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  1. #101
    Yeah I guess tell her lol
    Last edited by kippi; 2013-01-27 at 12:23 PM.

  2. #102
    Also what controversy? Luc Montagnier was widely derided.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    That the scientific studies I linked are inconvenient to your claim, isn't a rational reason to dismiss them.
    I was curious who would have to play the "confirmation bias" card first to try to win a stupid debate. I'm glad I was able to hold out longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    I welcome you to try disprove scientific consensus with real evidence. But I'm not holding my breath.
    18 years of personal experience aside in my own case...

    Here's some for other applications of the practice:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9310601
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14734789


    and as to my point earlier on how efficacy rates for CH treatments can be very odd and hard to measure:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15455406

    That's a diarrhea treatment...

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 05:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmiggy View Post
    As entertaining as this has been to read, this is going around and around in circles..

    He's saying that the drug is producing actual results, therefor isn't a placebo without acknowledging that the actual results could in fact be a result of the placebo effect. You've explained the placebo effect, and I'm not entirely convinced he gets it.. or rather he understands the concepts individually but when he starts to bring it all together the little voice inside his head goes "lalalalalalala not listening not listening!".

    If he did however acknowledge the results were purely due to the placebo effect, I'd be genuinely interested in knowing if he continued to receive the same level of benefit as he did before..
    With a placebo effect the results are usually unreliable or inconsistent and very short-lived. It's been effective for months now. I'm also well aware of the placebo effect, I however do not agree in my case that is what is going on as my experience doesn't conform to what would be expected. Your opinion would insinuate that I have some sort of vested interest in this...like I could give a fuck beyond trying to show someone that being skeptical is fine but not to the point where it just becomes ignorance. I'm not advocating that it's all awesome and should be taken at face value because it helped some people, but saying it's 100% bullshit is disingenuous to say the least.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 05:34 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Also what controversy? Luc Montagnier was widely derided.
    Shocking, people disagreed. Call the newspapers because that never happens.

    Going to bed now, enjoy your circle jerk.
    Last edited by Tradewind; 2013-01-27 at 12:44 PM.
    "No more 1966. Lets splurge! Bring us some fresh wine! The freshest you’ve got, this year! No more of this old stuff."
    On Parole from Retard Rehabilitation since October 22, 2014.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Tradewind isn't helping.

  4. #104
    Inform her how homeopathy was invented. By a single german man with some crazy ideas with no single scientific foundation.

    Samuel Hahnemann (10 April 1755 – 2 July 1843)

    While translating William Cullen's A Treatise on the Materia Medica, Hahnemann encountered the claim that cinchona, the bark of a Peruvian tree, was effective in treating malaria because of its astringency. Hahnemann believed that other astringent substances are not effective against malaria and began to research cinchona's effect on the human body by self-application. Noting that the drug induced malaria-like symptoms in himself, he concluded that it would do so in any healthy individual. This led him to postulate a healing principle: "that which can produce a set of symptoms in a healthy individual, can treat a sick individual who is manifesting a similar set of symptoms."

    This principle, like cures like, became the basis for an approach to medicine which he gave the name homeopathy.

    Today we know that the in Quinine ((R)-(6-Methoxyquinolin-4-yl)((2S,4S,8R)-8-vinylquinuclidin-2-yl)methanol) in cinchona is the reason it works against malaria (It facilitates the aggregation of cytotoxic heme. Free cytotoxic heme accumulates in the parasites, causing their deaths.).

    So he based the whole idea on a wrong assumption. Information und knowledge is power. Don't let her be ignorant and stupid. Tell her that she just reduced the intake of Calories/Joule. It has nothing to do with the water or the homeopathy.

    Eat less but more often and healthy food (less burgers, more salads) and moderate exercise is the key to loose weight. It's not so fancy, but definitly cheaper than 150$/month for tap water with some mumbo jumbo name.
    Last edited by Kryos; 2013-01-27 at 12:42 PM.




  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    Your opinion would insinuate that I have some sort of vested interest in this...like I could give a fuck beyond trying to show someone that being skeptical is fine but not to the point where it just becomes ignorance.
    But you do have a vested interest in this. If it were in fact simply a placebo effect, and that what you were ingesting was completely and utterly useless, it would cause you to question the actual results, and likely any future results, thus threatening the chances of continued success with the "treatment".

    By refusing to acknowledge that it may be a placebo effect, you can continue to enable it. If it continues to give you positive results, more power to you, although I'd be looking to dig down in your backyard as far as it takes to hit water and convincing myself that it was enriched with special anti migraine minerals.. that way I could get an endless supply for free.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    I was curious who would have to play the "confirmation bias" card first to try to win a stupid debate. I'm glad I was able to hold out longer.
    It's funny how you apparently have no idea what confirmation bias even means.

    18 years of personal experience
    Is meaningless and unscientific.

    (Some of) the same authors two years later: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10391656
    "We conclude that in the study set investigated, there was clear evidence that studies with better methodological quality tended to yield less positive results."

    "This study was designed as a feasibility or pilot study rather than a definitive clinical trial". They also used a 10% significance level which is quite improper. Absolutely does not prove that an inert substance has actual medicinal values.

    Shocking, people disagreed.
    What's shocking is you disregarding how almost the entire scientific field disagreed.
    Last edited by semaphore; 2013-01-27 at 01:08 PM.

