Forced rep grinding? A plus or minus in MoP

[Icaras]

Yeah I mean previous xpacs NEVER had gear locked behind...oh wait, they did.

Cept now you're used to running heroics til your eyes bleed then buying a bunch of BoE valor gear with alts to boost your item level.

THEN complaining that you're bored and have nothing to do, and why are epics so easy to get anyway, look at all the people with vendor epics this SUUUUCCCKKSS!!

...cept when they're not easy to get coz then THAT'S A CHORE! I CBFed with all this stuff to do (Said I was bored? Wanted more content? Nah that ain't me) Why can't I just farm heroics and get all my gear (But just me, or otherwise everyone will do it and then the gear will be trash epics...)

[Csnyder]

ive done it both ways, one toon i did all the questing and rep stuff to start to gear then went into raids but on another toon i did no dailies at all, my rep is low on all mop factions and i went into heroics and then lfr and then into normal raids. the grinding toon is at 492 my non rep grinding toon is at 490. it is by no way forced and can be achieved without the dailies just as easy and in about the same amount of time involved. you are not forced at all to go the route you are, you didnt try both ways so have no clue as to how easy it is to avoid the grind.

[orangelemonrain]

ive got most reps at revered and a few at exalted before I got bored of them, doesn't bother me too much because HoF and ToES normal drops are higher than it

I'd rather see it done a little differently

for example, if there was to be a reputation that ruled over all the others, if you earned rep in one faction, it would also be applied to the main expansions faction, which would be the faction that gives the gear etc.

[Orbitus]

Blizzard said it right. You aren't forced to do reps, they aren't required. You WANT something from them, so they feel forced to you. So the matter is subjective. It doesn't mean they are forced on everyone else.

[ihyln]

I think their new option to allow for rep gains through LFD and LFR is, and I know I'm about to open pandora's box, proof they actually listen to the community.

Sometimes they don't - yet this time they did - but, knowing *us* as I do, everyone will still bitch about how they ignore everything the players ask for.

No, it's just proof that Ghostcrawler is an idiot. He took something that didn't need to be changed and made the whole system worse for the sake of changing it. He has done this EVERY expansion and they end up losing subs as a result. Remember "dungeons should be hard"? Well, I log in to enjoy the game, not to work in game chores.

[Zerdus]

I hated it at first but now they've grown on me. I stopped at Revered for all but Klaxxi (which I'm working on right now to get to Exalted for the ring), and I got to Exalted with the Order of the Cloud Serpent for the mount of course. For the first few weeks it felt a lot like a chore but then I started enjoying doing them because it gave me a lot to do, unlike in Cataclysm when I logged in two nights a week to raid. You only really need to get to Revered with the factions so it shouldn't take more than 3–4 weeks before you're all done. However even that's a little long.

I think Blizzard needs to find a good equilibrium between reputation from dailies and reputation from heroic dungeons. That way you can do a combination of both (but not one on its own) to gain reputation. I also think reducing the amount of reputation required for the various levels would also be a good idea.

I suggest you keep doing the dailies and I think you'll start to enjoy them. Especially the Dominance Offensive/Shieldwall ones, those are a lot of fun.

[Aluminum]

World of Chorecraft, big minus.

The pittance of rep from some of the factions at MoP launch was downright insulting. The GL revered lock was a slap in the face, not only will we dole out the grind slowly, we will gate it some more.

[Wildtree]

I think its total bullsh*t how we have to farm rep to get gear.... Im not saying make it easy to get items but this way is the worst thing blizz has ever done tbh.

The gear for Rep concept is as old as Vanilla WoW. I don't know what people were playing all those years.
Suddenly everyone acts as if it's the new discovery of the games mechanics. The only thing that actually changed was to get a step back to TBC times, where plenty of stuff was gated behind multiple factions reputations. And once it was reached with a main, there wasn't the least incentive to get it any easier with an alt. Today, when people have alts it's kind of a "so what" 8 alts, big deal... Back then it was even an accomplishment to have alts at max level and decently geared, since the efforts from toon 1 to toon X have always been the same to be put in.
As for myself, I enjoyed that concept a lot more than the hand-out mentality of today.

