Thread: The darkspear

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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scummer View Post
    I'd actually say the Trolls are getting some pretty substantial lore compared to other races. At the end of Wrath they had The Battle for the Echo Isles, Cataclysm introduced us to the Trolls new life of living on the outskirts of Durotar in their new reclaimed home which had been rebuilt coupled with Garrosh kicking the Trolls out and Vol'jin putting his foot down. Then we have their involvement with the Zandalari.

    Now we have Vol'jin getting stabbed in the back as he tries to watch Garrosh, the Trolls being betrayed by Garrosh and ordered to be exterminated. Vol'jin getting his own damn book. On top of all of this he being built up to play a major role in the Siege of Orgrimmar.

    If anything Trolls are getting some of the most lore of any race currently. Things have never been better for them.
    Well better for the Darkspear... slowly.

    It doesn't help that Vol'jin stood still while the assassin stabbed him in the face or that the rest of their race is lashing out senselessly when they could use help from other Races and getting themselves killed so y'know, mixed bag.
    Twas brillig

  2. #22
    The Darkspear are doomed to extinction, they are a withered tribe that does not find their place. The last hope for the Darkspear in particular, and for all the trolls as race in general were the Zandalari.

    The Zandalari were meant to absorb the Darkspear tribe and thus form a single faction of trolls united under the banner of the Horde. Zandalar should be Horde territory, Zuldazar as the grand troll capital, the King Rastakhan as their wise racial leader and Vol'jin as the new leader of the Horde and savior of the trolls of Azeroth.
    But Blizzard has missed that opportunity forever by destroying the Zandalari, and thus leaving the Darkspear dying...

    Think of it for a moment: all uncorrupted trolls united in one faction and fighting for the Horde, becoming an important hub for the Horde itself and for their own survival, with their powerful naval fleet, their domesticated dinosaurs and the natural reserve of Zandalar: the only one territory of Azeroth that remained undamaged after the Great Sundering thanks to the mystical troll magic...


  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    The Darkspear are doomed to extinction, they are a withered tribe that does not find their place.
    we're talking about the darkspear, not the high elves

    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    and the natural reserve of Zandalar: the only one territory of Azeroth that remained undamaged after the Great Sundering thanks to the mystical troll magic...
    according to lorewalker cho in 5.2: zandalar sunk in the ocean, that's why the zandalari began their quest for world domination.
    Last edited by checking facts; 2013-01-26 at 11:39 PM.
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  4. #24
    Stood in the Fire Zazajin's Avatar
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    I know people say Vol'jin will be Warchief, but I don't see him being Warchief as Darkspear Trolls are the smallest faction within the Horde. I do like the idea of Vol'jin taking the other troll tribes and becoming the new Khan, but it might be silly.

  5. #25
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    no, thrall took them and ran away from the darkspear island. the echo islands are different islands lol
    Dark spear islands, they were chased off by a Sea Witch and her murloc army and the human navy. They lived there after being kicked out of strangle thorn.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    the only one territory of Azeroth that remained undamaged after the Great Sundering thanks to the mystical troll magic...
    Troll magic is really underestimated.

    High elves stole the magical artifacts from the Amani Trolls, redesigned them slightly and presented them as their own.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
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  7. #27
    Scarab Lord Humbugged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Troll magic is really underestimated.

    High elves stole the magical artifacts from the Amani Trolls, redesigned them slightly and presented them as their own.
    Nothing but beekum-bokum and humbiyah. Troll magic is powerful, but primitive. They don't do anything substantial on their own, but rather summon gods to do it for them.
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  8. #28
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    according to lorewalker cho in 5.2: zandalar sunk in the ocean, that's why the zandalari began their quest for world domination.

    Which is really dumb, there's literally no reason the Zandalar couldn't have just piled into Kalimdor or the EK and shacked up with the Horde somewhere.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 06:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Nothing but beekum-bokum and humbiyah. Troll magic is powerful, but primitive. They don't do anything substantial on their own, but rather summon gods to do it for them.
    Which is different from Dwarves and humans having ingrained titan knowhow and getting power from the light how? It's not like you don't need to work at being a priest or shaman or whatever, even if what that entails is poorly explained .
    Twas brillig

  9. #29
    Scarab Lord Humbugged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Which is really dumb, there's literally no reason the Zandalar couldn't have just piled into Kalimdor or the EK and shacked up with the Horde somewhere.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-26 at 06:02 PM ----------



    Which is different from Dwarves and humans having ingrained titan knowhow and getting power from the light how? It's not like you don't need to work at being a priest or shaman or whatever, even if what that entails is poorly explained .
    I picture priests and shamans as just begging higher powers for aid. Sure you have to work to become a priest or Shaman, establish rapport with whichever being you swear allegiance to or whichever element you seek aid with, but holy priests are just asking the light for assistance ("Light grant me strength!")

