Forced rep grinding? A plus or minus in MoP

[Mordredofmia]

The absolute biggest minus in MOP and such a big minus I'd have to say the opening patches in mop are worse then early cata. Way way worse. When valor rewards are better then LFR gear and locked behind dailies you are forced. Every other xpac had valor rewards not locked behind these time eating and boring as hell daily snoozefests. So glad 5.2 valor rewards are earned from raiding not handing in 45 boat ballsacks a day for weeks.

Terrible design. Just terrible

[Azrile]

At this point, aside from MAYBE the 5.1 faction, you sure as hell do not. You'd be getting equal gear if you raid normals, from normals. If it is due to "BiS min/max optimization" - You pay the price for wanting to play that way. That is always the way it is (If you raid heroics, VP gear is moot frankly, cause it's lower than the Heroic stuff period).

Wanna know how I got my freshly 90 Warlock into LFR? Crafting and a couple reputation QUEST REWARDS. No actual VP was spent for anything. 460 was done. Got 470 in 3 weeks of LFR MSV (and this is before the 5.2 boost to drop rates and such). Your mileage will vary, but you do not NEED to run even a Heroic to get into a form of raiding. Yes, no heroics, no scenarios, and BAM, I was 460.

Same with me, I dinged my Priest alt to 90. Killed Sha of Anger, got freebie epic boots, bought a few items on the AH, got the BOA inscription staff. Was able to run LFR about 3 hours after dinging 90. Ran LFR the next day after the reset. One week later, Ran LFR again for the 3rd time and had an ilvl high enough to run the rest of it and kill Sha. 8 days after dinging 90, I was able to complete LFR without doing any dailies.

[Cernunnos]

What happened to the days where you got 250 rep per daily?

Klaxxi is what 137 rep after bonuses (non human)? At least you get to Honored with the from questing (revered if you have the commendation)
Golden Lotus is what 110 rep after bonuses (non Human)?

Shado Pan and August Celestials are 250 rep give or take, so not so bad, well apart from having to grind out Golden Lotus to revered at 110 rep a quest first.

[Canderous1]

i like the way reps are, i consider it a plus.

however, reps are not forced.

[Neotokyo]

Hate the grind this expac.. it seems like they have gone all out for that true asian feel...

[Azrile]

And carching up, i am sometimes tempted to try wow again, but i just cant face the catchup anymore, sequential gearing and forced rep grinds seams so outdated in modern mmos, it just does not seam worth the tume and effort.

It is a good thing you don´t have to do it. It is an option available, expecially for those that don´t have a guild.. but there are other ways.

If you are in a guild that is raiding now, you can be caught up in a few hours after dinging 90 to not be too much of a burden on them. Ding 90, kill SoA and get your epic boots, grind some heroics for a few hours, maybe buy a cheap epic on the AH.. and you probably will end up with a higher ilvl than the people did the first week they were raiding. Yes, you will probably be last on the DPS chart.. but you will also probably be doing DPS higher than those players were their first week in there.

If you are not in a guild, then you are going to be doing LFR, which you can qualify for within a few days of dinging 90 without doing dailies. Kill SoA, get boots, do heroics, keep an eye on the AH for cheap epics.

The problem is there are very stupid people in this thread that make it sound like you MUST grind all these dailies, when in fact, all of them are completely optional in either case above.

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 05:43 PM ----------

what enchants are optional?

gotta write that 1 down

the enchants are locked behind AC and SP revered those factions are locked behind GL revered

so in order to get the enchants you need to farm golden lotus revered, then you had to get shado pan and argus revered be4 these were buy able

---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 05:14 PM ----------



try 3 hours most times just to set up a pug depending on server and time and then after that you can talk about downing bosses

was in a msv pug yesterday on my ret paladin we waited 2 hours for him to complete the pug and he made a complete mess of it we ended up with 1 tank 2 healers rest dps then the rl was in some tank gear some dps gear and some pvp gear...


typically the rl was a dk

from my experience with most players of that class they are clueless

Big surprise, those enchants are also available on the AH... and bigger surprise.. they often sell for less than the price of the mats needed to make them. I had all the enchants very quickly and NEVER made a profit selling them over what I would have made just selling the mats.

[Leih]

what enchants are optional?

gotta write that 1 down

the enchants are locked behind AC and SP revered those factions are locked behind GL revered

Nobody says you have to have all the enchants yourself. If you want them, you have to do some work for them. If you don't want to put in a little bit of work to further your professions... then just buy the enchants from someone else? Or ask a friend for a freebie? You can even just AH them nowadays, if actually speaking to someone else is a scary thought. I mean... I don't even understand this complaint. If you aren't willing to do quests to get something, you can just trade with other people. No one is forcing you to learn them.

