Forced rep grinding? A plus or minus in MoP

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

If my friends want me at X ilvl to join their raid, and I want to be at X item level so I am not a hinderance to the raid group, and LFR is fucking me, then what am I do? Just find another game? That's retarded. It was never like this before, it was better. if I needed a piece of gear, I put the work in doing dungeons to get valor, and then I bought that piece of gear. It was perfect. It was unbroken. It's garbage now

Valor rewards behind daily quests is terrible design. The game is better in 5.2 then it is now.

---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 08:13 PM ----------



I resubbed a few months into this Xpac. My friends were done with the reputations, thus they had no reason to do them. Not to mention...daily quests aren't fun, at all. I enjoy heroic dungeons, I enjoy trying to blitz them down as quickly as possible with a friend as a tank in a group with my guild. I don't enjoy flying from point a to point b to collect a bear ass and then flying back to point a to get my bear-ass reward.

Yes, unsub and stop ruining this game.

[Mordredofmia]

Yes, unsub and stop ruining this game.

Gonna stick around, things are already improving. You're free to find some shitty ass asian grind festival though. I hear you can play for days and get jack and shit, sounds right up your ally

[shokter]

If my friends want me at X ilvl to join their raid, and I want to be at X item level so I am not a hinderance to the raid group, and LFR is fucking me, then what am I do? Just find another game? That's retarded. It was never like this before, it was better.

Maybe try and reason with your friends? Why would you 'need' ilvl 489 gear to clear content that drops ilvl 489 gear? The problem lies with your friends' expectations and their (and your) understanding of what valor gear is meant for. You don;t need every purple item out there before you set foot in normal mode raids. You may think you do...but you do not.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Gonna stick around, things are already improving. You're free to find some shitty ass asian grind festival though. I hear you can play for days and get jack and shit, sounds right up your ally

Sorry that I don't want free gear all the time. Especially when you don't need it to progress into LFR in the slightest.

[Mordredofmia]

Maybe try and reason with your friends? Why would you 'need' ilvl 489 gear to clear content that drops ilvl 489 gear? The problem lies with your friends' expectations and their (and your) understanding of what valor gear is meant for. You don;t need every purple item out there before you set foot in normal mode raids. You may think you do...but you do not.

The previous system worked a lot better. I think blizzard's understand of valor gear doesn't match up to the realities of the game, as has been demonstrated by the tremendous negative feedback daily quests have generated.

And either way, the issues I brought up are ones I already went through. I'm not complaining about the PROSPECT of doing all those dailies, then the idea of doing any of them on my alts makes me sick to my stomach. I'm already done with all the dailies. Revered across the board except the 5.1 faction because I just could not do another fucking daily in this x-pac. So sick of them.

My complaints here are to keep this from becoming the norm, because imo, it's a complete failure of a system. I'm so glad Blizzard seems to have woken up. And when 5.2 goes loud I will be clamoring with support for the new system because it is, just from looking, so so so so so so much better.

[Deleted]

Who needs rep gear at this point ? (Other than Domination offensive stuff I guess.)
Seriously, Heroics, LFR, Normals, Up your ilvl if you don't raid heroics, or raid heroics and then up your ilvl when you do.

Only scrubs need rep gear at this point, and I mean that with no malice whatsoever.

I also don't believe that anyone is forced to do anything in game, and if you feel that way, then unsub imediately since the game is obviously having a negative effect on your psyche.

[Landin55]

Big minus. I mean who thought that was a god idea? It was hardly an incentive to do the rep. I mean, even the incentive in TBC was only honored in some cases, which you got by questing. And after they removed them, people still did them for the mounts

---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 07:46 PM ----------



Let me just fix this up for you. Yeah, it's always been like that, but I have never had to do rep to be able to farm heroics to get gear. Wrath and below, once you got the rep, it just cost some Gold. it didnt cost VP, it was a nice idea, and having heroic keys would make people rage, but in the end, the incentive for these should never have been raiding based. they should have been like they always have. Some fancy mount at exalted, and a few blues and epic gear for gold, that you do when you're bored, not Day to Day endlessly cause you have to.

cause you know what this did? It ruined the idea of running heroics and senarios for a lot of people. you get capped in valor just by doing the rep you have to do, and makes heroics pointless. I havent been in one since I got 360. furthermore, even in TBC you got rep in dungeons from mob kills, that was nothing new. Wrath just made it so you could get a specific rep instead of the one the heroic was based on.