[Lemonpartyfan]

ive done it both ways, one toon i did all the questing and rep stuff to start to gear then went into raids but on another toon i did no dailies at all, my rep is low on all mop factions and i went into heroics and then lfr and then into normal raids. the grinding toon is at 492 my non rep grinding toon is at 490. it is by no way forced and can be achieved without the dailies just as easy and in about the same amount of time involved. you are not forced at all to go the route you are, you didnt try both ways so have no clue as to how easy it is to avoid the grind.

I had a very close experience. My first 90 did reps, my second one did only heroics/lfr/crafted gear. My second 90 has surpassed the one that does daily/lfr.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 01:13 AM ----------

No, it's just proof that Ghostcrawler is an idiot. He took something that didn't need to be changed and made the whole system worse for the sake of changing it. He has done this EVERY expansion and they end up losing subs as a result. Remember "dungeons should be hard"? Well, I log in to enjoy the game, not to work in game chores.

So you just want easy loot instead of working as a team in a multiplayer game to over come challenges?

[Hastings]

Big minus hate being forced to do dailies, and reps, rather do them for cosmetic things such as mounts and titles (Which feel more optional), loved End of Cata model where I could actually play all of my characters

(Had 10 85s, all above 480 ilvl, because of the gearing system, could actually have fun and enjoy the game since I could just do whatever on them.

Have since quit the game though, just don't like the current model.


End of wrath model was another favorite time of mine.

<Coming from a vanilla player.

[Lemonpartyfan]

The gear for Rep concept is as old as Vanilla WoW. I don't know what people were playing all those years.
Suddenly everyone acts as if it's the new discovery of the games mechanics. The only thing that actually changed was to get a step back to TBC times, where plenty of stuff was gated behind multiple factions reputations. And once it was reached with a main, there wasn't the least incentive to get it any easier with an alt. Today, when people have alts it's kind of a "so what" 8 alts, big deal... Back then it was even an accomplishment to have alts at max level and decently geared, since the efforts from toon 1 to toon X have always been the same to be put in.
As for myself, I enjoyed that concept a lot more than the hand-out mentality of today.

If comparing it to Vanilla, reputatikon gains are way way way way quicker. Even compared to any other expansion, MoP is just way quicker.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 01:15 AM ----------

Big minus, loved End Game - Cata model where I could actually play all of my characters

(Had 10 85s, all above 480 ilvl, because of the gearing system, could actually have fun and enjoy the game since I could just do whatever on them.

You can still easily play all your characters.

[Hastings]

If comparing it to Vanilla, reputatikon gains are way way way way quicker. Even compared to any other expansion, MoP is just way quicker.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 01:15 AM ----------



You can still easily play all your characters.

Not how I, want too though.

Logging in on any one of them and being able to run a dungeon whenever I wanted was fun.

[seta-san]

it's annoying. I wish that when you got to honored or revered that the tabards would start giving you rep in heroics.

[Lemonpartyfan]

Not how I, want too though.

Logging in on any one of them and being able to run a dungeon whenever I wanted was fun.

You can still do that.

[Leonard McCoy]

You can still do that.

Just as you could conceivable do dailies WITHOUT GEAR for YEARS in this game. Why the change? The answer is so bloody obvious and when you get to it you'll realize why the gear is there and why it's a huge compulsion. This game is a massive fucking skinner box and the gear was put behind the dailies ON PURPOSE to get you to do them because NOBODY WOULD TOUCH THEM OTHERWISE. So of course people feel compelled to do it, THAT'S THE FUCKING DESIGN.

