Valor cap is something new.

    The rep doesn't gate you in any way, esp. on alts. My little huntress has rep w/o end, but no Valor to buy squat.

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  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    Could you please tell me where in raiding, dungeons and LFR can I get the crafting patterns that are available via dailies?

    Many people play for crafting/the economy etc. The entire game isn't raiding.

    That said I agree it's optional, but it's a game, everything is optional. That doesn't mean you aren't excessively limited in what you can do if you don't do dailies/don't want to quest/can't log in frequently i.e. a basically daily basis/or have disjointed blocks of playtime etc.
    OP was talking about gear, so the context of my response was in relation to his initial point.

    Secondly, not everything in the game will be distroed fairly. If you want to play the "economy" game. You don't need patterns, you need to be good at economics, if you want the optional patterns that aren't required to play the auction house, then you're going to have to get two reps up to revered (iirc).
    #blizzisevilebecausetheyarepreventingmefromenjoyingtheirproductswithapricetag #blizzardisprovidinganadditionalservicethatpeopleaskedforandthepeoplewhodidntaskforitarepi ssedbecausetheywanteverythinghandedtothemlikeentitledassholes #whydoessubwaycharge5bucksforasandwichwhenicouldeatmyneighborsdogshitforfree #mcdonaldsmakesenoughmoneyishouldgettheirfoodforfree

  5. #185
    [/COLOR]It is a total minus and delinking it from dungeon grinding was the dumbest thing they could have thought of. It appears at least the developers have acknowledged this and their is no gear behind the dailies anymore and rep from other methods. It's a good change and one brought about by overwhelming feedback that said not only are dailies gay but the gear behind them is likewise gay and the pace of the game is also slow as fuck.

    Now of course virtually no one will complain that rep grinding from raids is forced or required. I wonder why that is. Maybe because IT REALLY FELT FORCED WHEN YOU HAD DAILIES WITH GEAR BECAUSE NOBODY WOULD TOUCH FUCKING DAILIES OTHERWISE. Or next to nobody. Idiots on the officials forums and on this one IN TOTAL DENIAL about the compulsion generated from having such good gear, such overwhelming REWARD behind one activity should be silent now I hope. Then again probably not. All that matters is that the developers came around. I'm glad the developers came to their god damned senses. It took them far to long but here we are.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-01-30 at 05:03 AM.

  6. #186
    Unsubbed because I refuse to do more dailies. Preferred tabard rep in instances, even if they capped it each day I'd be more inclined to do it. I enjoy doing heroics and smaller content with friends during the limited time I have to play at the moment. Usually the counter argument is you dont need rep gear if your intention is not to raid. I'd prefer to make a little progress each day than not at all but I left the raid group after we cleared DS H before some nerfs. Most casual friends and guildies seem to enjoy the cultural adaptation and reputation options this expansion thus far however. Personally not interested, I'll see whats next. Didn't level to 90 to continue leveling with dailies each day, least that's how I see it.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Shampro View Post
    Its a compulsive thing the community has lately, they think they deserve everything without putting any kind of effort.
    Actually, I think of WoW as more of a game, and that it's Blizzard's job to avoid making the game something I dislike intensely. Like Golden Lotus dailies.

    You've confused a game, that you pay to enjoy, with real life, where you work for money.

  8. #188
    Doing dailies bothered me at first, but now i'm used to them. I don't like them either and probably never will but I do them.

  9. #189
    Bloodsail Admiral Jawless Jones's Avatar
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    dailies suck ass and have always sucked ass

    dont know why blizztard thought to make a whole god damn expac about crappy, boring, repetitive dailies, the tabard system worked fine in wrath and cata (and i didnt feel 'forced to do dungeons', like blizzard says)
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombiebob
    I'm still waiting on someone to tell me where all these people that suddenly care about Warrior balance were during Cataclysm when they were blow up dolls with plate armor on.
    Quote Originally Posted by cutterx2202 View Post
    Stop complaining to solve your lack of ability, and start reading and practicing to gain ability. Stop trying to bring people down to your level instead of striving to raise yours.

  10. #190
    Brewmaster DieFichte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    Actually, I think of WoW as more of a game, and that it's Blizzard's job to avoid making the game something I dislike intensely. Like Golden Lotus dailies.

    You've confused a game, that you pay to enjoy, with real life, where you work for money.
    You confused something you have to do (well you don't have to work for money, but the alternatives aren't really that shiny) with something you can very well not do if it isn't fun. (Like dailies, or playing the game at all)

    And Blizzard did the job and avoided making something you dislike (Because you know, they made it for people that like it, or do you suddenly represent all the players? You don't have to answer that, as you either say no or I know you are lying). Or should they make a loading screen text "You don't have to get reputation with Golden Lotus to play this game" ?
    Last edited by DieFichte; 2013-01-30 at 07:13 AM.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by DieFichte View Post
    You confused something you have to do (well you don't have to work for money, but the alternatives aren't really that shiny) with something you can very well not do if it isn't fun. (Like dailies, or playing the game at all)

