View Poll Results: should shammys be allowed to use swords

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  • Yes, all shammys should

    85 34.41%
  • yes but only for enhan shammy

    40 16.19%
  • no

    122 49.39%
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  1. #61
    Scarab Lord Viridiancity's Avatar
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    The 'Religious' races tend to be raced around a particular sect of a particular race. Abilities and flavor stuff tend to focus on this.

    Shaman tend towards axes because, well, Orcs tend towards axes. Axes are powerful, primitive, and brutish, and it's more about the strength and blind fury of the user than their finesse with the weapon.

    Priests abilities and lore are all based on the Human/High Elf priest of the previous Warcrafts, despite the fact that Priestesses of Elune, Sunwalkers, Forsaken Priests and Troll Priests all exist and follow radically different faiths. It's a catch-all.

    Ditto Paladins all being based around the Knight of the Silver Hand, with no regard to the differences of Blood Elves, Draenei and Tauren orders (granted, none of those existed in vanilla)

    Druids discount the typical Troll druidom, which is the same primitive animalistic worship you can see in the priests of any given Zul'again instance that take on animalistic forms or aspects.

    Monks are Pandaren style monks, regardless of the prior existence of Scarlet Crusade and Auchenai Draenei monks before Mists of Pandaria.





    But anyway.

    Shaman don't use swords because Orcs don't use swords*.


    *Yeah, yeah. Blademasters. Those are heroes, the few remaining berserkers of a warrior-clan that is mostly dissolved or evil. Rank and file Orcs don't use swords.

  2. #62
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    I don't like the idea of swords for Shaman. They just don't fit the class IMO. Maces, Axes, and Daggers are good enough.

    Swords just seem too refined for the classes' style.

  3. #63
    If they don't give Enhancement Swords they should take Axes away from Rogues.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaizo View Post
    If they don't give Enhancement Swords they should take Axes away from Rogues.
    pretty much this. rogues and axes dont mix so why limit shammys

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by krunksmash View Post
    pretty much this. rogues and axes dont mix so why limit shammys
    Axes are even more fitting than maces for rogues and they could wield maces since vanilla.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


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  6. #66
    Shamans should only use maces.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeonde View Post
    Would be stupid imo. I don't even understand why they can use fist weapons. Should've been Axes and Maces only ...
    They can use fist weapons because the Shaman unit in warcraft 3 that their class is based on and named after used a fist weapon. Also agility fist weapons are only useful for combat rogues and enhancement shammies. Removing half the classes that use them would be silly.

    Besides they have had intellect fist weapons here and there for shammies to use as elemental and resto as well, though with homogenization going further and further every patch and silly complaints like yours, I doubt there will ever be any more of those unless they are vendor bought or crafted.
    I like ponies and I really don't care what you have to say about that.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Barky View Post
    I do agree with this, makes the itemisation a shit ton easier for blizzard too.

    I was just saying something I read a long long time ago on the forums asking this exact same question giving shamans the ability to use swords. Wasn't expecting such a vast reply haha!

    Though it seems that swords are being more and more phased out and replaced by agility axes / fist weapons. Was there even an epic one hand agility sword in the current raids at all?

    Will be interesting to see if 5.2 has one in the loot table or not, I would assume not since it has to cater to enhancement, monks and rogues, and their common ground are axes and fist weapons. (Orc racial paradise...)
    Well, theres no Axes or maces either in current raids. All of the raid drops are fist weapons. So far, the 5.2 raid has an agi fist and an agi mace.

  9. #69
    Make it so that Enhancement shaman switches daggers with swords. Win-Win-Win situation. Those finger-waggers get their caster daggers and we enhancement wont have to deal with having no crafted weapon in the next expansion.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by krunksmash View Post
    pretty much this. rogues and axes dont mix so why limit shammys
    Because that would mean they have to remove axes for the most part as raid drops. Currently they are on some stupid kick about fist weapons looking all kungfu and whatnot. That is why fist weapons are in nearly every raid this xpac. You won't see any agi swords from now on either with enh shammys not being able to use them. Besides, a one handed axe or hatchet fits very well with the rogue motif.
    Last edited by delus; 2013-02-04 at 05:08 PM.

  11. #71
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    Because that would mean they have to remove axes for the most part as raid drops. Currently they are on some stupid kick about fist weapons looking all kungfu and whatnot. That is why fist weapons are in nearly every raid this xpac. You won't see any agi swords from now on either with enh shammys not being able to use them. Besides, a one handed axe or hatchet fits very well with the rogue motif.
    Except we've seen multiple agi swords in raid content since cata - along with the forever ignored argument by naysayers of craftables the last 2 rounds being agi sword with no alternative.

