Forced rep grinding? A plus or minus in MoP

[seta-san]

it's annoying. I wish that when you got to honored or revered that the tabards would start giving you rep in heroics.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Not how I, want too though.

Logging in on any one of them and being able to run a dungeon whenever I wanted was fun.

You can still do that.

[Leonard McCoy]

You can still do that.

Just as you could conceivable do dailies WITHOUT GEAR for YEARS in this game. Why the change? The answer is so bloody obvious and when you get to it you'll realize why the gear is there and why it's a huge compulsion. This game is a massive fucking skinner box and the gear was put behind the dailies ON PURPOSE to get you to do them because NOBODY WOULD TOUCH THEM OTHERWISE. So of course people feel compelled to do it, THAT'S THE FUCKING DESIGN.

Why were dailies never content before? You had a wealth of dailies to occupy your time in cataclysm. A WEALTH. The list of dailies is long as my arm. Are you exalted with every daily faction in the game? Of course not because NONE OF YOU DID IT WITHOUT THE FUCKING GEAR. So now the gear has to be put in place SO THAT YOU FEEL COMPELLED TO DO IT. If you did the dailies without the gear all those years you'd never need the compulsion now.

[Wildtree]

If comparing it to Vanilla, reputatikon gains are way way way way quicker. Even compared to any other expansion, MoP is just way quicker.

Absolutely correct......
Thorium Brotherhood,
Brood of Nozdormu,
Timbermaw Hold
Cenarion Circle
Zandalar Tribe
Argent Dawn

All of them had gear or crafting items gated, and to get the rep was endless work.
Maybe THAT'S where Blizzard made the mistake. By letting people today get those reps in so fast and easy that they basically have no clue (anymore) what rep grind actually really is/was. The MoP rep is gained so ridiculously fast, it's amazing how one can even bitch about it at all. Never in WoW's entire time was it any faster than this time. Plus, one doesn't even need to get to exalted for the "good stuff" Revered unlocks all the valor gear. Honored already parts of it.
TBC had 17 factions to raise, of which every single one had rewards that helped a toon one way or another. There were no tabards to sport for reputation gains in Vanilla and TBC. On top of it, one needed reputation with several factions to be able to buy the keys for the heroic modes of 5 man dungeons...
And yet, the subs climbed and climbed....
Everything changed with WotLK.. When things became much easier, and over the course of the Expansion even more easier.. Suddenly the subs dropped too..
Now it's not clear whether it's a factor, but it certainly looks as if the game was more popular when outside of instances content was actually more time consuming, and rewarding. Plus, I am sure that many players who've spent a lot of time to get to where they were mid WotLK realized how Blizzard went ahead and started to render all the efforts meaningless by handing everything out now for little to no effort at all anymore, including the older content grind.
The return to the more effort needed for reward is a welcomed change to the better.
I can see how the double gating of GL rep unlocking the others can be some kind of a hurdle.. Yet, on the other hand, most factions give some rep already from questing regularly in the leveling zones.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 12:43 AM ----------

Just as you could conceivable do dailies WITHOUT GEAR for YEARS in this game. Why the change? The answer is so bloody obvious and when you get to it you'll realize why the gear is there and why it's a huge compulsion. This game is a massive fucking skinner box and the gear was put behind the dailies ON PURPOSE to get you to do them because NOBODY WOULD TOUCH THEM OTHERWISE. So of course people feel compelled to do it, THAT'S THE FUCKING DESIGN.

What dailies aside from Cooking and Fishing did NOT give gear? There are none... All of them do, and always did.
Well... Netherwing gave a mount. But even skyguards already have gear items too....
So, nope... Gear was almost always an incentive for Reputation through Dailies. This is not new introduced with MoP.