    And Blizzard did the job and avoided making something you dislike (Because you know, they made it for people that like it, or do you suddenly represent all the players? You don't have to answer that, as you either say no or I know you are lying). Or should they make a loading screen text "You don't have to get reputation with Golden Lotus to play this game" ?
    Well you dont have to do dailies but the alternatives are really shitty. I mean I don't have to play wow at all, and I'm guessing that people realized this when Blizzard put all that reward behind daily quests. Hence DAILY QUESTS in 5.2 DON'T HAVE VALOR GEAR BEHIND THEM. I see this argument around alot and I have to ask do you really think the developer want's to encourage people not to play their game? or not to make use of their choices? I expect them to create systems that I will enjoy doing, not systems I can avoid doing.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by DieFichte View Post
    You confused something you have to do (well you don't have to work for money, but the alternatives aren't really that shiny) with something you can very well not do if it isn't fun. (Like dailies, or playing the game at all)

    And Blizzard did the job and avoided making something you dislike (Because you know, they made it for people that like it, or do you suddenly represent all the players? You don't have to answer that, as you either say no or I know you are lying). Or should they make a loading screen text "You don't have to get reputation with Golden Lotus to play this game" ?
    I'd sort of like to reply to you, but I can't understand what you said, because when I diagrammed your sentences, they looked like Razorfen Kraul.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 10:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Well you dont have to do dailies but the alternatives are really shitty. I mean I don't have to play wow at all, and I'm guessing that people realized this when Blizzard put all that reward behind daily quests.
    I think that Blizzard felt "more dailies" would be "more fun stuff to do." But that would only be the case if the dailies were fun. In the case of GL dailies they are entirely the opposite of fun.

    The fact that you have to do GL dailies just to unlock factions that you have to grind to get patterns is the thing that puts it over the top for me. I don't give a shit about valor gear. But grinding at 110 rep per quest just to unlock another faction I have to grind (if I want XYZ pattern, which I do), that sucks ass.

    By "sucks ass" I mean "is not fun."

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    I'd sort of like to reply to you, but I can't understand what you said, because when I diagrammed your sentences, they looked like Razorfen Kraul.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 10:22 PM ----------


    I think that Blizzard felt "more dailies" would be "more fun stuff to do." But that would only be the case if the dailies were fun. In the case of GL dailies they are entirely the opposite of fun.

    The fact that you have to do GL dailies just to unlock factions that you have to grind to get patterns is the thing that puts it over the top for me. I don't give a shit about valor gear. But grinding at 110 rep per quest just to unlock another faction I have to grind (if I want XYZ pattern, which I do), that sucks ass.

    By "sucks ass" I mean "is not fun."
    To be honest Shado Pan wasn't really fun either. The island with the mobs was a pain in the ass. I've never had fun with daillies, had far more fun in dungeons but I could stomach something like Cloud Serpents. Cloud serpents was really well done. Really rewarding.

  14. #194
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    Yet you aren't forced, Just cause they have purple rewards at the end doesn't mean your forced to do them. You can progress very easy without them, those rewards from dailies are rewards for people who want to complete them or lore nuts like myself. If there was nothing they would be pointless.

    Dailies have been in the game since TBC & have always had been like this, I continue to say this and will continue to think people only complain about dailies this time around for the sake of complaining and not being able to have the best gear or 489 gear at there disposal without putting some effort in. The things that I hated about Wrath & Cata the most was how easy it was to gear up a character with minimal to no effort at all.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    Yet you aren't forced, Just cause they have purple rewards at the end doesn't mean your forced to do them. You can progress very easy without them, those rewards from dailies are rewards for people who want to complete them or lore nuts like myself. If there was nothing they would be pointless.

    Dailies have been in the game since TBC & have always had been like this, I continue to say this and will continue to think people only complain about dailies this time around for the sake of complaining and not being able to have the best gear or 489 gear at there disposal without putting some effort in. The things that I hated about Wrath & Cata the most was how easy it was to gear up a character with minimal to no effort at all.
    Dailies have been in the game BUT HAVE NEVER HAD SUCH OVERWHELMING REWARD TIED TO THEM. It's always been dungeons. That's the key. Luckily regardless of your ignorance and the general ignorance of the forum population, BLIZZARD HAS REMOVED GEAR FROM DAILIES. To fucking bad for you.

    Saying you aren't forced is a horrible argument, and I'm guessing the developers have realized this as well. Eventually it leads to the realization that you aren't forced to play wow and thus people leave. Content that isn't paced properly or isn't rewarding enough is equally as boring as having exhausted all relevant and rewarding content. Ergo people get bored and leave the game because IT FEELS LIKE A FUCKING CHORE and when you tell them they don't have to do the chore the rest of their progress is so stymied and slow because well they have no where to spend their valor and are left to be subject to RNG. In other words gearing without valor gear is slow but telling people not to do it is even slower so people feel compelled. Nobody wants to drive 20 in a 60 zone.