    Anyways, yeah, troll magic is primitive. They aren't stupid, just prefer being tribal. Who knows? Maybe Zandalari Isle was a Rome-like metropolis with irrigation and fabricated housing, maybe it was a dump of sticks and mud. Whichever the case is, the trolls we've seen so far are your sterotypical "throw boiling heads into a pot" style magicians.
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  10. #30
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    I picture priests and shamans as just begging higher powers for aid. Sure you have to work to become a priest or Shaman, establish rapport with whichever being you swear allegiance to or whichever element you seek aid with, but holy priests are just asking the light for assistance ("Light grant me strength!")

    Anyways, yeah, troll magic is primitive. They aren't stupid, just prefer being tribal. Who knows? Maybe Zandalari Isle was a Rome-like metropolis with irrigation and fabricated housing, maybe it was a dump of sticks and mud. Whichever the case is, the trolls we've seen so far are your sterotypical "throw boiling heads into a pot" style magicians.


    1. That's a weird way of seeing it. If someone hands you the best weapon or tool for the job you still need to have some vague idea of how to use it.

    2. Judging by the fact that the Drakkari, which were ALWAYS described as the most primitive tribe, had a multi-tiered city with irrigation, I can't really see how you can picture Zandalar as being sticks and mud, particularly when Rastakhan's stated to have a gold throne. Have you seen the armor and ships they have?

    http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...postcount=2360

    http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...postcount=2365
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  11. #31
    Scarab Lord Humbugged's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    1. That's a weird way of seeing it. If someone hands you the best weapon or tool for the job you still need to have some vague idea of how to use it.

    2. Judging by the fact that the Drakkari, which were ALWAYS described as the most primitive tribe, had a multi-tiered city with irrigation, I can't really see how you can picture Zandalar as being sticks and mud, particularly when Rastakhan's stated to have a gold throne. Have you seen the armor and ships they have?

    http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...postcount=2360

    http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...postcount=2365
    They're like the Aztecs, IMO. Golden temples for the emperors, but still lived in huts of straw and sticks.
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  12. #32
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    They're like the Aztecs, IMO. Golden temples for the emperors, but still lived in huts of straw and sticks.
    ... What makes you think they lived in huts of straw and sticks? Jeez, you do know aztec cities were cleaner and larger than any european equivalent right?

    EDIT:

    Actually I misread, only Tenochtitlan was larger and cleaner, I don't have information on the others.

    But still, the idea that a society is 'worse' or 'more primitive' because of what they build out of is dumb. American settlers used Sod in places where there weren't enough trees :P
    Last edited by Skytotem; 2013-01-27 at 01:03 AM.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    ... What makes you think they lived in huts of straw and sticks? Jeez, you do know aztec cities were cleaner and larger than any european equivalent right?

    EDIT:

    Actually I misread, only Tenochtitlan was larger and cleaner, I don't have information on the others.

    But still, the idea that a society is 'worse' or 'more primitive' because of what they build out of is dumb. American settlers used Sod in places where there weren't enough trees :P

    This is what I imagine Zandalar to look like.



    Sure, its clean, sophisticated and advanced by troll standards. But its still primitive and in the jungle. Trolls are Resourceful, they make use of the jungle and build their homes with what the jungle provides them - sticks and mud. But the common Zandalari probably doesn't live in "Golden temples" and the likes.

    Edit: Rastakhan would live in a place like that. His people, the common Zandalari, would live in jungle huts we see scattered all across the world.
    Last edited by Humbugged; 2013-01-27 at 01:59 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manakin View Post
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Which tribe of trolls hold even the slightest amount of respect for us at this point? If they were smart they'd Allie amongst themselves against us, but they'd rather go down one by one. Why did they even include Vol'jin at the meeting in 4.1, they should know by now he and his heroes have destroyed the Drakkari, Amani, Zul'Farrak... Atal'Hakkar..
    The Zandalari trolls don't hold pointless grudges as the other past empires do. In fact, if they did the Drakkari would be banned for being too savage. The Zandalari are probably the most intelligent tribe of trolls having recorded ALL of the history, and since they see that the troll tribes are falling one by one to pointless conflicts, they are trying to unite them. Also the Darkspears at this point are known for being an extremely powerful tribe and their Shadowhunters are fairly well known as well (even though they were considered weak in their days under the Gurubashi empire).

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 02:08 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Northem View Post
    The Darkspear are doomed to extinction, they are a withered tribe that does not find their place. The last hope for the Darkspear in particular, and for all the trolls as race in general were the Zandalari.

    The Zandalari were meant to absorb the Darkspear tribe and thus form a single faction of trolls united under the banner of the Horde. Zandalar should be Horde territory, Zuldazar as the grand troll capital, the King Rastakhan as their wise racial leader and Vol'jin as the new leader of the Horde and savior of the trolls of Azeroth.
    But Blizzard has missed that opportunity forever by destroying the Zandalari, and thus leaving the Darkspear dying...