Why were dailies never content before? You had a wealth of dailies to occupy your time in cataclysm. A WEALTH. The list of dailies is long as my arm. Are you exalted with every daily faction in the game? Of course not because NONE OF YOU DID IT WITHOUT THE FUCKING GEAR. So now the gear has to be put in place SO THAT YOU FEEL COMPELLED TO DO IT. If you did the dailies without the gear all those years you'd never need the compulsion now.

[Wildtree]

If comparing it to Vanilla, reputatikon gains are way way way way quicker. Even compared to any other expansion, MoP is just way quicker.

Absolutely correct......
Thorium Brotherhood,
Brood of Nozdormu,
Timbermaw Hold
Cenarion Circle
Zandalar Tribe
Argent Dawn

All of them had gear or crafting items gated, and to get the rep was endless work.
Maybe THAT'S where Blizzard made the mistake. By letting people today get those reps in so fast and easy that they basically have no clue (anymore) what rep grind actually really is/was. The MoP rep is gained so ridiculously fast, it's amazing how one can even bitch about it at all. Never in WoW's entire time was it any faster than this time. Plus, one doesn't even need to get to exalted for the "good stuff" Revered unlocks all the valor gear. Honored already parts of it.
TBC had 17 factions to raise, of which every single one had rewards that helped a toon one way or another. There were no tabards to sport for reputation gains in Vanilla and TBC. On top of it, one needed reputation with several factions to be able to buy the keys for the heroic modes of 5 man dungeons...
And yet, the subs climbed and climbed....
Everything changed with WotLK.. When things became much easier, and over the course of the Expansion even more easier.. Suddenly the subs dropped too..
Now it's not clear whether it's a factor, but it certainly looks as if the game was more popular when outside of instances content was actually more time consuming, and rewarding. Plus, I am sure that many players who've spent a lot of time to get to where they were mid WotLK realized how Blizzard went ahead and started to render all the efforts meaningless by handing everything out now for little to no effort at all anymore, including the older content grind.
The return to the more effort needed for reward is a welcomed change to the better.
I can see how the double gating of GL rep unlocking the others can be some kind of a hurdle.. Yet, on the other hand, most factions give some rep already from questing regularly in the leveling zones.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 12:43 AM ----------

Just as you could conceivable do dailies WITHOUT GEAR for YEARS in this game. Why the change? The answer is so bloody obvious and when you get to it you'll realize why the gear is there and why it's a huge compulsion. This game is a massive fucking skinner box and the gear was put behind the dailies ON PURPOSE to get you to do them because NOBODY WOULD TOUCH THEM OTHERWISE. So of course people feel compelled to do it, THAT'S THE FUCKING DESIGN.

What dailies aside from Cooking and Fishing did NOT give gear? There are none... All of them do, and always did.
Well... Netherwing gave a mount. But even skyguards already have gear items too....
So, nope... Gear was almost always an incentive for Reputation through Dailies. This is not new introduced with MoP.

[Leonard McCoy]

Absolutely correct......
Thorium Brotherhood,
Brood of Nozdormu,
Timbermaw Hold
Cenarion Circle
Zandalar Tribe
Argent Dawn

All of them had gear or crafting items gated, and to get the rep was endless work.
Maybe THAT'S where Blizzard made the mistake. By letting people today get those reps in so fast and easy that they basically have no clue (anymore) what rep grind actually really is/was. The MoP rep is gained so ridiculously fast, it's amazing how one can even bitch about it at all. Never in WoW's entire time was it any faster than this time. Plus, one doesn't even need to get to exalted for the "good stuff" Revered unlocks all the valor gear. Honored already parts of it.
TBC had 17 factions to raise, of which every single one had rewards that helped a toon one way or another. There were no tabards to sport for reputation gains in Vanilla and TBC. On top of it, one needed reputation with several factions to be able to buy the keys for the heroic modes of 5 man dungeons...
And yet, the subs climbed and climbed....
Everything changed with WotLK.. When things became much easier, and over the course of the Expansion even more easier.. Suddenly the subs dropped too..
Now it's not clear whether it's a factor, but it certainly looks as if the game was more popular when outside of instances content was actually more time consuming, and rewarding. Plus, I am sure that many players who've spent a lot of time to get to where they were mid WotLK realized how Blizzard went ahead and started to render all the efforts meaningless by handing everything out now for little to no effort at all anymore, including the older content grind.
The return to the more effort needed for reward is a welcomed change to the better.
I can see how the double gating of GL rep unlocking the others can be some kind of a hurdle.. Yet, on the other hand, most factions give some rep already from questing regularly in the leveling zones.