[SherbertLand]

What forced rep grinding? If you do normal raids, the gear isn't even good.

[Tearyn]

Reputation dailies are not forced on individuals, they are forced on raid-teams. They aren't forced on all raid teams, but they are forced on some.

More to the point, there isn't a good reason why raid-level gear, and reputations, should be tied together. There just isn't.



Asking whether the content is forced on us or not is fine i suppose, maybe it's a perception thing, but a better question would be why is designed this way to begin with. If you could unlink reputation from raid-level gear, and in the place of that gear put things like Mounts, tabards, pets and transmog gear, you would keep the content there, and relevant, without even the slightest risk of making it feel mandatory to raiders. How could that possibly be a bad thing?

[Count Zero]

People don't seem to realize that raid-gear and rep-gear are supposed to be alternate paths to power upgrades. No one is forcing you to gear up your character, but if you make that choice, you can either do raids or get rep gear. People may have felt compelled to get the rep gear, but you were not forced. I made this choice myself, but it was not mandatory. Many of the raiders in my guild felt compelled to get rep gear, but not all of them did, and now that we've been doing normal-mode raids long enough, many of us who did and who did not are on the same playing field now, and the ultimate arc of our progression would not be significantly different. Maybe not exactly the same, but not significantly different.

Saying you're forced to do dailies for gear is like saying you're forced to raid for gear. Or forced to pvp for pvp gear. Everything is optional. A choice. I know plenty of folks who got LFR ready without doing a single daily, and if you have the ilvl to queue for LFR then you are ready to begin dipping into normal modes, which means you do not need to get rep gear unless you make the choice to hasten your path to victory. The choice.

[slime]

I'm getting a little tired of the whole "it's not forced on you" arguement - because by that faulty logic - nothing is forced on you. You can pay Blizz and never log into wow at all - logging in isn't forced on you. If you paid that's all they care about.

but if you want to advance in the game (and im sorry I have never experienced a game that is not about advancement or gaining experience/skill) these are absolutely forced on you, for the sake of advancement.

From here on in when any mongoloid moron on this site tells you "it's not forced on you. You don't have to do dailies." What they are really saying is... You don't have to log in - no one forces you to play what you paid for.

Thanks for letting me know that, I wasn't sure if I was allowed to NOT play wow.

[Azrile]

Reputation dailies are not forced on individuals, they are forced on raid-teams. They aren't forced on all raid teams, but they are forced on some.

More to the point, there isn't a good reason why raid-level gear, and reputations, should be tied together. There just isn't.



Asking whether the content is forced on us or not is fine i suppose, maybe it's a perception thing, but a better question would be why is designed this way to begin with. If you could unlink reputation from raid-level gear, and in the place of that gear put things like Mounts, tabards, pets and transmog gear, you would keep the content there, and relevant, without even the slightest risk of making it feel mandatory to raiders. How could that possibly be a bad thing?

a lot of players can´t, or don´t want to raid. Those players STILL need gear progression..and that is what the reps are for. that was the biggest problem with original WOW. A lot of players got to 60, then had no options for increasing their character. I think that is the real disconnect here, people keep linking raiding to rep gear... they are not linked, they are different alternatives. If you don´t raid, then you increase your power by doing LFR, heroics and reputations. If you do raid, then yes there is a short period after a new raid is introduced where LFR and reps can help you, but for the most part that closes within a few weeks when you start getting gear AND it is completely optional to begin with. A lot of guilds fully cleared MSV-normal after only a few weeks, and before they even had the VP necessary to buy rep gear.

people don´t talk enough about the 1k valor cap in these discussions.. that one factor alone makes ALL this talk about forced dailies moot. You can only earn enough VP to buy 1 pieces of gear every 2 weeks. The amount of dailies you need to do to spend that VP is minimal. You ding 90, you should already have Klaxxi to honored, that meansyou have 2 weeks to get GL to honored ( which takes about 3 days of quests).. so in 2 weeks, you have to do 3 days of dailies... after that, you have 2 weeks to either get GL or Klax to revered..

There simply was never any reason to do crazy amounts of dailies every week because you NEVER can earn more than 1000 VP anyway.

