Forced rep grinding? A plus or minus in MoP

[puppypizza]

Comparing dailies from other MMO's makes you a dumbass?

I think the grind he was referring to from Final Fantasy 11 was the experience one, since I don't believe it had reputations. My leveling experience was killing goblins and bugs outside the capital city for days on end, until my brother told me I was doing it wrong and I had to join a farm group in the first cave-like area. There were people there repeatedly starting a "Kill 30 things" quest from a book near the entrance, and about 20 guys just spamming attacks and farming skeletons all day and night. You do that until you hit 20 or 30 I think.

That was pretty much the point that I gave up on the game. Grinding just to even get out of the gate is not something I want to invest myself in. Well, that and most abilities with cooldowns measured in minutes or hours.

[MasterHamster]

Making factions nothing but a tabard was one of Blizzards major mistakes.
Good thing they fixed it.

If you want the reward, you do the chore.
Welcome to MMOs.

[Lemonpartyfan]

I think the grind he was referring to from Final Fantasy 11 was the experience one, since I don't believe it had reputations. My leveling experience was killing goblins and bugs outside the capital city for days on end, until my brother told me I was doing it wrong and I had to join a farm group in the first cave-like area. There were people there repeatedly starting a "Kill 30 things" quest from a book near the entrance, and about 20 guys just spamming attacks and farming skeletons all day and night. You do that until you hit 20 or 30 I think.

That was pretty much the point that I gave up on the game. Grinding just to even get out of the gate is not something I want to invest myself in. Well, that and most abilities with cooldowns measured in minutes or hours.

Does comparing MMOs to other MMOs make you a dumbass though? That doesn't sound fun, but the WoW experience is nothing at all like that.

[puppypizza]

Does comparing MMOs to other MMOs make you a dumbass though? That doesn't sound fun, but the WoW experience is nothing at all like that.

It was an irrelevant comparison. People are talking about the rep grind in here, and DeadmanWalking jumps in and laughs saying how we have it easy compared to the poor schleps in Final Fantasy 11 or other Asian MMOs. As if it were a badge of honor saying that you spent more hours grinding than anyone here will ever do, or that we're lightweights for even deigning to complain about it.

And I'm sorry for him that he had to endure even worse grinds in other MMOs. But we aren't talking about Final Fantasy 11 in this thread. Or the fact that, yes, there are other games out there with some terrible grinds. Better to leave them where they are than to add them to WoW.

[Sarthan]

OP nobody forced you to do anything. You don't have to have valor gear to play the game.

[puppypizza]

Making factions nothing but a tabard was one of Blizzards major mistakes.
Good thing they fixed it.

If you want the reward, you do the chore.
Welcome to MMOs.

Why does playing an MMO have to be a chore?

For that matter, what's more of a chore: grinding out 100 dungeons in a week or logging in for 30 minutes a day for a month?

[Bananarepublic]

Minus. That is all.

[MasterHamster]

Why does playing an MMO have to be a chore?

For that matter, what's more of a chore: grinding out 100 dungeons in a week or logging in for 30 minutes a day for a month?

Because an MMO without "chores" (i.e gating players) will die.

And who's telling you to log in every day? I do dailies max twice a week and I have no issue whatsoever in spending Valor.

[Suffocatingsight]

I personally despise questing in general, and dailies make it even more despicable. Questing for leveling was atrocious in the early expansions. If not for the current BoA dungeon grinding, i'd be stuck with one toon at max level. It's a barrier to fun for many I know, and even doing the few 5-10 levels of questing at the beginning of an expansion is too much. For a game that is almost exclusive to end game/max level, making the process in which you get there should be enjoyable. I've slowly done some reputation grinding, doing one grind at a time, but i despise it, and if i were not in a high end raiding guild, would not even bother. Unfortunately the greater charms are far too valuable to pass up on, especially trying to gear up after coming in to the expansion late. The rep tabards were a much better design, people who liked dailies could do them and the people who liked doing dungeons could do them. As a full time college student and part time employed, i don't have time to do boring dailies when-if there were tabards for rep-I could run a heroic for chances at gear AND get the rep/valor to purchase the pieces that did not drop.


TL;DR. Bring back the tabards, the gearing process is being broken from one process in to two. The choice is being forced to do both rather than a choice between either or.

[jd812]

there are a lot of other factions in wow that are a lot more grindy than any one that is in mop like o'grila ( Spelling maybe wrong), Netherwing, Ravenhodlt, Bloodsail to exalted, Hydraxian waterlords, getting steemwhedle cartel factions to exalted while keeping bloodsail exalted, and a few other vanilla and bc reps, even some from wrath like
Kalu' ak, oracles, frenzyheart. And there is not one rep in wow to date that is forced by the way.

[quras]

Of course it's a minus. For players anyway. I think players saw the problem to quickly and blizzard is having to change things so thats good at least.
But as long as you keep paying, they are not worried.

However, as a business model it's great. Nothing better than to create some simple content and have your player base do it over and over again for months on end.
Throw in some very cool goodies at the end just to hook players and the cash will roll in from monthly subs.

