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  1. #301
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landin55 View Post
    IKR? Hell you had to CC normals back then at level cap. Remember Hellfire Ramparts with all the adds?
    Haha just quests you had to CC half the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Sethesh View Post
    I said 20-30 minutes, because I assumed from you posts you where the kind of person that may be missing one or to parts in order to get the required ilvl to get into later LFR such as HOF or TOES. In that case, you only need to level one or two factions (considering you can get Klaxxi almost to honored solely by finishing Dread Waste questlines, you then need one and a half more week to get to revered). Also considering you may not need all the pieces from all the rep, you can drop golden lotus quests completely once you reach revered as well. This only leaves Shadow Pan and/or Celestial, which are both extremely quickly. So no I do not think I am high when I say that you can get rid of you dailies in 20-30 minutes a day. This may not be true the first week and a half, but then it is. You can then complete your valor cap in heroics, scenarios or wherever you want to.

    As for myself, I simply enjoy playing my character. I was done very quickly with every rep in the game since I aimed at the Realm first:Pandaren amabassador FOS at the release of the Xpac, but I still run some faction dailies from time to time, either to get my valor cap a bit more quickly or simply because I feel like doing them.
    Hey man, I'm happy for you. That's an awesome achievement and I hope you got it.

    My interests are different, I hope it's cool with you that I pursue other things and that I really enjoyed the way things were previous and that locking the stuff I want for the part of the game I enjoy behind a part I really hate doing has so far made this expansion drastically less fun for me then previous ones. Because I am totally cool with you having different interests then me and I'd never ever ask the game to be redesigned to force you to play the way that I want to. If I could gain rep without doing the dailies I'd be fine with them as a gating mechanism. But as it is, I just found it terrible to play through
    Last edited by Mordredofmia; 2013-02-02 at 01:35 AM.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Landin55 View Post
    No BC you had to farm Dailies/normals (even worse!) or just quest the whole damn area to get into heroics....
    Interesting. I can't remember a single daily neither for Shatar, nor for Lower City, nor for Keepers of Time, nor for most others excluding cosmetic factions like Ogri'la, Netherwing and Skettis. I guess we played different game.

    And what is wrong in farming normals? You need to do like 100500 normals to get from lv85 to 90 (lol doing 2 leveling dungeons over and over, and then another 2 till your eyes bleed). How is it better compared to TBC (with so much more dungeons for leveling), where you were at least getting something (rep) from those dungeons?

  4. #304
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordredofmia View Post
    That's incorrect, a strawman, and hyperbole. The only thing I have said is "Locking valor rewards behind daily quests is horrible game design".

    Everything else you yourself inferred or more likely tacted in your replies to me in a bad attempt to invalidate and weaken my arguements and opinions about daily quest gating valor rewards being inferior game design to the previous models, where valor rewards were simply available and you were not forced to do daily quests to earn the "right" to buy valor gear.

    I don't want free anything. I didn't skip anything. I put in the time for the dailies, I put in the time for the valor grind. And I'm saying it sucked, the daily part at least, and that going forward I'd like to see better design and better ideas and better incentives for people to be out in the world, not that I think people out in the world is really good for anything but it seems important to a lot of people that other paying subscribers run around in the backround of their screen doing mundane tasks. So I'd like to see those people happy and I'd like to see what got them so excited about people being out in the world. I don't think dailies are the way, not as they exist, because nothing has motivated me less to go out into the world then doing those dailies the first time.
    False. Its not a straw man. Your motivations in why you whine so much are very relevant to this topic. All grinds "sucks," but with an attitude like yours, being gear centric, you are only having a good time when you get gear, and get gear often. This is why people bitch about RNG, they whine about gating etc etc. Cata was a horrible model, one I am sure you loved and probably unsubbed after sailing through with ease, not with your "skill" but because the game was so overly accessible and easy that any person with hands and arms could do it.