[Leonard McCoy]

Absolutely correct......
Thorium Brotherhood,
Brood of Nozdormu,
Timbermaw Hold
Cenarion Circle
Zandalar Tribe
Argent Dawn

All of them had gear or crafting items gated, and to get the rep was endless work.
Maybe THAT'S where Blizzard made the mistake. By letting people today get those reps in so fast and easy that they basically have no clue (anymore) what rep grind actually really is/was. The MoP rep is gained so ridiculously fast, it's amazing how one can even bitch about it at all. Never in WoW's entire time was it any faster than this time. Plus, one doesn't even need to get to exalted for the "good stuff" Revered unlocks all the valor gear. Honored already parts of it.
TBC had 17 factions to raise, of which every single one had rewards that helped a toon one way or another. There were no tabards to sport for reputation gains in Vanilla and TBC. On top of it, one needed reputation with several factions to be able to buy the keys for the heroic modes of 5 man dungeons...
And yet, the subs climbed and climbed....
Everything changed with WotLK.. When things became much easier, and over the course of the Expansion even more easier.. Suddenly the subs dropped too..
Now it's not clear whether it's a factor, but it certainly looks as if the game was more popular when outside of instances content was actually more time consuming, and rewarding. Plus, I am sure that many players who've spent a lot of time to get to where they were mid WotLK realized how Blizzard went ahead and started to render all the efforts meaningless by handing everything out now for little to no effort at all anymore, including the older content grind.
The return to the more effort needed for reward is a welcomed change to the better.
I can see how the double gating of GL rep unlocking the others can be some kind of a hurdle.. Yet, on the other hand, most factions give some rep already from questing regularly in the leveling zones.

What's ironic is that most of the reps you listed ALSO WERE OBTAINABLE IN DUNGEONS and didn't require me to do a single fucking daily quest. In fact daily quests didn't even exist at that point. Why do people keep glossing over the fact that DOUBLE DIPPING EXISTED EVEN IN FUCKING VANILLA. I would run dungeons for gear and get turn ins at the same time..


This isn't 2006 anymore and if you think the grind model will somehow cure what ails wow then your ignorant. I mean at one point the model for wow may have been fresh but adding more grind isn't what the game needs, in fact it's more likely to turn people off I feel. They need something fresh, they don't need to listen to forum clowns tell them about how good it was back in they day and how Blizzard should make every regressive fucking decision they possible can in order to return the game to some archaic notion of the past that is only really half remembered. Christ even TBC was less of a grind then this. They nerfed keys to honored and I was doing the dungeons anyway for gear. Hell the dungeons GUARANTEED A PIECE OF GEAR AT THE BLOODY END OF THE FUCKING DUNGEON. MoP dungeons offer less. Until 5.2 now that the developers got their heads out of their asses and ignored clowns on forums who supported. I guess you can't hide behind forum defenders for so long.

[mmines]

I couldn't care less for reputation, but coins only being available in dailies pisses me off. Give me 10-15 coins to complete a daily heroic.

This, the rep isn't really required at all considering how long it takes to get there unless you're in a competitive raiding guild looking for server firsts and what not but the coins is what is really needed. That really needs to have other avenues of collection.

[draykorinee]

As much as I think MoP is one of the better expansions, if you take dailies out its the best. The forced boring chug through hideously bloated and uninspiring dailies has made this game the biggest chore. I really despise this aspect of MoP and whoever thought it up is a total idiot. Although I would say the coins are more important than the. reputation

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Just as you could conceivable do dailies WITHOUT GEAR for YEARS in this game. Why the change? The answer is so bloody obvious and when you get to it you'll realize why the gear is there and why it's a huge compulsion. This game is a massive fucking skinner box and the gear was put behind the dailies ON PURPOSE to get you to do them because NOBODY WOULD TOUCH THEM OTHERWISE. So of course people feel compelled to do it, THAT'S THE FUCKING DESIGN.

Why were dailies never content before? You had a wealth of dailies to occupy your time in cataclysm. A WEALTH. The list of dailies is long as my arm. Are you exalted with every daily faction in the game? Of course not because NONE OF YOU DID IT WITHOUT THE FUCKING GEAR. So now the gear has to be put in place SO THAT YOU FEEL COMPELLED TO DO IT. If you did the dailies without the gear all those years you'd never need the compulsion now.

False. If you can't control your own emotions, whose fault is that? Your own. If you go through life being the mouse in a maze looking for cheese, mayeb you should quit video games for awhile and meditate. You aren't forced, unless your only goal in life is to make sure all your reps are up in World of Warcraft, which would be pathetic.

If you are just an LFR raider like I am these days, you can easily, as a matter of fact, get through all the current tiers of LFR without doing a daily.

Also, reputations have always been very important in this game. Dailies/repeatable quests have been important since vanilla as well. if you weren't around back then, I will excuse your ignorance.

[Wildtree]

What's ironic is that most of the reps you listed ALSO WERE OBTAINABLE IN DUNGEONS and didn't require me to do a single fucking daily quest.