[Scot]

The idea that you need rep AND VP to purchase gear is ridiculous enough, but they decided to take it a step further and make the rep daily only to artificially draw out the content! But wait! There's more! Not only are dailies virtually the only path to rep, you need to spend weeks on golden lotus dailies before you can even start august celestials and shado pan rep dailies! Doesn't that sound like fun? No more of that tedious rep grinding at your own pace, now you get to do it the way Blizzard wants you to - every day! But you know what? That just doesn't quite draw out the process of getting valor gear enough. So they made it so that there is a 1000 VP cap per week! Now I know what you're thinking: That isn't even enough to purchase the cheapest valor item every week. And yes, that is correct, but Blizzard did it to help you! You see, if you played the game at your own pace, you'd quickly get geared and then complain that there's nothing to do. So they decided they'd throw you a bone by making it so that there is very little to do but you have to do it every day in order to accomplish something! Wasn't that nice of them?

[Leih]

I'm getting a little tired of the whole "it's not forced on you" arguement - because by that faulty logic - nothing is forced on you. You can pay Blizz and never log into wow at all - logging in isn't forced on you. If you paid that's all they care about.

but if you want to advance in the game (and im sorry I have never experienced a game that is not about advancement or gaining experience/skill) these are absolutely forced on you, for the sake of advancement.

From here on in when any mongoloid moron on this site tells you "it's not forced on you. You don't have to do dailies." What they are really saying is... You don't have to log in - no one forces you to play what you paid for.

Thanks for letting me know that, I wasn't sure if I was allowed to NOT play wow.

To be fair though, the game - and RPGs and other MMORPGs before and after it - has always had a large part of its focus in questing. I just don't understand the argument of "I don't want to be forced to do quests" because really that is part of logging in. It's one of the primary mechanics of the game and I dunno, all these people coming saying they don't like doing quests at all, well maybe they shouldn't be logging in? Cause it does sound like they are playing the wrong game.

But maybe they do like quests just not in large doses. Well you can argue there is too many dailies at once, but I think a lot of people made the mistake of trying to clear every faction every day at the same time. It's actually not even vaguely stressful to do one faction at a time, it's barely 10 minutes of time.

[Granyala]

Rep aint the roadblock for gearing non raiding alts. Stupid VP-System is.

Looking forward to 5.2 and half the prices.

[thunderdragon2]

what enchants are optional?

gotta write that 1 down

the enchants are locked behind AC and SP revered those factions are locked behind GL revered

so in order to get the enchants you need to farm golden lotus revered, then you had to get shado pan and argus revered be4 these were buy able[COLOR="red"]

for those that didn't notice i was being sarcastic in this post

[rejer13]

its the reason i quit. (some time ago)

[Tearyn]

a lot of players can´t, or don´t want to raid. Those players STILL need gear progression..and that is what the reps are for. that was the biggest problem with original WOW. A lot of players got to 60, then had no options for increasing their character. I think that is the real disconnect here, people keep linking raiding to rep gear... they are not linked, they are different alternatives. If you don´t raid, then you increase your power by doing LFR, heroics and reputations. If you do raid, then yes there is a short period after a new raid is introduced where LFR and reps can help you, but for the most part that closes within a few weeks when you start getting gear AND it is completely optional to begin with. A lot of guilds fully cleared MSV-normal after only a few weeks, and before they even had the VP necessary to buy rep gear.

That's what the LFR was implemented for, so that they could stop having to design everything for 2 very different groups of people, because when they did the raiders inevitable lost out as the clear minority.

Once i started raiding at a sufficiently high level, an "option" to gear up stopped being optional, because anything that can make me a more effective part of a raid team i feel like i need to do. If i don't, i'll feel like im letting down the other 24 people in my raid team.

I'm not in a world-first guild, and i won't claim to be among the most hardcore of raiders, but i can't imagine im the only one in this situation.

You can claim that its a choice i make, choosing to go through content i don't enjoy rather than let 24 of my friends down, but to me it isn't. And i still can't see a reason why this gear-rep link is there.

To players who aren't raiding, character progression could just as easily be the number of achievement points they have, mount collections, transmog gear, titles, challenge mode times, etc. But to raiders in my position, if there's gear upgrades, it's not optional.

[thunderdragon2]

Big surprise, those enchants are also available on the AH... and bigger surprise.. they often sell for less than the price of the mats needed to make them. I had all the enchants very quickly and NEVER made a profit selling them over what I would have made just selling the mats.

some1 still has to aquire the enchants for this to work for the mop ones anyway

[skitzy129]

some1 still has to aquire the enchants for this to work for the mop ones anyway

The people willing to work for them. Clearly this thread is about wanting them for nothing.