    In the end the developers have gladly realized that DE LINKING rep from activities people liked doing (dungeons and raiding) just made rep grindy and a pain in the ass and a fucking chore, regardless of wether or not it's "optional". Saying it's optional is not an excuse for POOR FUCKING DESIGN. Just because you can argue that on some technicality users don't have to participate in said content, doesn't make said content good. Christ RAIDS are optional.. does that mean raids should be tuned to be as hard and slow and grindy as shit? Like you can make that case about everything in the game. The developers are not in the business of making content for people to ignore.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-01-30 at 05:53 PM.

  16. #196
    In Wrath, factions were a parallel form of gearing up. Exalted gave you epic item level 200 gear, comparable to the gear you'd get in heroic dungeons. You could grind out the 4 or 5 dailies offered by a faction, or buy a tabard to wear into dungeons to slowly get rep from killing enemies and bosses. I usually did both, and I liked that I wasn't dependent on one or the other to do so. In the end, getting reputation and buying gear was to fill in holes for slots I didn't get heroic gear in. You could also save up the Justice points to go to Dalaran or the Argent Tournament and buy tier gear when that was made available.

    In Pandaria, I was fortunate enough to have been able to mostly gear my character in item level 463 heroic gear from just running heroics. I actually didn't have to run any more than twice, though having no one to roll against for DPS caster cloth gear helped too. But now I'm sitting on a ton of valor points, with no way to spend them. I bought the 489 amulet from the Klaxxi, but that's only because I just happened to be Honored from doing the quests in Dread Wastes. Most other gear is locked behind Revered status for the other factions.

    This is problematic, because the gear sold by the rep vendors is almost 2 steps above what I can get by simply dungeon delving. If I want to buy that gear, my only option is to do the dailies. Not only that, but Blizzard has also been locking storyline quests (Patch 5.1) or faction development story behind your rep level. Do I really have to collect 10 waxy Alliance ears, kill 30 peasants, etc. every day for 3 weeks straight just so I can be eligible for another scrap of story? I'd rather not.

    I ran the two LFR Mogu'shan Vault raids last week, since I just barely passed the item level 460 requirement. Super easy, I even got a new weapon out of it, even though I spent all 3 charms in there. Ironically, the charms didn't give me anything but money. And I find it a bit fitting that the UI for spending a charm is a figurative "slot machine". So now the next step is Heart of Fear or the Terrace of Endless Spring, right? Nope, gotta make it to 470 for that. After all the upgrading I did, I think I'm sitting at 465, but that's only because of the epic PVP trinket that dropped from the Alliance 5.1 daily place. It would sure be nice if I could spend these valor points on something...

    I despise dailies. I've done all the ones available to me at least once, just to see what they were like. I did repeat some of the trivial ones, like farming or fishing, but have stopped doing those as well. I would like to at least try the Shado-Panda or August Celestials ones at least once as well, but unfortunately they are locked until you get Revered with Golden Lotus. And seeing how I'm only 475/6000 Friendly with them, with 5 days left on my sub, there's no way to make it. Despite how much time I could pour into the game right now.

    Dailies are a blatant time-sink to stretch out subscription time. To paraphrase someone else's comment on a WoW site, it's amazing the lengths people will go to defend Blizzard's actions on this. Even to the point of calling other players "lazy" or "entitled". I don't consider myself lazy in the context of the game. I have a lot of time to put into the game. 8 hour nights, 12 hours on weekends. If this were Wrath, I could be banging out heroics to slowly get my rep up, even though I don't even need anything in them now. At least heroics are more engaging than rescuing Lao from the Mogu yet again, and I could do them more than once a day. What I won't do is stretch my sub over 3 months while mindlessly doing dailies just because they don't want people to "finish content too quickly".

    I've seen the argument many times in many places that "You don't have to do dailies"; "No one's forcing you to do them." Well, my choices lie between: do the dailies for the next couple weeks/months to unlock the better gear; do LFR once a week for a 15% shot at the "slot machine" (extra tries come at the price of more dailies, heh heh); or just stop playing. I think this is a terrible situation. Dailies should be a supplement to reputation progression, not the sole means. I believe Blizzard might just be starting to wise up, what with the new reputation bonus button coming to LFD, but too bad it only seems to work once a day.

    Forced rep grinding? Definitely a big minus.

  17. #197
    I laugh at anyone who calls dailies a rep grind, I played FFXI for 7 years so I know what a real grind is. Asian MMO's focus on the grind and they actually make you work for hours on end for the benefits that they give you. Anyone kicking puppies over having to do *random* dailies for 5-15 minutes a day for 2-3 weeks really just looks infantile to me.

  18. #198
    How is this forced upon you? You don't need the rewards. You want them.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  19. #199
    I laugh at anyone who brags about mindless hours spent wasted in a completely unrelated game like it means anything except they are a total dumbass.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinjin View Post
    I laugh at anyone who brags about mindless hours spent wasted in a completely unrelated game like it means anything except they are a total dumbass.
    Comparing dailies from other MMO's makes you a dumbass?
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

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