Correct, they were RAID Reputations, aside from Timbermaw Hold, which only required to kill an army of mobs, literally... with some 8 -10 rep pts per kill. Hence why I listed them.. For the very reason to show that reputation gain for rewards was never any easier as it is today..
Silly dailies require incomparable less effort than reputation you gained extremely slow through raids. What those Factions yield on Rep today isn't anywhere near what they used to yield. Almost all reputation gains for old factions have been buffed to death..

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

What's ironic is that most of the reps you listed ALSO WERE OBTAINABLE IN DUNGEONS and didn't require me to do a single fucking daily quest. In fact daily quests didn't even exist at that point. Why do people keep glossing over the fact that DOUBLE DIPPING EXISTED EVEN IN FUCKING VANILLA. I would run dungeons for gear and get turn ins at the same time..


This isn't 2006 anymore and if you think the grind model will somehow cure what ails wow then your ignorant. I mean at one point the model for wow may have been fresh but adding more grind isn't what the game needs, in fact it's more likely to turn people off I feel. They need something fresh, they don't need to listen to forum clowns tell them about how good it was back in they day and how Blizzard should make every regressive fucking decision they possible can in order to return the game to some archaic notion of the past that is only really half remembered. Christ even TBC was less of a grind then this. They nerfed keys to honored and I was doing the dungeons anyway for gear. Hell the dungeons GUARANTEED A PIECE OF GEAR AT THE BLOODY END OF THE FUCKING DUNGEON. MoP dungeons offer less. Until 5.2 now that the developers got their heads out of their asses and ignored clowns on forums who supported. I guess you can't hide behind forum defenders for so long.

False.....

[Wildtree]

Also, reputations have always been very important in this game. Dailies/repeatable quests have been important since vanilla as well. if you weren't around back then, I will excuse your ignorance.

Yup repeatable quests are in the game since vanilla..
Silithus - turn in bug parts....
Argent Dawn - multiple different item turn ins repeatable
Main Factions - Quartermaster cloth turn ins repeatable
Oh, and Tailors were able to turn cloth in with Timbermaw Hold too.
Thorium Brotherhood also has repeatable quests

[announced]

with the rep badges gaining rep is fine now. the most painful one was easily the golden lotus.. but after 3 years u can finally reach revered and then gain a 100% rep buff for them permanently.. the rest of them werent that bad. i understand how you wouldnt like doing dailys.. but what else is there to do when u login and are waiting for the dungeon Q as a dps?

[Leonard McCoy]

Correct, they were RAID Reputations, aside from Timbermaw Hold, which only required to kill an army of mobs, literally... with some 8 -10 rep pts per kill. Hence why I listed them.. For the very reason to show that reputation gain for rewards was never any easier as it is today..
Silly dailies require incomparable less effort than reputation you gained extremely slow through raids. What those Factions yield on Rep today isn't anywhere near what they used to yield. Almost all reputation gains for old factions have been buffed to death..

Argent Dawn was not a raid reputation. Or not exclusively. You could get rep out of them from DUNGEONS. 5 mans. Neither was thorium brotherhood. You could get that out of dungeon turn ins as well. NOT FUCKING DAILY QUESTS.
---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 07:01 AM ----------

[/COLOR]

False.....

Actually no it's not. The last boss in tbc heroic dungeons guaranteed an epic.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Yup repeatable quests are in the game since vanilla..
Silithus - turn in bug parts....
Argent Dawn - multiple different item turn ins repeatable
Main Factions - Quartermaster cloth turn ins repeatable
Oh, and Tailors were able to turn cloth in with Timbermaw Hold too.
Thorium Brotherhood also has repeatable quests

yeah I don't understand the fuss. With the huge amounts of rep, gold, valor, and eventually easy to get rewards at the end, dailies are a great deal. Somehow, people were totally happy grinding those reps with friends/guildies back in the day though. It really is just the attitude of the masses now. Its so gear centric. They are obsessed with it, and not getting it, or things that slow them from getting it piss them off. I was always pumped to get gear in vanilla, as it meant I could help my group and friends and guildies more, but damn, I never raged THIS hard about it. (Except maybe trying to get those Lightforge Boots)

