View Poll Results: should shammys be allowed to use swords

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  • Yes, all shammys should

    85 34.41%
  • yes but only for enhan shammy

    40 16.19%
  • no

    122 49.39%
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  1. #81
    Banned ViridianWRA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxonn View Post
    Can you stop trying to justify farfetched lore to back up why classes can't use every weapon. It's for the loot distribution for casters. Enh with swords means ele or resto can use all caster weapons.
    I would have believe this if Vanilla wasn't a thing. Vanilla loot tables were insanity, pure and simple. Nowadays, that might be the explanation. But aesthetics and lore were clearly the beginning of this phenomenon at least.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I don't like the idea of swords for Shaman. They just don't fit the class IMO. Maces, Axes, and Daggers are good enough.

    Swords just seem too refined for the classes' style.
    Yep, of course, it is, according to Teriz design philosophy (just like every suggestions he makes on MMO-C), a better solution to let 8 specs compete for one caster mace in T14.

    Let me break it down

    elemental shaman
    resto shaman
    shadow priest
    disci priest
    holy priest
    holy paladin
    resto druid
    balance druid

    For this specs, the BiS weapon of this tier is the sha-touched mace of the Empress. Great design.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Thanks, but only the first bit was a correct change. The continue is correct because they already make agility swords. "it will not give us more" and "it will give us the same" are synonymous in this case.
    IF they actually do agility swords, it means they exclude us, hence giving swords to enh would mean "it will give us more" for certain. If they dont make swords, shamans are definately the reason. Sooo we will get more choices, assuming they do make swords and it will give us the same opions in that case as well.
    scratch the "not" in your sentence and you're actually making sense.

    Did you disregard every other part of my post that had answers to all of that?

    First, 'religious' classes, of which a Warriors is not, all follow an individual race's feelings and aesthetics on that 'religion'
    ...
    Warriors are a generalization. They are represented in every race, and no race really gives the ideal of a Warrior more than any other-- everyone has their weapon-swinging badasses.
    Every troll in zg worships the primal gods, more pecisely hakkar. So even a hakkari warrior, headhunter, assasin or whatever could be seen as religious, and therefor have his weapon choices justified as one and the same, ignoring classes.

    Religious classes worship deities and gods, not weapon types. There is no such thing as offending a shamans' ancestors or elemental spirits by weilding a sword. A priest cannot weild swords, but a paladin, who just as well gains power from the light, can. How do you explain that?
    Swords can be weilded by "evil" classes like dks, warlocks and rogues, but also by just paladins and monks or "neutral" mages and warriors. They cannot be weilded by neither shadow nor holy priests. So where exactly does a divine power actually distinguish between weapon types?

    The only reason why they could still justify keeping swords away from shamans would be caster weapon balance, which could be easily avoided by keeping them enhance only.
    Last edited by Omanley; 2013-02-05 at 06:44 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  4. #84
    First, 'religious' classes, of which a Warriors is not, all follow an individual race's feelings and aesthetics on that 'religion'

    Shaman == Orc (see: Ghost Wolf form)
    Druid == Night Elf
    Priest == Human/Dwarf
    Paladin == Human/Dwarf
    Monk == Pandaren

    Warriors are a generalization. They are represented in every race, and no race really gives the ideal of a Warrior more than any other-- everyone has their weapon-swinging badasses.
    If Blizzard does care about aesthetics and lore, they would'nt make offset pieces based on the tier sets that can be equipped by another classes. One another fact, that i don't understand why tier sets have class restrictions...

  5. #85
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    IF they actually do agility swords, it means they exclude us, hence giving swords to enh would mean "it will give us more" for certain. If they dont make swords, shamans are definately the reason. Sooo we will get more choices, assuming they do make swords and it will give us the same opions in that case as well.
    scratch the "not" in your sentence and you're actually making sense.
    Except rogues and monks aren't limited with the current weapon drops we see for slow agi. We will NOT have greater choice than them in that case. Getting the extra will make us the same. See how these are the same?

