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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Shampro View Post
    Its a compulsive thing the community has lately, they think they deserve everything without putting any kind of effort.
    Actually, I think of WoW as more of a game, and that it's Blizzard's job to avoid making the game something I dislike intensely. Like Golden Lotus dailies.

    You've confused a game, that you pay to enjoy, with real life, where you work for money.

  2. #182
    Doing dailies bothered me at first, but now i'm used to them. I don't like them either and probably never will but I do them.

  3. #183
    Brewmaster Jawless Jones's Avatar
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    dailies suck ass and have always sucked ass

    dont know why blizztard thought to make a whole god damn expac about crappy, boring, repetitive dailies, the tabard system worked fine in wrath and cata (and i didnt feel 'forced to do dungeons', like blizzard says)
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    I'm still waiting on someone to tell me where all these people that suddenly care about Warrior balance were during Cataclysm when they were blow up dolls with plate armor on.
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    Stop complaining to solve your lack of ability, and start reading and practicing to gain ability. Stop trying to bring people down to your level instead of striving to raise yours.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    Actually, I think of WoW as more of a game, and that it's Blizzard's job to avoid making the game something I dislike intensely. Like Golden Lotus dailies.

    You've confused a game, that you pay to enjoy, with real life, where you work for money.
    You confused something you have to do (well you don't have to work for money, but the alternatives aren't really that shiny) with something you can very well not do if it isn't fun. (Like dailies, or playing the game at all)

    And Blizzard did the job and avoided making something you dislike (Because you know, they made it for people that like it, or do you suddenly represent all the players? You don't have to answer that, as you either say no or I know you are lying). Or should they make a loading screen text "You don't have to get reputation with Golden Lotus to play this game" ?
    Last edited by DieFichte; 2013-01-30 at 07:13 AM.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by DieFichte View Post
    You confused something you have to do (well you don't have to work for money, but the alternatives aren't really that shiny) with something you can very well not do if it isn't fun. (Like dailies, or playing the game at all)

    And Blizzard did the job and avoided making something you dislike (Because you know, they made it for people that like it, or do you suddenly represent all the players? You don't have to answer that, as you either say no or I know you are lying). Or should they make a loading screen text "You don't have to get reputation with Golden Lotus to play this game" ?
    Well you dont have to do dailies but the alternatives are really shitty. I mean I don't have to play wow at all, and I'm guessing that people realized this when Blizzard put all that reward behind daily quests. Hence DAILY QUESTS in 5.2 DON'T HAVE VALOR GEAR BEHIND THEM. I see this argument around alot and I have to ask do you really think the developer want's to encourage people not to play their game? or not to make use of their choices? I expect them to create systems that I will enjoy doing, not systems I can avoid doing.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by DieFichte View Post
    You confused something you have to do (well you don't have to work for money, but the alternatives aren't really that shiny) with something you can very well not do if it isn't fun. (Like dailies, or playing the game at all)

    And Blizzard did the job and avoided making something you dislike (Because you know, they made it for people that like it, or do you suddenly represent all the players? You don't have to answer that, as you either say no or I know you are lying). Or should they make a loading screen text "You don't have to get reputation with Golden Lotus to play this game" ?
    I'd sort of like to reply to you, but I can't understand what you said, because when I diagrammed your sentences, they looked like Razorfen Kraul.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 10:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Well you dont have to do dailies but the alternatives are really shitty. I mean I don't have to play wow at all, and I'm guessing that people realized this when Blizzard put all that reward behind daily quests.
    I think that Blizzard felt "more dailies" would be "more fun stuff to do." But that would only be the case if the dailies were fun. In the case of GL dailies they are entirely the opposite of fun.

    The fact that you have to do GL dailies just to unlock factions that you have to grind to get patterns is the thing that puts it over the top for me. I don't give a shit about valor gear. But grinding at 110 rep per quest just to unlock another faction I have to grind (if I want XYZ pattern, which I do), that sucks ass.

    By "sucks ass" I mean "is not fun."

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoder View Post
    I'd sort of like to reply to you, but I can't understand what you said, because when I diagrammed your sentences, they looked like Razorfen Kraul.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-29 at 10:22 PM ----------


    I think that Blizzard felt "more dailies" would be "more fun stuff to do." But that would only be the case if the dailies were fun. In the case of GL dailies they are entirely the opposite of fun.

    The fact that you have to do GL dailies just to unlock factions that you have to grind to get patterns is the thing that puts it over the top for me. I don't give a shit about valor gear. But grinding at 110 rep per quest just to unlock another faction I have to grind (if I want XYZ pattern, which I do), that sucks ass.

    By "sucks ass" I mean "is not fun."
    To be honest Shado Pan wasn't really fun either. The island with the mobs was a pain in the ass. I've never had fun with daillies, had far more fun in dungeons but I could stomach something like Cloud Serpents. Cloud serpents was really well done. Really rewarding.