    Think of it for a moment: all uncorrupted trolls united in one faction and fighting for the Horde, becoming an important hub for the Horde itself and for their own survival, with their powerful naval fleet, their domesticated dinosaurs and the natural reserve of Zandalar: the only one territory of Azeroth that remained undamaged after the Great Sundering thanks to the mystical troll magic...
    They aren't. The Darkspear are arguably the best chance of survival for the trolls as they are the few that are willing to negotiate outside their race. In fact the Darkspear entrance into the Horde was one of the reasons the Shatterspear(?) and Raventusk joined the Horde. The Gurubashi, Amani, and Drakkari are mostly dick tribes that only want war and their survival without change would only ensure war between the newly created empire and everyone else.

  15. #35
    Stood in the Fire Zazajin's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Thrive, it'd be the best chance of the other trolls surviving...though time will tell what happens...I only hope they aren't wiped out fully.

  16. #36
    Mechagnome Deathpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrive View Post
    The Zandalari trolls don't hold pointless grudges as the other past empires do. In fact, if they did the Drakkari would be banned for being too savage. The Zandalari are probably the most intelligent tribe of trolls having recorded ALL of the history, and since they see that the troll tribes are falling one by one to pointless conflicts, they are trying to unite them. Also the Darkspears at this point are known for being an extremely powerful tribe and their Shadowhunters are fairly well known as well (even though they were considered weak in their days under the Gurubashi empire).

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 02:08 AM ----------



    They aren't. The Darkspear are arguably the best chance of survival for the trolls as they are the few that are willing to negotiate outside their race. In fact the Darkspear entrance into the Horde was one of the reasons the Shatterspear(?) and Raventusk joined the Horde. The Gurubashi, Amani, and Drakkari are mostly dick tribes that only want war and their survival without change would only ensure war between the newly created empire and everyone else.
    Wasn't the shatterspear pretty much wiped out by the night elvs in cata? Or are there other shatterspear settlements?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathpath View Post
    Wasn't the shatterspear pretty much wiped out by the night elvs in cata? Or are there other shatterspear settlements?
    the shatterspear will come back when we get dance studio. they'll be the main dance faction of the horde.
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  18. #38
    Since when did we actually wipe out any tribe? People said the Sandfury, Gurubashi, Amani etc were wiped out, yet we saw some of trem on Pandaria. I doubt Blizzard would ever go as far to wipe out any race to be honest.

    And about Zandalar, in the transcript of one of the new scenarios Taoshi mentions that the Zandalari are shipping reinforcements and dinosaurs from Zandalar and we need to cut that supply line in order to claim the Isle of Thunder, so it may not gone afterall. Though, it's just PTR and could change.

  19. #39
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    This is what I imagine Zandalar to look like.


    Sure, its clean, sophisticated and advanced by troll standards. But its still primitive and in the jungle. Trolls are Resourceful, they make use of the jungle and build their homes with what the jungle provides them - sticks and mud. But the common Zandalari probably doesn't live in "Golden temples" and the likes.

    Edit: Rastakhan would live in a place like that. His people, the common Zandalari, would live in jungle huts we see scattered all across the world.


    A few things I take issue with here.

    1. By troll standards. That's a very vague term, could you elaborate?

    2. So, the trolls should move out of the jungle because living there is inherently worse than living in the forest like humans or something...? What?

    3. You're really not historically informed if you think that's all people lived in.

    4. No actually, a lot of aztec and mayan people lived in stone and wood housing, and y'know a lot of American and European people lived in -literal- mud and grass houses. What you make your home out of is not a measure of sophistication or advancement.

    5. And most importantly... that picture is of ruins, not a lived-in city.


    I get the feeling you're one of the folks that thinks there were never any great early societies outside of Europe eh?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 10:30 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Khuzard View Post
    Since when did we actually wipe out any tribe? People said the Sandfury, Gurubashi, Amani etc were wiped out, yet we saw some of trem on Pandaria. I doubt Blizzard would ever go as far to wipe out any race to be honest.

    And about Zandalar, in the transcript of one of the new scenarios Taoshi mentions that the Zandalari are shipping reinforcements and dinosaurs from Zandalar and we need to cut that supply line in order to claim the Isle of Thunder, so it may not gone afterall. Though, it's just PTR and could change.
    1. Everyone's pretty sure the Shatterspear are dead because the Night Elves explicitly stated they were wiping them out in their questing to prevent them from ever striking at them again.

    2. Zandalar is 'sinking' according to some of the other dialogue, so it may not be gone yet but it's damaged to the point that they're actively looking for a new home.
    Twas brillig

  20. #40
    I am Murloc! The Fiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    They're like the Aztecs, IMO. Golden temples for the emperors, but still lived in huts of straw and sticks.
    Actually Aztecs lived in advanced houses of Stone and thatch and were probably more impressive than any Roman build house of the time.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 04:49 PM ----------

    Currently I'd like to see all trolls unite behind the Darkspear under the horde, because, let's face it, they have about Equal numbers to the High Elves right now.
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