What's ironic is that most of the reps you listed ALSO WERE OBTAINABLE IN DUNGEONS and didn't require me to do a single fucking daily quest. In fact daily quests didn't even exist at that point. Why do people keep glossing over the fact that DOUBLE DIPPING EXISTED EVEN IN FUCKING VANILLA. I would run dungeons for gear and get turn ins at the same time..


This isn't 2006 anymore and if you think the grind model will somehow cure what ails wow then your ignorant. I mean at one point the model for wow may have been fresh but adding more grind isn't what the game needs, in fact it's more likely to turn people off I feel. They need something fresh, they don't need to listen to forum clowns tell them about how good it was back in they day and how Blizzard should make every regressive fucking decision they possible can in order to return the game to some archaic notion of the past that is only really half remembered. Christ even TBC was less of a grind then this. They nerfed keys to honored and I was doing the dungeons anyway for gear. Hell the dungeons GUARANTEED A PIECE OF GEAR AT THE BLOODY END OF THE FUCKING DUNGEON. MoP dungeons offer less. Until 5.2 now that the developers got their heads out of their asses and ignored clowns on forums who supported. I guess you can't hide behind forum defenders for so long.

[mmines]

I couldn't care less for reputation, but coins only being available in dailies pisses me off. Give me 10-15 coins to complete a daily heroic.

This, the rep isn't really required at all considering how long it takes to get there unless you're in a competitive raiding guild looking for server firsts and what not but the coins is what is really needed. That really needs to have other avenues of collection.

[draykorinee]

As much as I think MoP is one of the better expansions, if you take dailies out its the best. The forced boring chug through hideously bloated and uninspiring dailies has made this game the biggest chore. I really despise this aspect of MoP and whoever thought it up is a total idiot. Although I would say the coins are more important than the. reputation

[Lemonpartyfan]

Just as you could conceivable do dailies WITHOUT GEAR for YEARS in this game. Why the change? The answer is so bloody obvious and when you get to it you'll realize why the gear is there and why it's a huge compulsion. This game is a massive fucking skinner box and the gear was put behind the dailies ON PURPOSE to get you to do them because NOBODY WOULD TOUCH THEM OTHERWISE. So of course people feel compelled to do it, THAT'S THE FUCKING DESIGN.

Why were dailies never content before? You had a wealth of dailies to occupy your time in cataclysm. A WEALTH. The list of dailies is long as my arm. Are you exalted with every daily faction in the game? Of course not because NONE OF YOU DID IT WITHOUT THE FUCKING GEAR. So now the gear has to be put in place SO THAT YOU FEEL COMPELLED TO DO IT. If you did the dailies without the gear all those years you'd never need the compulsion now.

False. If you can't control your own emotions, whose fault is that? Your own. If you go through life being the mouse in a maze looking for cheese, mayeb you should quit video games for awhile and meditate. You aren't forced, unless your only goal in life is to make sure all your reps are up in World of Warcraft, which would be pathetic.

If you are just an LFR raider like I am these days, you can easily, as a matter of fact, get through all the current tiers of LFR without doing a daily.

Also, reputations have always been very important in this game. Dailies/repeatable quests have been important since vanilla as well. if you weren't around back then, I will excuse your ignorance.