    There's no practical reason ingame to not allow ENHANCE to use swords, it will not give us more choice anymore than monks and rogues already have. It will mean blizzard can (continue!) to make any agi weapon they want and it doesn't come at a deficit to anyone, unless they decide to make 2.6 agi daggers all expansion long (not going to happen)
    Last edited by Raiju; 2013-02-04 at 10:34 PM.

  12. #72
    Bloodsail Admiral KunkkaTheAdmiral's Avatar
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    I dont mind only using axes / maces, not even fist weapons.. but whats even more concerning, I haven't found a single agility mace or axe in the new raids. Correct me if I'm wrong of course, I did not find one in my atlas, sad
    "Why do we fight? To protect home and family, to preserve balance and bring harmony. For my kind the true question is, what is worth fighting for?"

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Weapon restrictions are mostly not lore-based. They're itemization-based. They want most specs to have some restrictions, to force choices in gearing and to prevent EVERY drop being a free-for-all; same reason there's cloth/leather/mail/plate differences that they've tried to enforce.
    Except in this specific case of swords, that isn't happening at all. They simply are not putting in swords. There hasn't been a raid boss sword drop since tier 11. They won't do that because shaman can't use them. So the end result is the exact same as if shaman could use swords and they did put them in the game: everyone wanting non dagger agi weapons is in a free-for-all for every non dagger agi weapon because other than swords, all the people wanting them can use all of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaizo View Post
    If they don't give Enhancement Swords they should take Axes away from Rogues.
    Why? You want axes removed from boss drops for some reason? Because thats what blizz has decided is appropriate for weapons that not everyone can use so that the loot tables are as little cluttered as possible by weapons not many can use.
    Last edited by Sesshou; 2013-02-04 at 09:51 PM.

  14. #74
    Shaman tend towards axes because, well, Orcs tend towards axes. Axes are powerful, primitive, and brutish, and it's more about the strength and blind fury of the user than their finesse with the weapon.
    Warriors are more about brutish strenght than shamans, but can weild swords. Not a viable argument at all. Also Orcs use swords plenty also. The burning blade clan for instance has a flaming sword as symbol and is the source of the blademasters, who, who'd have guessed, use swords at a master level. Also trolls are just as shamanistic as orcs are, and they fit swords just as good as they fit axes.

    Axes are even more fitting than maces for rogues and they could wield maces since vanilla.
    And that is an actual argument for rogue maces because...? All it would amount to is that maces were out of place from begin with, and with axes the unsuited weapon types rogues have access to have increased to two. All the more reason to even out things for all agi 1h users.

    I don't like the idea of swords for Shaman. They just don't fit the class IMO. Maces, Axes, and Daggers are good enough.
    Swords just seem too refined for the classes' style.
    Well, daggers are primarily assasination tools, which match enhance even less than swords would. More importantly, if it is style that's bothering: where's the problem exactly? Mog it into an axe or mace if that is what you prefer. It's like saying: "I dont want to have chocolate ice cream, even though I can trade it for vanilla or strawberry anyways. I just dont like the idea of having the option of having chocolate ice cream, even if it wouldn't affect me anyways, only others, who have the same option of choosing what they want"
    It doesn't make any sense. It comes down to taste anyways, and it doesn't make sense to have keep options limited that are only of cosmetic AND optional nature anyways. With x-mog, some people run around with good looking stuff, others look like they're wearing a clown suit. You may as well forbid those players to mog what they want so they dont offend your eyes.

    There's no practical reason ingame to lot not allow ENHANCE to use swords, it will give us the same choices as monks and rogues already have. It will mean blizzard can (start!) to make any agi weapon they want and it doesn't come at a deficit to anyone, unless they decide to make 2.6 agi daggers all expansion long (not going to happen)
    Fixed. It didn't make any sense before. If blizzard decides to makes swords, they will inevitably exclude enh and enh alone from a weapon option among 1h agi classes. If they were sworn to the cause of fair loot distribution, they would be forbidden to implement any swords, to not make that happen. Giving swords to shamans as an option would mean blizz could freely choose which type to implement in their loottables. It's pretty simple actually.