  8. #188
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    Yet you aren't forced, Just cause they have purple rewards at the end doesn't mean your forced to do them. You can progress very easy without them, those rewards from dailies are rewards for people who want to complete them or lore nuts like myself. If there was nothing they would be pointless.

    Dailies have been in the game since TBC & have always had been like this, I continue to say this and will continue to think people only complain about dailies this time around for the sake of complaining and not being able to have the best gear or 489 gear at there disposal without putting some effort in. The things that I hated about Wrath & Cata the most was how easy it was to gear up a character with minimal to no effort at all.
    I don't always hunt things, But when I do, It's because they're things & I'm a Bear.


  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    Yet you aren't forced, Just cause they have purple rewards at the end doesn't mean your forced to do them. You can progress very easy without them, those rewards from dailies are rewards for people who want to complete them or lore nuts like myself. If there was nothing they would be pointless.

    Dailies have been in the game since TBC & have always had been like this, I continue to say this and will continue to think people only complain about dailies this time around for the sake of complaining and not being able to have the best gear or 489 gear at there disposal without putting some effort in. The things that I hated about Wrath & Cata the most was how easy it was to gear up a character with minimal to no effort at all.
    Dailies have been in the game BUT HAVE NEVER HAD SUCH OVERWHELMING REWARD TIED TO THEM. It's always been dungeons. That's the key. Luckily regardless of your ignorance and the general ignorance of the forum population, BLIZZARD HAS REMOVED GEAR FROM DAILIES. To fucking bad for you.

    Saying you aren't forced is a horrible argument, and I'm guessing the developers have realized this as well. Eventually it leads to the realization that you aren't forced to play wow and thus people leave. Content that isn't paced properly or isn't rewarding enough is equally as boring as having exhausted all relevant and rewarding content. Ergo people get bored and leave the game because IT FEELS LIKE A FUCKING CHORE and when you tell them they don't have to do the chore the rest of their progress is so stymied and slow because well they have no where to spend their valor and are left to be subject to RNG. In other words gearing without valor gear is slow but telling people not to do it is even slower so people feel compelled. Nobody wants to drive 20 in a 60 zone.

    In the end the developers have gladly realized that DE LINKING rep from activities people liked doing (dungeons and raiding) just made rep grindy and a pain in the ass and a fucking chore, regardless of wether or not it's "optional". Saying it's optional is not an excuse for POOR FUCKING DESIGN. Just because you can argue that on some technicality users don't have to participate in said content, doesn't make said content good. Christ RAIDS are optional.. does that mean raids should be tuned to be as hard and slow and grindy as shit? Like you can make that case about everything in the game. The developers are not in the business of making content for people to ignore.
    Last edited by Leonard McCoy; 2013-01-30 at 05:53 PM.

  10. #190
    In Wrath, factions were a parallel form of gearing up. Exalted gave you epic item level 200 gear, comparable to the gear you'd get in heroic dungeons. You could grind out the 4 or 5 dailies offered by a faction, or buy a tabard to wear into dungeons to slowly get rep from killing enemies and bosses. I usually did both, and I liked that I wasn't dependent on one or the other to do so. In the end, getting reputation and buying gear was to fill in holes for slots I didn't get heroic gear in. You could also save up the Justice points to go to Dalaran or the Argent Tournament and buy tier gear when that was made available.

    In Pandaria, I was fortunate enough to have been able to mostly gear my character in item level 463 heroic gear from just running heroics. I actually didn't have to run any more than twice, though having no one to roll against for DPS caster cloth gear helped too. But now I'm sitting on a ton of valor points, with no way to spend them. I bought the 489 amulet from the Klaxxi, but that's only because I just happened to be Honored from doing the quests in Dread Wastes. Most other gear is locked behind Revered status for the other factions.

    This is problematic, because the gear sold by the rep vendors is almost 2 steps above what I can get by simply dungeon delving. If I want to buy that gear, my only option is to do the dailies. Not only that, but Blizzard has also been locking storyline quests (Patch 5.1) or faction development story behind your rep level. Do I really have to collect 10 waxy Alliance ears, kill 30 peasants, etc. every day for 3 weeks straight just so I can be eligible for another scrap of story? I'd rather not.

    I ran the two LFR Mogu'shan Vault raids last week, since I just barely passed the item level 460 requirement. Super easy, I even got a new weapon out of it, even though I spent all 3 charms in there. Ironically, the charms didn't give me anything but money. And I find it a bit fitting that the UI for spending a charm is a figurative "slot machine". So now the next step is Heart of Fear or the Terrace of Endless Spring, right? Nope, gotta make it to 470 for that. After all the upgrading I did, I think I'm sitting at 465, but that's only because of the epic PVP trinket that dropped from the Alliance 5.1 daily place. It would sure be nice if I could spend these valor points on something...

    I despise dailies. I've done all the ones available to me at least once, just to see what they were like. I did repeat some of the trivial ones, like farming or fishing, but have stopped doing those as well. I would like to at least try the Shado-Panda or August Celestials ones at least once as well, but unfortunately they are locked until you get Revered with Golden Lotus. And seeing how I'm only 475/6000 Friendly with them, with 5 days left on my sub, there's no way to make it. Despite how much time I could pour into the game right now.