[Leonard McCoy]

yeah I don't understand the fuss. With the huge amounts of rep, gold, valor, and eventually easy to get rewards at the end, dailies are a great deal. Somehow, people were totally happy grinding those reps with friends/guildies back in the day though. It really is just the attitude of the masses now. Its so gear centric. They are obsessed with it, and not getting it, or things that slow them from getting it piss them off. I was always pumped to get gear in vanilla, as it meant I could help my group and friends and guildies more, but damn, I never raged THIS hard about it. (Except maybe trying to get those Lightforge Boots)

Because the reputations are no longer tied to an activity people would be doing anyway. Even in VANILLA I would be running dungeons and getting turn ins for rep. Hence in 5.2 DOUBLE DIPPING IS BACK albeit in limited capacity. It's baby steps. The developers have to completely pull their heads out of their asses. Furthermore the masses are gear centric? Not only is that a tacit acknowledgement that the gear itself in the dailies acts as a massive compulsion it also a acknowledgment that if the gear wasn't behind the fucking dailies NOBODY WOULD DO THEM and thus it has to be behind the dailies to get people to do them. Dailies were ALWAYS A THING TO DO in the past but never had this much gear or reward behind them.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Argent Dawn was not a raid reputation. Or not exclusively. You could get rep out of them from DUNGEONS. 5 mans. Neither was thorium brotherhood. You could get that out of dungeon turn ins as well. NOT FUCKING DAILY QUESTS.
---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 07:01 AM ----------

[/COLOR]

Actually no it's not. The last boss in tbc heroic dungeons guaranteed an epic.

You said it guaranteed you a piece of gear, which is false.

You could get AD rep from Dungeons up to Honored I think, then it was only quests/repeatables after that. TB was the same, raid and dungeon or quests or repeatables. You are aware that dailies are repeatable with a daily limit, right?

[MrKnubbles]

I don't know about you guys, but I already finished my "chores" like rep grinding and professions. The biggest chore now is to max out VP every week for upgrades since I don't need the VP gear anymore. I don't want to run these dungeons and I don't want to do dailies since there are no additional bonuses besides the VP.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Because the reputations are no longer tied to an activity people would be doing anyway. Even in VANILLA I would be running dungeons and getting turn ins for rep. Hence in 5.2 DOUBLE DIPPING IS BACK albeit in limited capacity. It's baby steps. The developers have to completely pull their heads out of their asses.

Most of the turn-ins stopped at a lower tiered reputation. Regardless, its still grinding for repeatables, except X1000. You can get to exalted very quickly now. Even the eggs gathering in this xpac is streamlines for faster egg spawn rates with higher rep rewards.

[Leonard McCoy]

You said it guaranteed you a piece of gear, which is false.

You could get AD rep from Dungeons up to Honored I think, then it was only quests/repeatables after that. TB was the same, raid and dungeon or quests or repeatables. You are aware that dailies are repeatable with a daily limit, right?

Dailies didn't exist in vanilla. Tbc had turn ins but those were items that you also got from... DUNGEONS. Every single fucking rep you could farm in dungeons if you so chose. Including vanilla reps with the exception of the furlbogs.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 07:09 AM ----------

Most of the turn-ins stopped at a lower tiered reputation. Regardless, its still grinding for repeatables, except X1000. You can get to exalted very quickly now. Even the eggs gathering in this xpac is streamlines for faster egg spawn rates with higher rep rewards.

Which you could either totally BUY circumventing much of the grind OR GET FROM DUNGEONS. In NO WAY WAS I ASKED TO GO OUT OF MY WAY TO DO SHIT I DIDN'T WANT TO DO IN THE FIRST PLACE. See that's what you don't fucking get. You acknowledge that the gear centric masses have a problem with dailies but can't seem to see the fact that the gear is put behind those dailies to get those same masses to do the fucking dailies. See you people and Blizzard as much as you try and hide behind it can't get around the fact that people of course feel compelled to do it because the gear is there to make you feel compelled to do it. The "gear centric masses" only follow one thing so of course the dailies have to have one thing behind them to get them to do it. Just like the mouse and the cheese.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Dailies didn't exist in vanilla. Tbc had turn ins but those were items that you also got from... DUNGEONS. Every single fucking rep you could farm in dungeons if you so chose. Including vanilla reps with the exception of the furlbogs.

I said Vanilla had repreatables lol, don't try to give me a history lesson hahaahaha.

No, not every BC faction had turn in quests. Some were dailies, some were turn ins.