  7. #107
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    I believe XKCD has the appropriate comic:



    Seriously, people. Science 101. It's a placebo, and it only treats symptoms, not the root cause.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  8. #108
    Herald of the Titans Hargalaten's Avatar
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    If it motivates her i don't see much reason to tell her that it doesen't make a diffrence. As long as it doesen't go out of hand.

    When you look long enough, Diglett's nose turns into a mouth with 1 tooth!

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I believe XKCD has the appropriate comic:



    Seriously, people. Science 101. It's a placebo, and it only treats symptoms, not the root cause.
    It doesn't treat anything. There are literally not enough molecules of medicine in a homeopathic "remedy" to have any effect of significance.

    It's literally a case of mind over matter - you took something that says it will make you feel better, and you feel better because you believe you should. Not because there's actual medicine going to work; no, you're just drinking an expensive bottle of water.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiing View Post
    If it motivates her i don't see much reason to tell her that it doesen't make a diffrence. As long as it doesen't go out of hand.
    I'd say the more serious question is why the hell are you dating a chick who believes in that crap? Horoscopes are one thing, but homeopathy?
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiing View Post
    If it motivates her i don't see much reason to tell her that it doesen't make a diffrence. As long as it doesen't go out of hand.
    Dude, 500 calories a day isn't something you should motivate people towards - it's unhealthy as hell and WILL cause health issues.
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    It doesn't treat anything. There are literally not enough molecules of medicine in a homeopathic "remedy" to have any effect of significance.

    It's literally a case of mind over matter - you took something that says it will make you feel better, and you feel better because you believe you should. Not because there's actual medicine going to work; no, you're just drinking an expensive bottle of water.
    Yeah yeah, be nitpicky over it if you like. The taking of the medicine induces the placebo effect which results in alleviation of symptoms. Happy?
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Yeah yeah, be nitpicky over it if you like. The taking of the medicine induces the placebo effect which results in alleviation of symptoms. Happy?
    They aren't even taking medicine, because there's not enough active ingredients to have an actual effect. It's important to note that
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/PizzaSHARK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiing View Post
    If it motivates her i don't see much reason to tell her that it doesen't make a diffrence. As long as it doesen't go out of hand.
    It actually seems pretty out of hand to only have 500 calories... I only eat one meal a day and I'm pretty sure I still get twice that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I believe XKCD has the appropriate comic:
    Hey I linked that like, 4 pages ago!

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Hey I linked that like, 4 pages ago!
    I'm lazy. Besides, Master Monroe is a veritable font of wisdom. He deserves credit when due.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  16. #116
    Herald of the Titans Hargalaten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Dude, 500 calories a day isn't something you should motivate people towards - it's unhealthy as hell and WILL cause health issues.
    Yes 500 Calories is a bit low. I don't know how much of a problem weight is for his/her wife. I think the lowest you can go was around 900 iirc.
    But with motivating her i meant more something like motivating her to diet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I'd say the more serious question is why the hell are you dating a chick who believes in that crap? Horoscopes are one thing, but homeopathy?
    Well i can only assume this came after they started dating! People change a lot along the way

    When you look long enough, Diglett's nose turns into a mouth with 1 tooth!

  17. #117
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    150 euros per month for ionized water ? Talk about victims of advertisement . Talk TO HER ! It's important that she knows what she's been taking and that she needs or might need to check up on a psychologist .

    I'm really disturbed by the unseen traps that exist in today's world .

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiing View Post
    Yes 500 Calories is a bit low. I don't know how much of a problem weight is for his/her wife. I think the lowest you can go was around 900 iirc.
    But with motivating her i meant more something like motivating her to diet.



    Well i can only assume this came after they started dating! People change a lot along the way
    A bit low? It's literally a quarter of the daily recommended intake. Unless she's very small or has a metabolism which is much more active than normal (in which case she wouldn't be wanting/needing to lose weight anyway), even 1400 calories a day would qualify as "extreme weight loss."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    The best you people can do is throw insults and lay your perspective on what a real adult is onto me but I will continue to reject them. And you will try and try again, force me into submission but I will continue to press on.
    MMOC IRC!

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arian21 View Post
    150 euros per month for ionized water ? Talk about victims of advertisement . Talk TO HER ! It's important that she knows what she's been taking and that she needs or might need to check up on a psychologist .

    I'm really disturbed by the unseen traps that exist in today's world .
    Really? After ShakeWeights, Kinoki Pads, Potty Putters, and



    -This- is the thing that disturbs you?
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  20. #120
    Herald of the Titans Hargalaten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    A bit low? It's literally a quarter of the daily recommended intake. Unless she's very small or has a metabolism which is much more active than normal (in which case she wouldn't be wanting/needing to lose weight anyway), even 1400 calories a day would qualify as "extreme weight loss."
    Why does 1400 calories counts as extreme weight loss? isn't the calorie intake for women about 1600?

    Recommendations

    The number of calories a woman needs daily varies according to age. Younger women generally need more calories than older women, as they tend to have more muscle mass and be more active. A woman aged 19 to 30 years needs between 2,000 and 2,400 calories daily. A woman aged 31 to 50 years needs 1,800 to 2,200 calories daily. Women over age 51 need 1,600 to 2,200 calories daily.

    Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/36...#ixzz2JBLVHIAP
    Last edited by Hargalaten; 2013-01-27 at 01:26 PM.

    When you look long enough, Diglett's nose turns into a mouth with 1 tooth!

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