    Dailies are a blatant time-sink to stretch out subscription time. To paraphrase someone else's comment on a WoW site, it's amazing the lengths people will go to defend Blizzard's actions on this. Even to the point of calling other players "lazy" or "entitled". I don't consider myself lazy in the context of the game. I have a lot of time to put into the game. 8 hour nights, 12 hours on weekends. If this were Wrath, I could be banging out heroics to slowly get my rep up, even though I don't even need anything in them now. At least heroics are more engaging than rescuing Lao from the Mogu yet again, and I could do them more than once a day. What I won't do is stretch my sub over 3 months while mindlessly doing dailies just because they don't want people to "finish content too quickly".

    I've seen the argument many times in many places that "You don't have to do dailies"; "No one's forcing you to do them." Well, my choices lie between: do the dailies for the next couple weeks/months to unlock the better gear; do LFR once a week for a 15% shot at the "slot machine" (extra tries come at the price of more dailies, heh heh); or just stop playing. I think this is a terrible situation. Dailies should be a supplement to reputation progression, not the sole means. I believe Blizzard might just be starting to wise up, what with the new reputation bonus button coming to LFD, but too bad it only seems to work once a day.

    Forced rep grinding? Definitely a big minus.

  11. #191
    I laugh at anyone who calls dailies a rep grind, I played FFXI for 7 years so I know what a real grind is. Asian MMO's focus on the grind and they actually make you work for hours on end for the benefits that they give you. Anyone kicking puppies over having to do *random* dailies for 5-15 minutes a day for 2-3 weeks really just looks infantile to me.

  12. #192
    How is this forced upon you? You don't need the rewards. You want them.

  13. #193
    I laugh at anyone who brags about mindless hours spent wasted in a completely unrelated game like it means anything except they are a total dumbass.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinjin View Post
    I laugh at anyone who brags about mindless hours spent wasted in a completely unrelated game like it means anything except they are a total dumbass.
    Comparing dailies from other MMO's makes you a dumbass?

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Comparing dailies from other MMO's makes you a dumbass?
    I think the grind he was referring to from Final Fantasy 11 was the experience one, since I don't believe it had reputations. My leveling experience was killing goblins and bugs outside the capital city for days on end, until my brother told me I was doing it wrong and I had to join a farm group in the first cave-like area. There were people there repeatedly starting a "Kill 30 things" quest from a book near the entrance, and about 20 guys just spamming attacks and farming skeletons all day and night. You do that until you hit 20 or 30 I think.

    That was pretty much the point that I gave up on the game. Grinding just to even get out of the gate is not something I want to invest myself in. Well, that and most abilities with cooldowns measured in minutes or hours.

  16. #196
    Legendary! MasterHamster's Avatar
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    Making factions nothing but a tabard was one of Blizzards major mistakes.
    Good thing they fixed it.

    If you want the reward, you do the chore.
    Welcome to MMOs.
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  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by puppypizza View Post
    I think the grind he was referring to from Final Fantasy 11 was the experience one, since I don't believe it had reputations. My leveling experience was killing goblins and bugs outside the capital city for days on end, until my brother told me I was doing it wrong and I had to join a farm group in the first cave-like area. There were people there repeatedly starting a "Kill 30 things" quest from a book near the entrance, and about 20 guys just spamming attacks and farming skeletons all day and night. You do that until you hit 20 or 30 I think.

    That was pretty much the point that I gave up on the game. Grinding just to even get out of the gate is not something I want to invest myself in. Well, that and most abilities with cooldowns measured in minutes or hours.
    Does comparing MMOs to other MMOs make you a dumbass though? That doesn't sound fun, but the WoW experience is nothing at all like that.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Does comparing MMOs to other MMOs make you a dumbass though? That doesn't sound fun, but the WoW experience is nothing at all like that.
    It was an irrelevant comparison. People are talking about the rep grind in here, and DeadmanWalking jumps in and laughs saying how we have it easy compared to the poor schleps in Final Fantasy 11 or other Asian MMOs. As if it were a badge of honor saying that you spent more hours grinding than anyone here will ever do, or that we're lightweights for even deigning to complain about it.

    And I'm sorry for him that he had to endure even worse grinds in other MMOs. But we aren't talking about Final Fantasy 11 in this thread. Or the fact that, yes, there are other games out there with some terrible grinds. Better to leave them where they are than to add them to WoW.

  19. #199
    OP nobody forced you to do anything. You don't have to have valor gear to play the game.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Making factions nothing but a tabard was one of Blizzards major mistakes.
    Good thing they fixed it.

    If you want the reward, you do the chore.
    Welcome to MMOs.
    Why does playing an MMO have to be a chore?

    For that matter, what's more of a chore: grinding out 100 dungeons in a week or logging in for 30 minutes a day for a month?

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