Forced rep grinding? A plus or minus in MoP

[Ferocity]

Correct, they were RAID Reputations, aside from Timbermaw Hold, which only required to kill an army of mobs, literally... with some 8 -10 rep pts per kill. Hence why I listed them.. For the very reason to show that reputation gain for rewards was never any easier as it is today..
Silly dailies require incomparable less effort than reputation you gained extremely slow through raids. What those Factions yield on Rep today isn't anywhere near what they used to yield. Almost all reputation gains for old factions have been buffed to death..

So you really don't see difference between:

1. Gaining reputation through raids. Through collaboration with 14/19/39 other people. All of them working towards one goal. With everyone having their own role and responsibility, which were making one great synergy, known as raid. It was adding another layer to guild management - distribution of ZG coins/bijous, AQ scarabs, MC cores for the optimal output. In TBC 5-men collaboration was enough for many factions.

2. Gaining reputation through dailies. Where you, e.g. as tank or healer, are attempting to kill some mob which aggro'd on you near quest object, and that quest object being stolen by someone else (who didn't even bother to help in any way while you try to kill damn mob)? When you as tank kill some mobs, and some griever tags and pulls more into your aoe? Or, most hilarious example, when people advice tanks (I mostly mean shield-tanks) or healers (btw holy paladins don't even have AoE) to AoE mobs - so when there are only 2-3 mobs up (as there are other people in zone) and you need like 10 of them, and you can't even group them for lol-AoE as they are quite far from each other.

So you don't really see how it is all different? Pt. 1 represents collaboration, Pt. 2 represents highly anti-social way, fully designed around dps.

No, having multiple ways to get gear doesn't mean you have to do them all.

As we obviously play different games: at least for 10-men it is the only way to gain gear reliably - rep + charms slightly helping with lottery, as lottery system of rewards is just one big LOL. The tiny little thing which made raiding somewhat rewarding - it was during TBC (badges and crafted/PvP gear in other slots), and in WotLK (emblems and introducing BoEs, so individual raiders could even make some small profit from raids if they didn't need emblems gear anymore). Those are vital. People can spread that lie that "raids rain epics" while they never were (especially 10-men). Instead of improving system of raid rewards, developers took away the only reliable reward they had and put it behind dailies.

One can say dailies are optional, all rewards are optional, gear is optional - why the heck to play at all then? One can see content in LFR or youtube videos. WHy bother paying sub for each month if you are to do mostly dailies day over and over for rep/charms. What is fun in highly anti-social activity in MMORPG.

I also doubt that no one here did the dailies in BC, as they were pretty necessary as far as getting your epic flying went.

If you were doing TBC dailies for gold, you were doing it wrong. Granted, they were more rewarding relatively to current ones goldwise, there were much better ways to make gold.

[Wildtree]

Not really an issue on mains - i was geared ready for raiding on my first week of hitting 90. I was a tank too, so you can argue that my gear had to be good to tank MSV normal in the blue heroic gear. Yes the gear progression means it can be a bit of a steep hill if you want to jump in right on HoF/TotES, which you can't do but its there for a reason - so you can't skip content. Some people may hate that, others like it.

As for stuff like Rep ect, again it's not quite as bad now as it was when MoP was released. Getting your main to revered and getting the commendations helps a lot with alts, though its not an ideal solution by any means. I do feel like they kind of make valor gear pointless since by the time you have the required rep and valor, you'll most likely have LFR gear, which although not quite as good, is easier to get than grinding rep. Oh and if you still struggle to get the ilvl into LFR? Craft the 476 epics. I mean really. Seen so many people completely ignore them but they are really easy to make matt wise, and at this point in time as long as you are on a good pop realm, you could probably buy them on AH on the cheap`.

5.2 changes should make everyone happy, rep from dungeons, rep via the ranch, old valor items having their valor cost halved making it easier for alts to gear ect... Lots of good changes that should make complaints like this less of an issue.

As i've echoed time and time again, its only your own perception that you are forced into rep grinds. I personally haven't done dailies (except the ranch ones for cooking token) since November and i still manage to bag about 700 valor each week.