    You can easily do 15 minutes of dailies in a group, then sit in Org and wait for your LFD queue to pop, so you can then slack off and complain about grinding that as well.

    paying a sub does not entitle you to gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordredofmia View Post
    It's you folk and your "IT MUST BE HARD WORK YOU NEED TO LOG ON AND SLAVE OVER THE REPUTATION GRINDS AND FIGHT AND MURDER AND KILL AND THEN YOU CAN HAVE A PURPLE ITEM AND JOIN US IN THE GOD KING CIRCLE OF WOW PLAYERS" that are the problem here. I don't understand the stand you guys take to make the game that much less fun and more of a chore.
    Yes these folks exist (and from your posts it seems your "friends" belong to this population). My question is why on earth you would want to play/raid with such players. Groups who demand valor epics to gain entry just to try and raid normal modes are (in my experience) often full of underperformers who view the valor purps as a panacea for poor play, strategy, and execution. I suggest trying to find better groups and also trying to understand your class and the encounters better rather than trying to grab every single epic out there in the hope of standing out.
    "Brevity is...wit"

  6. #306
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Interesting. I can't remember a single daily neither for Shatar, nor for Lower City, nor for Keepers of Time, nor for most others excluding cosmetic factions like Ogri'la, Netherwing and Skettis. I guess we played different game.

    And what is wrong in farming normals? You need to do like 100500 normals to get from lv85 to 90 (lol doing 2 leveling dungeons over and over, and then another 2 till your eyes bleed). How is it better compared to TBC (with so much more dungeons for leveling), where you were at least getting something (rep) from those dungeons?
    They all had repeatable quests you could do for rep.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by shokter View Post
    Yes these folks exist (and from your posts it seems your "friends" belong to this population). My question is why on earth you would want to play/raid with such players. Groups who demand valor epics to gain entry just to try and raid normal modes are (in my experience) often full of underperformers who view the valor purps as a panacea for poor play, strategy, and execution. I suggest trying to find better groups and also trying to understand your class and the encounters better rather than trying to grab every single epic out there in the hope of standing out.
    I suggest not making assumptions with absolutely zero information because nothing you have assumed is correct. I understand my class and the encounters fine. I simply think the system where I was able to fill in the gaps in my gear without needing to do daily quests is a vastly superior system to the one currently implemented. And that a game design that forces you to do dailies to earn the right to fill in your gear gaps with valor, when it was previously available to everyone, was a bad change,

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 08:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    False. Its not a straw man. Your motivations in why you whine so much are very relevant to this topic. All grinds "sucks," but with an attitude like yours, being gear centric, you are only having a good time when you get gear, and get gear often. This is why people bitch about RNG, they whine about gating etc etc. Cata was a horrible model, one I am sure you loved and probably unsubbed after sailing through with ease, not with your "skill" but because the game was so overly accessible and easy that any person with hands and arms could do it.

    You can easily do 15 minutes of dailies in a group, then sit in Org and wait for your LFD queue to pop, so you can then slack off and complain about grinding that as well.

    paying a sub does not entitle you to gear.
    Once again the only thing you have to say is made up bullshit. So, suck it. The game changed. Valor gear locked behind dailies are gone. 5.2 will increase the chance of gear drops on the current LFR even further invalidating gear from dailies. You lost. Game over man, game over. Have fun on an asian grind. I love that you act like doing daily quests takes any amount of skill or talent. Get over yourself, you're holding the game back.
    Last edited by Mordredofmia; 2013-02-02 at 01:47 AM.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    They all had repeatable quests you could do for rep.
    I think dungeons specific factions (that is, Lower City, Thrallmar/Honor Hold, Sha'tar, Cenarion) had no repeatable quest to gain rep with them. The concept of "daily" quest appeared in 2.1, with the release of BT, Ogri'la and Netherwind Drakes. Other secondary factions (Scryers, Aldor) had/have repeatable turn in quests akin to the Klaxxi one.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    They all had repeatable quests you could do for rep.
    Hand-ins for Aldor/Scryers/Lower City =/= dailies, and they were acquirable on AH and had very high drop chance from mobs (much higher than 0.0000001% chance for Dread Amber or Key to Guo-Lai cache). And you didn't really had to grind mobs for repeatable hand-ins, many dungeons were raining marks and signets (and consequently - quite cheap on AH).

    Name me one "repeatable" daily for Shatar, Lower City (pass honored) and Keepers of Time. I won't be even mentioning raid-specific reps, though you said "They all had repeatable quests".

