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  1. #201
    Deleted
    Minus. That is all.

  2. #202
    Legendary! MasterHamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puppypizza View Post
    Why does playing an MMO have to be a chore?

    For that matter, what's more of a chore: grinding out 100 dungeons in a week or logging in for 30 minutes a day for a month?
    Because an MMO without "chores" (i.e gating players) will die.

    And who's telling you to log in every day? I do dailies max twice a week and I have no issue whatsoever in spending Valor.
    Active WoW player Jan 2006 - Aug 2020
    Occasional WoW Classic Andy since.
    Nothing lasts forever, as they say.
    But at least I can casually play Classic and remember when MMORPGs were good.

  3. #203
    I personally despise questing in general, and dailies make it even more despicable. Questing for leveling was atrocious in the early expansions. If not for the current BoA dungeon grinding, i'd be stuck with one toon at max level. It's a barrier to fun for many I know, and even doing the few 5-10 levels of questing at the beginning of an expansion is too much. For a game that is almost exclusive to end game/max level, making the process in which you get there should be enjoyable. I've slowly done some reputation grinding, doing one grind at a time, but i despise it, and if i were not in a high end raiding guild, would not even bother. Unfortunately the greater charms are far too valuable to pass up on, especially trying to gear up after coming in to the expansion late. The rep tabards were a much better design, people who liked dailies could do them and the people who liked doing dungeons could do them. As a full time college student and part time employed, i don't have time to do boring dailies when-if there were tabards for rep-I could run a heroic for chances at gear AND get the rep/valor to purchase the pieces that did not drop.


    TL;DR. Bring back the tabards, the gearing process is being broken from one process in to two. The choice is being forced to do both rather than a choice between either or.
    Last edited by Suffocatingsight; 2013-01-30 at 08:38 PM.

  4. #204
    Mechagnome jd812's Avatar
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    there are a lot of other factions in wow that are a lot more grindy than any one that is in mop like o'grila ( Spelling maybe wrong), Netherwing, Ravenhodlt, Bloodsail to exalted, Hydraxian waterlords, getting steemwhedle cartel factions to exalted while keeping bloodsail exalted, and a few other vanilla and bc reps, even some from wrath like
    Kalu' ak, oracles, frenzyheart. And there is not one rep in wow to date that is forced by the way.

  5. #205
    Of course it's a minus. For players anyway. I think players saw the problem to quickly and blizzard is having to change things so thats good at least.
    But as long as you keep paying, they are not worried.

    However, as a business model it's great. Nothing better than to create some simple content and have your player base do it over and over again for months on end.
    Throw in some very cool goodies at the end just to hook players and the cash will roll in from monthly subs.

    What better way to string along players than to create content you have to do over and over again, with cool rewards players will want and put it all at the end of a multiple month grind. It's a very good business move for blizzard and clearly seems to be working so you can expect more of the same.

  6. #206
    Titan Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    negative - i would have done the rep dailies anyway even if they were not forced but i wouldn't appreciate it if i was forced to do them -.-

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by puppypizza View Post
    Why does playing an MMO have to be a chore?

    For that matter, what's more of a chore: grinding out 100 dungeons in a week or logging in for 30 minutes a day for a month?
    Its a chore if you make it a chore. When you have the attitude that only gear matters, that you need gear, that you only have fun when getting gear, you will of course not have fun when you aren't getting gear.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Because an MMO without "chores" (i.e gating players) will die.
    I still don't get why MMOs require chores. I know the answer is you can't compare the two, but I'm still not clear on why. Is it because the MMO space doesn't have that much replay value without chores ? You don't see people in CoD or Battlefield needing chores and they have no issue with playing 12 hours a days we many days\weeks straight. So why is it MMO's require other things ?