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Except rogues and monks aren't limited with the current weapon drops we see for slow agi. We will NOT have greater choice than them in that case. Getting the extra will make us the same. See how these are the same?
    It will give us more options as we have now.

    duh
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  7. #87
    I think the biggest limitation with giving Shamans swords is actually that it would mean caster Shamans would have access to caster swords as well, which would be unfair to other casters.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I think the biggest limitation with giving Shamans swords is actually that it would mean caster Shamans would have access to caster swords as well, which would be unfair to other casters.
    not true it can be a enhan only option.

  9. #89
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krunksmash View Post
    not true it can be a enhan only option.
    That would make it the only spec-specific weapon proficiency in the game. And it's not a problem to begin with.

  10. #90
    Legendary! Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That would make it the only spec-specific weapon proficiency in the game. And it's not a problem to begin with.
    In the game NOW. ENH USED to have spec specific..welll TALENT specific weapons.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That would make it the only spec-specific weapon proficiency in the game. And it's not a problem to begin with.
    It is when Blizzard gives blacksmiths the ability to craft 1 slow agility weapon and it is a sword . . . they gave Rogues axes so why is it a big deal to give just Enhancement Swords if people don't think swords are shaman like they can just not use swords or you know xmog it to a axe or a mace (5.2).
    Last edited by Zaizo; 2013-02-06 at 04:03 AM.

  12. #92
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaizo View Post
    It is when Blizzard gives blacksmiths the ability to craft 1 slow agility weapon and it is a sword . . . they gave Rogues axes so why is it a big deal to give just Enhancement Swords if people don't think swords are shaman like they can just not use swords or you know xmog it to a axe or a mace (5.2).
    The ONLY reason they gave axes to rogues was to improve itemization and weapon variety. There's no such issue right now, so there's no extant reason to add swords to Shaman, other than some Shaman thinking swords look cool.

    The weapon proficiency system serves a purpose.

  13. #93
    Banned ViridianWRA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    Every troll in zg worships the primal gods, more pecisely hakkar. So even a hakkari warrior, headhunter, assasin or whatever could be seen as religious, and therefor have his weapon choices justified as one and the same, ignoring classes.

    Religious classes worship deities and gods, not weapon types. There is no such thing as offending a shamans' ancestors or elemental spirits by weilding a sword. A priest cannot weild swords, but a paladin, who just as well gains power from the light, can. How do you explain that?
    Swords can be weilded by "evil" classes like dks, warlocks and rogues, but also by just paladins and monks or "neutral" mages and warriors. They cannot be weilded by neither shadow nor holy priests. So where exactly does a divine power actually distinguish between weapon types?

    The only reason why they could still justify keeping swords away from shamans would be caster weapon balance, which could be easily avoided by keeping them enhance only.
    You continue to miss my point.

    Of course they worshipped in ZG. It was a temple city. I'm talking about player classes.

    It's not about the worship of a weapon, it's about tendencies in the 'sect' represented by the player class and the traditions thereof.

    The Shaman class in WoW, regardless of race chosen, represents the Orc Shaman sec (See: Bloodlust, Feral Spirit, Ghost Wolf, Far Sight, Chain Lightning, etc). Orcs, traditionally, use axes. Therefore, regardless of shamanistic tendencies in other races, Shaman in WoW prefer Axes, Fists and Clubs (the more primal, brutish weapons) as a throwback to the Orc Shaman aesthetics.

    I'm not arguing for or against, but this is a valid explanation for why Shaman can't use swords. It's a matter of tradition and class identity.

    This isn't even a valid complaint, since the only raid Agi sword since T11 (exclusive) has been a trash drop.

    Consider it, if anything, a compliment, that your class has that sort of identity. Your class has history, aesthetic, and lore. Consider now Rogues, Warriors and Hunters that, due to their more general nature, have very little class identity (barring stealth, the wielding of weapons, and pets). There is no race or sect that particularly screams any one of those more than the other and has a developed enough aesthetic to base the class around.

    Shaman can't use swords because it offers identity.

  14. #94
    I don't think they should be able to. Maybe if there weren't any monks.

  15. #95
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    It will give us more options as we have now.

    duh
    great, i never said it didn't.