  10. #310
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordredofmia View Post
    [/COLOR]

    Once again the only thing you have to say is made up bullshit. So, suck it. The game changed. Valor gear locked behind dailies are gone. You lost. Game over man, game over. Have fun on an asian grind. I love that you act like doing daily quests takes any amount of skill or talent. Get over yourself, you're holding the game back.
    No, you are changing the game to suit your needs. Its just easier for you to afk through LFD's than do simple dailies. I hope you are proud of yourself for contributing to further killing a genre and further convincing Blizzard to sell out. You will never enjoy this game or any other with your entitled attitude. Soon you will be too bothered to even do LFD's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  11. #311
    The Lightbringer Firebane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordredofmia View Post
    Once again the only thing you have to say is made up bullshit. So, suck it. The game changed. Valor gear locked behind dailies are gone. 5.2 will increase the chance of gear drops on the current LFR even further invalidating gear from dailies. You lost. Game over man, game over. Have fun on an asian grind. I love that you act like doing daily quests takes any amount of skill or talent. Get over yourself, you're holding the game back.
    Valor gear is crap, I don't get this fixation that people have over it at this point.

    The tier is over, if you're raiding, you've probably already progressed far, and valor gear isn't a concern, item upgrading is.

    Rep grinding is for cosmetic purposes only as far as I'm concerned.
    I feel this because I only recently dinged my monk reroll, and have yet to buy a valor piece. (Upgrading Chi-ji and crafted gear takes precedent).

    Go back to LFr and heroic dungeons if you want casual content, and go back to heroic raids and challenge modes if you want hardcore content, leave dailys as what they are supposed to be: a grind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    I'm just being a smart ass at this point.

  12. #312
    I am Murloc! Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethesh View Post
    I think dungeons specific factions (that is, Lower City, Thrallmar/Honor Hold, Sha'tar, Cenarion) had no repeatable quest to gain rep with them. The concept of "daily" quest appeared in 2.1, with the release of BT, Ogri'la and Netherwind Drakes. Other secondary factions (Scryers, Aldor) had/have repeatable turn in quests akin to the Klaxxi one.
    Hellfire had repeatable quests involving PVP. Cenarion was the same way, with some dungeon drops you could do as well. Lower City had some quest I believe from Shatt you could pick up and repeat until revered I believe. The daily limitation was added in 2.1, but there were still repeatable quests even in the game in Vanilla.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 08:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebane View Post
    Valor gear is crap, I don't get this fixation that people have over it at this point.

    The tier is over, if you're raiding, you've probably already progressed far, and valor gear isn't a concern, item upgrading is.

    Rep grinding is for cosmetic purposes only as far as I'm concerned.
    I feel this because I only recently dinged my monk reroll, and have yet to buy a valor piece. (Upgrading Chi-ji and crafted gear takes precedent).

    Go back to LFr and heroic dungeons if you want casual content, and go back to heroic raids and challenge modes if you want hardcore content, leave dailys as what they are supposed to be: a grind.
    Its the gear obsession. They only want gear, care about gear, and only gear will make them happy. Its very sad. I have never really seen it this bad. If you are only happy when getting gear, why are you playing this game?
    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    Stupid! New things are always much better then the old things...
    New Star wars > old Star wars (crappy special effects anyone lol!)
    Justine Beiber > the beatles (shitty copycats music lol!)
    Twilligt > dracula, do I even need to comment loooool
    yea its probably nostalgia

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordredofmia View Post
    I suggest not making assumptions with absolutely zero information
    With respect you have provided plenty of info. You said somewhere you want to meet the ilvl demanded by your friends in order to raid with them... Not really gonna delve through the past 3 pages again but I really think your emphasis on the role/importance of valor is misplaced. If you read my posts here you will see I agree that gating the gear behind rep wasn't a great choice, but what I am arguing is that it wouldn't be as much an issue if individuals/groups didn't view it as a pre-requisite for normal raids. It is not needed...you are not forced... You feel forced. More Yoda...less Vader... folks would be more content.
    "Brevity is...wit"

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Interesting. I can't remember a single daily neither for Shatar, nor for Lower City, nor for Keepers of Time, nor for most others excluding cosmetic factions like Ogri'la, Netherwing and Skettis. I guess we played different game.