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Suffocatingsight View Post
    I personally despise questing in general, and dailies make it even more despicable. Questing for leveling was atrocious in the early expansions. If not for the current BoA dungeon grinding, i'd be stuck with one toon at max level. It's a barrier to fun for many I know, and even doing the few 5-10 levels of questing at the beginning of an expansion is too much. For a game that is almost exclusive to end game/max level, making the process in which you get there should be enjoyable. I've slowly done some reputation grinding, doing one grind at a time, but i despise it, and if i were not in a high end raiding guild, would not even bother. Unfortunately the greater charms are far too valuable to pass up on, especially trying to gear up after coming in to the expansion late. The rep tabards were a much better design, people who liked dailies could do them and the people who liked doing dungeons could do them. As a full time college student and part time employed, i don't have time to do boring dailies when-if there were tabards for rep-I could run a heroic for chances at gear AND get the rep/valor to purchase the pieces that did not drop.


    TL;DR. Bring back the tabards, the gearing process is being broken from one process in to two. The choice is being forced to do both rather than a choice between either or.
    well everything about this statement is false.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Because an MMO without "chores" (i.e gating players) will die.

    And who's telling you to log in every day? I do dailies max twice a week and I have no issue whatsoever in spending Valor.
    Interesting thesis. I'd like to provide one as well: an MMO with too many "chores" (i.e. stifling players) will die.

    And I would like to think that I could do something entertaining yet meaningful by logging in every day. That's what it's there for, right? I paid Blizzard for 31 days of game time; you bet your bottom that I'm gonna try to get as much fun out of it as possible. If my only reason to log in is to do dailies, then I'd rather not. I like running dungeons and raids. I do not like to kill 5 goats or collect 20 wings every day, and can't see how this is any more helpful to a faction than slaying their greatest nemesis on a regular basis. I was able to do this in Wrath and Cataclysm. I cannot do this in Pandaria, and quite frankly, this sucks.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    I still don't get why MMOs require chores. I know the answer is you can't compare the two, but I'm still not clear on why. Is it because the MMO space doesn't have that much replay value without chores ? You don't see people in CoD or Battlefield needing chores and they have no issue with playing 12 hours a days we many days\weeks straight. So why is it MMO's require other things ?
    Because, in this genre you don't "beat" the game. So you have certain gates or barriers. If you don't like the genre, I suggest playing games that aren't in the genre.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Its a chore if you make it a chore. When you have the attitude that only gear matters, that you need gear, that you only have fun when getting gear, you will of course not have fun when you aren't getting gear.
    I don't care about gear, that's the funniest thing. I was even giving away or passing on heroic stuff to poor people in LFD if I was winning too much stuff. All I want to do is enter the last two raids in LFR. But here's the catch: I can't queue for them unless I have an average item level of 470. I have 463/465 right now, so what do I need to get in?

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by puppypizza View Post
    Interesting thesis. I'd like to provide one as well: an MMO with too many "chores" (i.e. stifling players) will die.

    And I would like to think that I could do something entertaining yet meaningful by logging in every day. That's what it's there for, right? I paid Blizzard for 31 days of game time; you bet your bottom that I'm gonna try to get as much fun out of it as possible. If my only reason to log in is to do dailies, then I'd rather not. I like running dungeons and raids. I do not like to kill 5 goats or collect 20 wings every day, and can't see how this is any more helpful to a faction than slaying their greatest nemesis on a regular basis. I was able to do this in Wrath and Cataclysm. I cannot do this in Pandaria, and quite frankly, this sucks.
    You can do that in MoP, you choose to do dailies because you want those rewards.

  14. #214
    Reputation grinding always was required in WoW.

    People simply got spoiled by gear readily available in most of the past two expansions.

    Gearing up is no even as bad as it was in Classic, BC and in the begining of Cataclysm (before Firelands).

    And, you don't really need to grind reputation that much to enter a raid, and then you already have access to superior gear. From Heart of Fear and beyond, gear from valor is almost entirely obsolete.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by puppypizza View Post
    I don't care about gear, that's the funniest thing. I was even giving away or passing on heroic stuff to poor people in LFD if I was winning too much stuff. All I want to do is enter the last two raids in LFR. But here's the catch: I can't queue for them unless I have an average item level of 470. I have 463/465 right now, so what do I need to get in?
    You can craft/do more LFR's.

  16. #216
    For my personal play style that I have these days, I find it a big minus.
    Karma always has the last laugh.