I welcome the system as it is, since the start. Having a choice of not needing to run 5 mans until the ears and eyes bleed is a huge relief. And the dailies are at such large amount, that one can alter them so greatly, it never feels really like a total grind either. Counting now even the commendations buff... I just started to halfass seriously progress an alt.. I was towards Exalted from the zone quests in Dread Wastes alone. I think I done the dailies some 3 or 4 times and bam, exalted. Golden Lotus was way easy to get to revered to unlock the others.
Shao-Pan also had a head start from regular quest rep. The only faction that's really a little more effort to be put in is August Celestials. Domination Point is super easy too, and since it comes along with a nice quest chain, plus the Black Prince Rep, it's double dipping fun.
With 5.2 things turn again into a no brainer and non issue, I agree.

[HardCoder]

Is it so hard to read that people want rep from dungeons (!!!) not from dailies, where tanks and healers are pushed into killing 9999999999 HP mobs.

YES.

My two most played toons are primarily healers, and I freakin' hate grinding mobs on them, either in healing spec or by playing a DPS spec I don't like. That same thing annoys me about MoP leveling, where GC apparently decided it would be "interesting" if Pandaria was made "deadly."

[Wildtree]

So you really don't see difference between:

1. Gaining reputation through raids. Through collaboration with 14/19/39 other people. All of them working towards one goal. With everyone having their own role and responsibility, which were making one great synergy, known as raid. It was adding another layer to guild management - distribution of ZG coins/bijous, AQ scarabs, MC cores for the optimal output. In TBC 5-men collaboration was enough for many factions.

2. Gaining reputation through dailies. Where you, e.g. as tank or healer, are attempting to kill some mob which aggro'd on you near quest object, and that quest object being stolen by someone else (who didn't even bother to help in any way while you try to kill damn mob)? When you as tank kill some mobs, and some griever tags and pulls more into your aoe? Or, most hilarious example, when people advice tanks (I mostly mean shield-tanks) or healers (btw holy paladins don't even have AoE) to AoE mobs - so when there are only 2-3 mobs up (as there are other people in zone) and you need like 10 of them, and you can't even group them for lol-AoE as they are quite far from each other.

So you don't really see how it is all different? Pt. 1 represents collaboration, Pt. 2 represents highly anti-social way, fully designed around dps.

That was never the point. The point I made was that Raid Rep has/had a lot more efforts, time investment, and grind than a few simple dailies. Because we were talking about dailies and reputable quests, nothing else.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 02:04 AM ----------

YES.

My two most played toons are primarily healers, and I freakin' hate grinding mobs on them, either in healing spec or by playing a DPS spec I don't like. That same thing annoys me about MoP leveling, where GC apparently decided it would be "interesting" if Pandaria was made "deadly."

Ok, I can sympathize with that reason, in regard of a healer. My main is a healer too, and I couldn't do what I do with him using my offspec...
In regards of a tank, not so much. They don't really are in danger of dying on every second mob pull.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 02:07 AM ----------

If you were doing TBC dailies for gold, you were doing it wrong. Granted, they were more rewarding relatively to current ones goldwise, there were much better ways to make gold.

That's a gutsy statement, because the way of making gold vary greatly and depend a lot on a realms situation and population. On some realms making money may as well be the easiest way through either quest income or lower dungeons farming (before they nerfed the loot to the ground).

[AVPaul]

May be we have so much grind because Blizzard are oriented on China market now? Not just because they like China players more, then us, but because China market is much more wider, then ours. If it's true and China player love grind so much, then may be Blizzard should make a separate version of Wow for China with more grind? And if dailies are forced so much because Blizzard want revive world PVP, then may be they should force their dailies only on PVP server, just because there will be no world PVP on PVE servers anyway and nobody want it there anyway? For example: Tol Barad like daily zone without flying mounts in 5.2. Why should I have the same bullcrap on PVE server, where I'm playing? Flying mount is the only thing, that help to spot quest mob or item in reasonable amount of time due daily zone being very overcrowded. It will took hours of riding around to complete this crappy dailies. I'm hating dailies now, but in 5.2 it will be too terrible.