    And what is wrong in farming normals? You need to do like 100500 normals to get from lv85 to 90 (lol doing 2 leveling dungeons over and over, and then another 2 till your eyes bleed). How is it better compared to TBC (with so much more dungeons for leveling), where you were at least getting something (rep) from those dungeons?
    So you did do dailies? And had to farm rep to get into heroics by questing and doing normals? To get better gear to pvp/raid? +1 me -1 you?
    "I just wanted them to hand us our award! But they were just talk!, talk!, talk!......" - Wrathion

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    False. You don't have to do them. you are not forced, tricked, compelled or anything.
    That is absolutely incorrect. If Blizzard didn't want you to be COMPELLED TO DO THEM THEN THEY WOULDN'T HAVE GEAR ON THEM TO COMPEL YOU TO DO THEM. I do not know how else to say this. The whole point of the fucking gear is to LURE (RE: COMPEL) YOU TO RUN THE FUCKING DAILIES. Otherwise most of you people wouldn't touch them BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T BE COMPELLING ENOUGH TO DO. I cannot believe you people or Blizzard for hiding behind you. Christ...

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Landin55 View Post
    So you did do dailies? And had to farm rep to get into heroics by questing and doing normals? To get better gear to pvp/raid? +1 me -1 you?
    People can play in word-game whatever way they want. By playing in word game you can prove that Elephant = Mouse, and what not. Even worse is when people try to play word-game while responding to someone without actually reading what that person wrote. Nevertheless, it doesn't change the real nature of things.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    People can play in word-game whatever way they want. By playing in word game you can prove that Elephant = Mouse, and what not. Even worse, is when people try to play word-game while responding to someone without actually reading what they wrote. Nevertheless, it doesn't change the real nature of things.
    You never played BC did you? To get into heroics you needed a key....to get the key you need to buy it from the rep quartermaster. To get the required rep you needed to quest or run normals.
    "I just wanted them to hand us our award! But they were just talk!, talk!, talk!......" - Wrathion

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    That is absolutely incorrect. If Blizzard didn't want you to be COMPELLED TO DO THEM THEN THEY WOULDN'T HAVE GEAR ON THEM TO COMPEL YOU TO DO THEM. I do not know how else to say this. The whole point of the fucking gear is to LURE (RE: COMPEL) YOU TO RUN THE FUCKING DAILIES. Otherwise most of you people wouldn't touch them BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T BE COMPELLING ENOUGH TO DO. I cannot believe you people or Blizzard for hiding behind you. Christ...
    Typing in caps doesn't make your ideas any more true. I think the word you are looking for is 'impel' and not 'compel'. There is a difference between 'feeling' that you need something (impelled) and 'actually needing' (compelled) that thing.
    "Brevity is...wit"

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Landin55 View Post
    You never played BC did you? To get into heroics you needed a key....to get the key you need to buy it from the rep quartermaster. To get the required rep you needed to quest or run normals.
    There wasn't a single one repetable quests for most of factions. Is it so hard to read? Is it so hard to read that people want rep from dungeons (!!!) not from dailies, where tanks and healers are pushed into killing 9999999999 HP mobs. What is unclear here? Atm there is no sense not only in running "normals", 5-men heroics are absolute and complete waste of time. Is it so hard to understand?

    And even when players are done with rep grind, they have charms grind - which means they are bound to do those damn dailies far after exalted till developers will fix this broken system.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by shokter View Post
    Typing in caps doesn't make your ideas any more true. I think the word you are looking for is 'impel' and not 'compel'. There is a difference between 'feeling' that you need something (impelled) and 'actually needing' (compelled) that thing.
    I don't really care what fucking sophistry you want to attribute to it. IT's SHIT no matter how you spell it. The simple fact is that the reward is put behind the daily quests so that people have a lure to do them. You can't then turn around and say you shouldn't feel lured to do them when the lure is their in the first place. You don't put a piece of cheese at the end of the fucking maze and then ask hey why did the mouse go for the cheese. WoW is a GIANT SKINNER BOX and the cheese has been moved to daily quests. HENCE the people playing the guy feel COMPELLED NOT IMPELLED to do the fucking quests and because the pellet isn't as good or as rewarding as they've been used to in the past they are frustrated.

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