No BC you had to farm Dailies/normals (even worse!) or just quest the whole damn area to get into heroics.... Also why don't you people just LFR....Cause by now hopefully your guild has easily geared you past rep gear or you would be doing LFR anyhow in H blue gear to get LFR epics.....

[Mordredofmia]

Sorry that I don't want free gear all the time. Especially when you don't need it to progress into LFR in the slightest.

So I got free gear every other expansion when I did raids, did dungeons, and earned emblems of frost, then valor points, then bought my gear? Is that what you're saying? Every expansion before this just had gear vending machines that required no work or effort or time to do? Is that really the idea you're putting forth? That everything besides gear gated behind daily quests is "free"? That unless I am actively not having fun playing the game while I progress towards getting my gear it doesn't count, that it was "free gear"?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

No BC you had to farm Dailies/normals (even worse!) or just quest the whole damn area to get into heroics....

Grinding and using CC? NOOB OVERLOAD!

---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 08:25 PM ----------

So I got free gear every other expansion when I did raids, did dungeons, and earned emblems of frost, then valor points, then bought my gear? Is that what you're saying? Every expansion before this just had gear vending machines that required no work or effort or time to do? Is that really the idea you're putting forth? That everything besides gear gated behind daily quests is "free"? That unless I am actively not having fun playing the game while I progress towards getting my gear it doesn't count, that it was "free gear"?

No, I am saying thats what you want. Your whole attitude for playing is gear centric.

[Gurbz]

It's you folk and your "IT MUST BE HARD WORK YOU NEED TO LOG ON AND SLAVE OVER THE REPUTATION GRINDS AND FIGHT AND MURDER AND KILL AND THEN YOU CAN HAVE A PURPLE ITEM AND JOIN US IN THE GOD KING CIRCLE OF WOW PLAYERS" that are the problem here. I don't understand the stand you guys take to make the game that much less fun and more of a chore.

It's because myself and many people like me believe that the model of character progression in Cata, and to a lesser extent Wrath, is fundamentally flawed and will ultimately lead to the downfall of the game. It has nothing to do with keeping top tier raiding as an exclusive group. Allowing players to go from a brand new character to fully raid geared in a matter of days, then quickly followed by BiS raid geared in a matter of weeks, leads to no other possible conclusion besides bored players and dropped subs. Granted, going too far the other way will cause a loss of subs as well. But a situation where there is too much to do or it takes a long time is far better, in my opinion and apparently that of the developers, than too little content that is too quickly completed. I have no problem with catch up mechanics, and those mechanics should be faster than what those who have been playing since release went through. They should not be instant or nearly so as we saw in both Wrath and Cata.

I'm glad you are getting options for the rep grind. I think it is slightly amusing that so many complainers have been satisfied by Blizzard adding an option that will take just as much time as the other alternatives to valor gear that already existed, such as gearing through LFR alone, even though they kept saying that the other avenues available to them were not acceptable because they took too much time. You really are not gaining anything other than a different way to progress slower.

You say it was our whining that caused this. I very highly doubt that. What more likely caused this, based on the comments I have seen from Blizzard, was the large number of people that played for a month or so when a new patch hit then cancelled until the next one came out.

[Landin55]

Grinding and using CC? NOOB OVERLOAD!

IKR? Hell you had to CC normals back then at level cap. Remember Hellfire Ramparts with all the adds?

[Deleted]

Why should I drop the genre when I can try to make it better? It works, 5.2 is a better patch then 5.1 and 5.1 was a better patch then 5.0? I don't find heroic runs a job, I enjoy doing dungeons and scenarios but because of the awful daily gating I've been doing that nonsense instead of playing with my friends, which I used to be able to do at the same time via the tabard function. Might i suggest you go play a game that's chained to the past with horrific game design and let the rest of us push the genre into the future? And your "drop the genre" comment ignores the fact that the expansions that got me INTO THE GENRE had a better system, that has now become WORSE. Also are you high? Golden lotus dailies alone are 30 minutes. Shado-pan is another 15-20, august celestials a good 10 minutes, Klaxxi is another 30 minutes. I get like 3 hours to play a day TOPS. Sorry I'd like to be able to do things that aren't badly designed daily quests. You guys pay $15 a month too, why are you so happy to accept such garbage as "content"

I said 20-30 minutes, because I assumed from you posts you where the kind of person that may be missing one or to parts in order to get the required ilvl to get into later LFR such as HOF or TOES. In that case, you only need to level one or two factions (considering you can get Klaxxi almost to honored solely by finishing Dread Waste questlines, you then need one and a half more week to get to revered). Also considering you may not need all the pieces from all the rep, you can drop golden lotus quests completely once you reach revered as well. This only leaves Shadow Pan and/or Celestial, which are both extremely quickly. So no I do not think I am high when I say that you can get rid of you dailies in 20-30 minutes a day. This may not be true the first week and a half, but then it is. You can then complete your valor cap in heroics, scenarios or wherever you want to.