What better way to string along players than to create content you have to do over and over again, with cool rewards players will want and put it all at the end of a multiple month grind. It's a very good business move for blizzard and clearly seems to be working so you can expect more of the same.

[Frozenbeef]

negative - i would have done the rep dailies anyway even if they were not forced but i wouldn't appreciate it if i was forced to do them -.-

[Lemonpartyfan]

Why does playing an MMO have to be a chore?

For that matter, what's more of a chore: grinding out 100 dungeons in a week or logging in for 30 minutes a day for a month?

Its a chore if you make it a chore. When you have the attitude that only gear matters, that you need gear, that you only have fun when getting gear, you will of course not have fun when you aren't getting gear.

[Mad_Murdock]

Because an MMO without "chores" (i.e gating players) will die.

I still don't get why MMOs require chores. I know the answer is you can't compare the two, but I'm still not clear on why. Is it because the MMO space doesn't have that much replay value without chores ? You don't see people in CoD or Battlefield needing chores and they have no issue with playing 12 hours a days we many days\weeks straight. So why is it MMO's require other things ?

[Lemonpartyfan]

I personally despise questing in general, and dailies make it even more despicable. Questing for leveling was atrocious in the early expansions. If not for the current BoA dungeon grinding, i'd be stuck with one toon at max level. It's a barrier to fun for many I know, and even doing the few 5-10 levels of questing at the beginning of an expansion is too much. For a game that is almost exclusive to end game/max level, making the process in which you get there should be enjoyable. I've slowly done some reputation grinding, doing one grind at a time, but i despise it, and if i were not in a high end raiding guild, would not even bother. Unfortunately the greater charms are far too valuable to pass up on, especially trying to gear up after coming in to the expansion late. The rep tabards were a much better design, people who liked dailies could do them and the people who liked doing dungeons could do them. As a full time college student and part time employed, i don't have time to do boring dailies when-if there were tabards for rep-I could run a heroic for chances at gear AND get the rep/valor to purchase the pieces that did not drop.


TL;DR. Bring back the tabards, the gearing process is being broken from one process in to two. The choice is being forced to do both rather than a choice between either or.

well everything about this statement is false.

[puppypizza]

Because an MMO without "chores" (i.e gating players) will die.

And who's telling you to log in every day? I do dailies max twice a week and I have no issue whatsoever in spending Valor.

Interesting thesis. I'd like to provide one as well: an MMO with too many "chores" (i.e. stifling players) will die.

And I would like to think that I could do something entertaining yet meaningful by logging in every day. That's what it's there for, right? I paid Blizzard for 31 days of game time; you bet your bottom that I'm gonna try to get as much fun out of it as possible. If my only reason to log in is to do dailies, then I'd rather not. I like running dungeons and raids. I do not like to kill 5 goats or collect 20 wings every day, and can't see how this is any more helpful to a faction than slaying their greatest nemesis on a regular basis. I was able to do this in Wrath and Cataclysm. I cannot do this in Pandaria, and quite frankly, this sucks.

[Lemonpartyfan]

I still don't get why MMOs require chores. I know the answer is you can't compare the two, but I'm still not clear on why. Is it because the MMO space doesn't have that much replay value without chores ? You don't see people in CoD or Battlefield needing chores and they have no issue with playing 12 hours a days we many days\weeks straight. So why is it MMO's require other things ?

Because, in this genre you don't "beat" the game. So you have certain gates or barriers. If you don't like the genre, I suggest playing games that aren't in the genre.

[puppypizza]

Its a chore if you make it a chore. When you have the attitude that only gear matters, that you need gear, that you only have fun when getting gear, you will of course not have fun when you aren't getting gear.

I don't care about gear, that's the funniest thing. I was even giving away or passing on heroic stuff to poor people in LFD if I was winning too much stuff. All I want to do is enter the last two raids in LFR. But here's the catch: I can't queue for them unless I have an average item level of 470. I have 463/465 right now, so what do I need to get in?

[Lemonpartyfan]

Interesting thesis. I'd like to provide one as well: an MMO with too many "chores" (i.e. stifling players) will die.

And I would like to think that I could do something entertaining yet meaningful by logging in every day. That's what it's there for, right? I paid Blizzard for 31 days of game time; you bet your bottom that I'm gonna try to get as much fun out of it as possible. If my only reason to log in is to do dailies, then I'd rather not. I like running dungeons and raids. I do not like to kill 5 goats or collect 20 wings every day, and can't see how this is any more helpful to a faction than slaying their greatest nemesis on a regular basis. I was able to do this in Wrath and Cataclysm. I cannot do this in Pandaria, and quite frankly, this sucks.

You can do that in MoP, you choose to do dailies because you want those rewards.

[Madruga]

Reputation grinding always was required in WoW.

People simply got spoiled by gear readily available in most of the past two expansions.

Gearing up is no even as bad as it was in Classic, BC and in the begining of Cataclysm (before Firelands).

And, you don't really need to grind reputation that much to enter a raid, and then you already have access to superior gear. From Heart of Fear and beyond, gear from valor is almost entirely obsolete.