  17. #217
    I don't see it as an issue for non raiders at all since they are asking you to do a minimal amount of grinding to get raid quality gear. I do not see it as an issue for raiders since they are getting drops from raids which tend to be better overall. If you need items fast then it is an issue. But then they system was put inplace to curb everyone on farm farming whole raiding sets overnight then bitch about having nothing to do across all their toons..

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 08:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    I couldn't care less for reputation, but coins only being available in dailies pisses me off. Give me 10-15 coins to complete a daily heroic.
    It's an optional bonus. It gets you out doing other things. If you do not like it then don't do them. I love how people complain about all this optional stuff.

  18. #218
    I'm one of those oft maligned "casual" gamers. I usually only get to play maybe two hours a day and sometimes go several days without playing at all. And while I understand peoples frustrations it really doesn't take long to get ONE character through all the MoP reps. I have reached exalted with all the MoP factions and even completed the Operation: Shieldwall a few weeks ago.

    If a player like me that is not very good and has limited play time can get through the rep grind, anyone can. Now granted when I was doing the rep grind on my main THAT was ALL that I was doing. Log in do dailies times up log out.

    Now, here is where I start to have problems with the rep grind, Alts. I have 10 alts and only six of them are at current level cap the other four are still at 85 and no desire to push them to 90. If I were to pursue the rep grind on all of my current level 90s it would require about six hours a day JUST doing dailies...and that is not so fun.

    Sure we have increased rep gains now but there is still only ONE way to get that rep and that is through dailies. So instead of 60 days of rep grinding I only have to do 40 (or whatever the math works out to be) which is nice but still very repetitive.

    As for the being "forced" to do the rep grind in order to progress...that is simply not true. One of my alts (holy pally) has not done any dailies and after just a week or so of reaching level 90 is already able to queue for MSV, HoF and ToeS. So it is possible to get into all all the LFRs without doing ANY dailies. Sure you probably are not going to ding 90 and insta-queue for LFR but I suppose it is possible given enough gold you could probably buy enough crafted and/or BoE gear to get into LFR within a couple of hours of dinging 90.


    I guess you could say that you are "forced" to do dailies if you want the other rewards (mounts, patterns, pets, etc) from a certain faction but those are only wants and the only reason I wanted to do the dailies on my main was for the mounts. But since it was something I wanted and doing dailies was/is the only available path to get what I wanted I didn't feel that I was forced to do them, rather I made choice to do them in order to get what I wanted. I won't do them again though unless its maybe for certain crafting patterns but again it would be something I want not something that is needed or required.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    You can do that in MoP, you choose to do dailies because you want those rewards.
    Do what, dungeons? I have every piece of heroic gear I can get. I suppose I could keep running them for those super-rare purple items, but with a 0.3% chance of dropping, I think we can agree that it'd be an exercise in futility. At least in previous expansions, my consolation prize was Justice points, which I could haul over to the quartermaster to cash in for gear. Now he's carding me to see if I'm exalted with the Flower Picker's Union, which shouldn't have anything to do with dungeons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    You can craft/do more LFR's.
    Crafted gear would get me about 2 more points, but not enough to meet the next requirement. LFR would be nice to do, but with the limit of one run a week, plus no charms unless you do dailies, my current gearing rate is about 1 out of 6. Judging from player commentary, that's actually pretty good for LFR so I must have been lucky.

    Instead of coming up with all these hoops to jump through just to get around Blizzard's new restrictions just so we can see the content, and pitting players against players with differing opinions, wouldn't it simpler to just replace the Valor quartermaster, and make charms purchasable through them? Then you would have a choice again: grind reps at your leisure for gear, or bang out hundreds of dungeons so you can qualify for raids. Everyone wins, everyone's happy.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Because, in this genre you don't "beat" the game. So you have certain gates or barriers. If you don't like the genre, I suggest playing games that aren't in the genre.

    You don't beat Call of Duty or Battlefield 3 at least not the part you play endlessly and that's the Multiplayer. You log in, you play with and against other people for endless hours. I understand that MMOs are a different beast, but I think it's not a very god arguement to always fall back on "It's a MMO, it's suppose to have chores" Games evolve, genres expand and become more than just X or Y, they become X,Y and Z. Blizzard has clearly shown they want to expand out Wow to appeal to everyone and not just the table top geeks

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