As for myself, I simply enjoy playing my character. I was done very quickly with every rep in the game since I aimed at the Realm first:Pandaren amabassador FOS at the release of the Xpac, but I still run some faction dailies from time to time, either to get my valor cap a bit more quickly or simply because I feel like doing them.

[Mordredofmia]

No, I am saying thats what you want. Your whole attitude for playing is gear centric.

That's incorrect, a strawman, and hyperbole. The only thing I have said is "Locking valor rewards behind daily quests is horrible game design".

Everything else you yourself inferred or more likely stuck onto your replies to me in a bad attempt to invalidate and weaken my arguments and opinions about daily quest gating valor rewards being inferior game design to the previous models, where valor rewards were simply available and you were not forced to do daily quests to earn the "right" to buy valor gear.

I don't want free anything. I didn't skip anything. I put in the time for the dailies, I put in the time for the valor grind. And I'm saying it sucked, the daily part at least, and that going forward I'd like to see better design and better ideas and better incentives for people to be out in the world, not that I think people out in the world is really good for anything but it seems important to a lot of people that other paying subscribers run around in the backround of their screen doing mundane tasks. So I'd like to see those people happy and I'd like to see what got them so excited about people being out in the world. I don't think dailies are the way, not as they exist, because nothing has motivated me less to go out into the world then doing those dailies the first time.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

IKR? Hell you had to CC normals back then at level cap. Remember Hellfire Ramparts with all the adds?

Haha just quests you had to CC half the time.

[Mordredofmia]

I said 20-30 minutes, because I assumed from you posts you where the kind of person that may be missing one or to parts in order to get the required ilvl to get into later LFR such as HOF or TOES. In that case, you only need to level one or two factions (considering you can get Klaxxi almost to honored solely by finishing Dread Waste questlines, you then need one and a half more week to get to revered). Also considering you may not need all the pieces from all the rep, you can drop golden lotus quests completely once you reach revered as well. This only leaves Shadow Pan and/or Celestial, which are both extremely quickly. So no I do not think I am high when I say that you can get rid of you dailies in 20-30 minutes a day. This may not be true the first week and a half, but then it is. You can then complete your valor cap in heroics, scenarios or wherever you want to.

As for myself, I simply enjoy playing my character. I was done very quickly with every rep in the game since I aimed at the Realm first:Pandaren amabassador FOS at the release of the Xpac, but I still run some faction dailies from time to time, either to get my valor cap a bit more quickly or simply because I feel like doing them.

Hey man, I'm happy for you. That's an awesome achievement and I hope you got it.

My interests are different, I hope it's cool with you that I pursue other things and that I really enjoyed the way things were previous and that locking the stuff I want for the part of the game I enjoy behind a part I really hate doing has so far made this expansion drastically less fun for me then previous ones. Because I am totally cool with you having different interests then me and I'd never ever ask the game to be redesigned to force you to play the way that I want to. If I could gain rep without doing the dailies I'd be fine with them as a gating mechanism. But as it is, I just found it terrible to play through

[Ferocity]

No BC you had to farm Dailies/normals (even worse!) or just quest the whole damn area to get into heroics....

Interesting. I can't remember a single daily neither for Shatar, nor for Lower City, nor for Keepers of Time, nor for most others excluding cosmetic factions like Ogri'la, Netherwing and Skettis. I guess we played different game.

And what is wrong in farming normals? You need to do like 100500 normals to get from lv85 to 90 (lol doing 2 leveling dungeons over and over, and then another 2 till your eyes bleed). How is it better compared to TBC (with so much more dungeons for leveling), where you were at least getting something (rep) from those dungeons?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

That's incorrect, a strawman, and hyperbole. The only thing I have said is "Locking valor rewards behind daily quests is horrible game design".

Everything else you yourself inferred or more likely tacted in your replies to me in a bad attempt to invalidate and weaken my arguements and opinions about daily quest gating valor rewards being inferior game design to the previous models, where valor rewards were simply available and you were not forced to do daily quests to earn the "right" to buy valor gear.