    @Validity I'll look forward to coming back to a game where every class can only use 1-2 weapons to give them an identity (Taking your argument past where you left it)
    Last edited by Raiju; 2013-02-06 at 06:08 PM.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    That would make it the only spec-specific weapon proficiency in the game. And it's not a problem to begin with.
    As sorrior pointed out, 2h maces/axes used to be enh specific. It is neither hard to implement nor is there any problem with it being the only spec specific proficiency in the game.

    The ONLY reason they gave axes to rogues was to improve itemization and weapon variety. There's no such issue right now, so there's no extant reason to add swords to Shaman, other than some Shaman thinking swords look cool.
    They gave axes to rogues so that they could make axes that didn't felt as a waste of itemisation space. Giving swords to shamans will accomplish something similar for agi swords, so it does serve more than cosmetic purposes (which include rogues/monks as well tbh, since it means more new moggable sword skins).
    If it didn't, people would just ask for the ability to mog into swords, rather than the ability to weild them.

    The weapon proficiency system serves a purpose.
    For casters, yes. For agi 1h users, no. Both rogues and monks can use everything enh can use, plus swords. If rogues hadn't axes still, and monks being unable to weild maces, then it would serve a purpose. The only purpose it serves now is to exclude enh from equal weapon options among loot rivals.
    I'm talking about player classes.
    So lore reasons actually are not about lore, but players? Makes perfect sense.
    Wow shamans are nothing more than a potpourri of spiritual WC3 units, such as shamans, witch doctors, shadow hunters, spirit walkers and far seers. Talk about lore.
    100% of lore is npc based, hence including zg trolls.
    So there aren't actually lore reasons at all.

    It's not about the worship of a weapon, it's about tendencies in the 'sect' represented by the player class and the traditions thereof.
    There is no "sect". Player classes are 100% made up of of players. Us. And we are obviously not all agreeing on those supposed tendencies. It's about blizzard implementing it or not, that is all. And for what unjustifiable reason they dont do it, doesn't matter either.

    The Shaman class in WoW, regardless of race chosen, represents the Orc Shaman
    Totems (Witch doctor wards), Spiritlink (Spiritwalker), Ethereal Form => Astral Shift (Spiritwalker), Healing Wave (Shadow Hunter), Serpent Ward = Searing Totem (Shadow Hunter), Hex (Shadow Hunter), Reincarnation (Tauren chieftain)
    Also... Spiritwalk, Spiritwalker's Grace
    none of these are orcish...
    Consider it, if anything, a compliment, that your class has that sort of identity. Your class has history, aesthetic, and lore.
    In lots of areas in wow, lore has lost its meaning. Rogues arent general, they are very specific in using stealthy weapons, which axes and maces are not. And daggers and staves are just as senseless for warriors btw. There is nothing complimenting being left out on something.
    Last edited by Omanley; 2013-02-06 at 06:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  17. #97
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by krunksmash View Post
    a weapon converting npc is actualy not a bad idea. maybe 1k per weapon for weapon 200 - 471, 2k for 472 - 483 and 4k for all 484 and above.

    Edit. the skin the weadon uses after being converted can be just a plane un-interesting skin
    Its called Transmogrification... look at the changes they are making in 5.2

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Notamonk View Post
    Its called Transmogrification... look at the changes they are making in 5.2
    trasmog woth work for weapons you can't use. I'm talking about actually changing the weapon onto a diffrent weapon class so that you can use it

  19. #99
    The Patient Vanchak's Avatar
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    Moaning that the only crafted agi weapon is a sword, what about 1h healer weapon, it's an axe, only paladins and SHAMANS can use it, literally just stop moaning, nothing is always going to be perfect for everyone, just get over it and go do some hcs till you get a fist/axe/mace or whatever, they're only 463 blues ffs

  20. #100
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanchak View Post
    Moaning that the only crafted agi weapon is a sword, what about 1h healer weapon, it's an axe, only paladins and SHAMANS can use it, literally just stop moaning, nothing is always going to be perfect for everyone, just get over it and go do some hcs till you get a fist/axe/mace or whatever, they're only 463 blues ffs
    this isn't 1 crafting weapon though, it's not an isolated incident. Almost everyone arguing against it acts as if it is every other tier that it happens.

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