    And yes, daggers are a pain in the ass (both literally and design-wise). However for daggers to be applicable as weapons for enh and ww, there would be LOTS of class design changes need to be made OR daggers would have to be treated as 2.6 whenever weilded by those classes.
    If blizzard did that and agreed to let swords/axes/maces also be mogged to fists and daggers (as they have different animations) and vice versa, I wouldn't complain about having daggers as an option either.

    Would I actually mog weapons into daggers? Certainly not. Would I mog daggers into something else? ASAP. Would there be a reason to not give daggers to shamans as an actually viable option? NOPE. Wether or not others would actually run with them as visible weapons, it wouldn't concern me at all.

    There's simply no reason to keep swords away from enhancement, but three good ones to do so: more loot avaiability for enh, more freedom for blizz when implementing swords and more x-mog options for enh. That's all there is to it, really. Style got violated in worse ways, dudes. Get over it.

    What, gnome warriors or pandaren in general, goblin shamans, tauren priests/paladins, troll warlocks and all that is acceptable, but shamans taking a different type of weapon to whack their enemies with, that crossed the line? You serious?
    Last edited by Omanley; 2013-02-04 at 10:18 PM.
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  15. #75
    The Lightbringer Vellerix's Avatar
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    I would swap daggers for swords any day.

  16. #76
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post

    Fixed. It didn't make any sense before. If blizzard decides to makes swords, they will inevitably exclude enh and enh alone from a weapon option among 1h agi classes. If they were sworn to the cause of fair loot distribution, they would be forbidden to implement any swords, to not make that happen. Giving swords to shamans as an option would mean blizz could freely choose which type to implement in their loottables. It's pretty simple actually.
    Thanks, but only the first bit was a correct change. The continue is correct because they already make agility swords. "it will not give us more" and "it will give us the same" are synonymous in this case.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Thanks, but only the first bit was a correct change. The continue is correct because they already make agility swords. "it will not give us more" and "it will give us the same" are synonymous in this case.
    They don't really make agi swords though. They threw in a blue one and random crap so they can say they exist, but there has not been a raid boss dropped agi sword since tier 11. They are willing to include it in 5 man drops and stuff like that because they don't really have to worry about wasted space on loot tables. Theres so many 5 man bosses, they have plenty of space. Stuff like crafting and pvp isn't based on loot drops so thats fine. Shaman already do have the same as all other agi 1 hander classes. This tier we have 2 fists, and next we have a mace and a fist. There are no swords in raids to be disappointed that you can't equip. No agi class has had a competitive sword option since tier 11.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    Well, theres no Axes or maces either in current raids. All of the raid drops are fist weapons. So far, the 5.2 raid has an agi fist and an agi mace.
    an Agility MACE? Hot damn! gonna try to get 2 of those for my Dwarf to piggy back the expertise :P
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  19. #79
    Scarab Lord Viridiancity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    Warriors are more about brutish strenght than shamans, but can weild swords. Not a viable argument at all. Also Orcs use swords plenty also. The burning blade clan for instance has a flaming sword as symbol and is the source of the blademasters, who, who'd have guessed, use swords at a master level. Also trolls are just as shamanistic as orcs are, and they fit swords just as good as they fit axes.
    Did you disregard every other part of my post that had answers to all of that?

    First, 'religious' classes, of which a Warriors is not, all follow an individual race's feelings and aesthetics on that 'religion'

    Shaman == Orc (see: Ghost Wolf form)
    Druid == Night Elf
    Priest == Human/Dwarf
    Paladin == Human/Dwarf
    Monk == Pandaren

    Warriors are a generalization. They are represented in every race, and no race really gives the ideal of a Warrior more than any other-- everyone has their weapon-swinging badasses.

    The Burning Blade orc clan may have had a sword as their icon, but they were also demon-fueled berserkers and are for the most part extinct.

    Trolls are equally Shamanistic as Orcs, this is true. But do you know who taught them Shamanism? The Orcs! Prior to the Orcs coming along, they had been into voodoo. Swords are still a violation of the style of Shamanism they have been taught, and the flavor/aesthetics Blizzard intends as a whole.

    It's silly, but swords for Shaman probably won't exist because swords for Shaman is an aesthetic violation. Like Paladins using daggers, because daggers are the weapons of the dishonorable. Or Mages and Warlocks not using Maces, because maces are a weapon predominantly associated with the priest and paladinhood.

  20. #80
    Can you stop trying to justify farfetched lore to back up why classes can't use every weapon. It's for the loot distribution for casters. Enh with swords means ele or resto can use all caster weapons.

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