I don't want free anything. I didn't skip anything. I put in the time for the dailies, I put in the time for the valor grind. And I'm saying it sucked, the daily part at least, and that going forward I'd like to see better design and better ideas and better incentives for people to be out in the world, not that I think people out in the world is really good for anything but it seems important to a lot of people that other paying subscribers run around in the backround of their screen doing mundane tasks. So I'd like to see those people happy and I'd like to see what got them so excited about people being out in the world. I don't think dailies are the way, not as they exist, because nothing has motivated me less to go out into the world then doing those dailies the first time.

False. Its not a straw man. Your motivations in why you whine so much are very relevant to this topic. All grinds "sucks," but with an attitude like yours, being gear centric, you are only having a good time when you get gear, and get gear often. This is why people bitch about RNG, they whine about gating etc etc. Cata was a horrible model, one I am sure you loved and probably unsubbed after sailing through with ease, not with your "skill" but because the game was so overly accessible and easy that any person with hands and arms could do it.

You can easily do 15 minutes of dailies in a group, then sit in Org and wait for your LFD queue to pop, so you can then slack off and complain about grinding that as well.

paying a sub does not entitle you to gear.

[shokter]

It's you folk and your "IT MUST BE HARD WORK YOU NEED TO LOG ON AND SLAVE OVER THE REPUTATION GRINDS AND FIGHT AND MURDER AND KILL AND THEN YOU CAN HAVE A PURPLE ITEM AND JOIN US IN THE GOD KING CIRCLE OF WOW PLAYERS" that are the problem here. I don't understand the stand you guys take to make the game that much less fun and more of a chore.

Yes these folks exist (and from your posts it seems your "friends" belong to this population). My question is why on earth you would want to play/raid with such players. Groups who demand valor epics to gain entry just to try and raid normal modes are (in my experience) often full of underperformers who view the valor purps as a panacea for poor play, strategy, and execution. I suggest trying to find better groups and also trying to understand your class and the encounters better rather than trying to grab every single epic out there in the hope of standing out.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Interesting. I can't remember a single daily neither for Shatar, nor for Lower City, nor for Keepers of Time, nor for most others excluding cosmetic factions like Ogri'la, Netherwing and Skettis. I guess we played different game.

And what is wrong in farming normals? You need to do like 100500 normals to get from lv85 to 90 (lol doing 2 leveling dungeons over and over, and then another 2 till your eyes bleed). How is it better compared to TBC (with so much more dungeons for leveling), where you were at least getting something (rep) from those dungeons?

They all had repeatable quests you could do for rep.

[Mordredofmia]

Yes these folks exist (and from your posts it seems your "friends" belong to this population). My question is why on earth you would want to play/raid with such players. Groups who demand valor epics to gain entry just to try and raid normal modes are (in my experience) often full of underperformers who view the valor purps as a panacea for poor play, strategy, and execution. I suggest trying to find better groups and also trying to understand your class and the encounters better rather than trying to grab every single epic out there in the hope of standing out.

I suggest not making assumptions with absolutely zero information because nothing you have assumed is correct. I understand my class and the encounters fine. I simply think the system where I was able to fill in the gaps in my gear without needing to do daily quests is a vastly superior system to the one currently implemented. And that a game design that forces you to do dailies to earn the right to fill in your gear gaps with valor, when it was previously available to everyone, was a bad change,

---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 08:43 PM ----------

False. Its not a straw man. Your motivations in why you whine so much are very relevant to this topic. All grinds "sucks," but with an attitude like yours, being gear centric, you are only having a good time when you get gear, and get gear often. This is why people bitch about RNG, they whine about gating etc etc. Cata was a horrible model, one I am sure you loved and probably unsubbed after sailing through with ease, not with your "skill" but because the game was so overly accessible and easy that any person with hands and arms could do it.

You can easily do 15 minutes of dailies in a group, then sit in Org and wait for your LFD queue to pop, so you can then slack off and complain about grinding that as well.

paying a sub does not entitle you to gear.

Once again the only thing you have to say is made up bullshit. So, suck it. The game changed. Valor gear locked behind dailies are gone. 5.2 will increase the chance of gear drops on the current LFR even further invalidating gear from dailies. You lost. Game over man, game over. Have fun on an asian grind. I love that you act like doing daily quests takes any amount of skill or talent. Get over yourself, you're holding the game back.