4th spec and New models instead of new class and new race?

[Destil]

I haven't posted in this thread for a while, but I'll be honest about the DK spec.

If it is a ranged caster spec, it would be the most overpowered spec maybe out there.

Not having a Mana Pool and using Runes/Runic Power would just be..broken.

There's have to be another system added to it to make it work.

[Didactic]

I haven't posted in this thread for a while, but I'll be honest about the DK spec.

If it is a ranged caster spec, it would be the most overpowered spec maybe out there.

Not having a Mana Pool and using Runes/Runic Power would just be..broken.

There's have to be another system added to it to make it work.

Not really, mana is obsolete for anything but healers at present.

[Destil]

Not really, mana is obsolete for anything but healers at present.

Maybe making Runic Power like Mana for that spec would work then?

[Didactic]

Maybe making Runic Power like Mana for that spec would work then?

/shrugs. Why? Name one DPS spec that can actually 'run out' of mana if they do their rotation correctly.

[Destil]

/shrugs. Why? Name one DPS spec that can actually 'run out' of mana if they do their rotation correctly.

Can Demonology Warlocks? Mine's only like level 82 but I find him running out of mana and having to use Life Tap every bit of time.

[Didactic]

Can Demonology Warlocks? Mine's only like level 82 but I find him running out of mana and having to use Life Tap every bit of time.

Game isn't balanced around anything but max level. And because Life Tap exists, no, that doesn't count.

[Dakara]

It would be awsome, but as another poster(s) said, giving us all 4 specs would be similar to adding 3 additional classes (i.e. 9 new specs). For PvE, that will be easy, for PvP it will just be another nightmare in the quest for balance....

[Destil]

Game isn't balanced around anything but max level. And because Life Tap exists, no, that doesn't count.

Hm, alright, I stand corrected then.

Sorry. I have no max level character that use Mana. Only have my DK. :P

[Beefhamer]

I think we will get the new player models and that is all and allowing us to have multiple specs for all that each class has so 4 for druids and 3 for the rest allowing us to swap out to any spec we want giving us more to do with more gear farming. I do not think we are getting another class any time soon unless it's something no one has though of yet. All of the "new class" ideas are pretty much in game besides the cloth tank and I do not see that happening, if it were to you would have had monks in cloth.

I do not see a new race until after the BL expansion. As for 4 specs for all classes I don't think they want to go down that road since balancing is tough enough already.

[Teriz]

This happens in every raiding guild, it's not a matter of finding a new one. The fact is, there is a significant advantage in having players with an off-spec healer or tank set.

Okay, so giving a Rogue player the option to tank is a problem how exactly? Because a Raid Leader might want him to tank even if he isn't comfortable doing so? Again, I'm not seeing how this is a viable argument against giving pure DPS specs the OPTION to tank and/or heal.

No, it proved that Feral's tank and DPS components were irreconcilable and far easier to split up. That is all.

So is it or is it not true that a class with 4 specs can operate in the current WoW system of talents and glyphs?

How about we -evolve- towards the direction of limiting imbalance rather than tossing new factors in?

Because WoW is an ever-changing online game that charges people money each month to play it. People want WoW to change, not stay stagnant because a certain subgroup wants to play rock-paper-scissors with their characters.

So then, as I said, adding healer and tank specs to pure DPS classes would be a trivial waste of resources since a fraction of the playerbase would actually use them.

Well no, since again, if you're adding new DPS specs to the game you have to add new tanks and healers to offset them. In short, you spend the majority of the resources creating what most players play, which are DPS specs. Therefore its not a waste of resources. For example, with DKs and Monks, there are 3 DPS specs, 2 tanking specs, and 1 healing spec. The majority of specs between Monks and DKs are DPS specs.

For the record, I was against the introduction of Death knights -and- Monks.

I'm not surprised.

1. Good, I find it to be the correct one.
2. You mean like how adding hybrid specs to pure classes and adding yet more specs to balance would tick players off?
3. As I said, any new change has the potential to bring players back. It is not a justification for fourth specs.
4. No, I shouldn't. I don't want either new specs or new classes. BC worked just fine without having a new class.
5. You have no evidence to suggest that fourth specs would accomplish it more than just the abilities.
6. A multitude of reasons, one being that many of the pure classes suffer from poor delineating between specs and lack of spec identity.

1. Okay.
2. You'd have to prove that adding an additional healing or tanking spec would tick off pure players. When Warlocks were on the verge of getting a tanking spec, a LOT of Warlock players were pretty excited about it, and that was under the condition that Demonology DPS might get removed in the process.
3. I would argue that a 4th spec has more chance to bring back old players because a lot of the changes deal with older classes and concepts that WoW players have been talking about for years now. Shockadins and Shaman Tanking for example. I've been hearing Rogues talking about wanting to tank since I started WoW in 2005.
4. Well TBC added new races to the game, and we just added a new race AND class to MoP. So unless Blizzard breaks tradition, its going to be either or for the next expansion. Keep in mind though, TBC and Cataclysm without new classes were not any more balanced than the expansions that brought in new classes. Balance is a struggle no matter what is brought into the game. If people don't want change, I hear there's a private vanilla server out there to remember the good old days when the game was balanced (LoL!).
5. Actually I do, since new specs would have new abilities outside the realm of the existing specs. Its common sense really.
6. And one of the ways to best fix that issue is hybridization.

The 'others' can be satisfied with what I said, class revamps, new abilities, bringing back class quests, etc. Fourth specs are an additional problem masquerading as a compromise.

That really wasn't my point. My point was that one group wants something new for their class to do outside of their roles, while the other wants to preserve how their class already is. 4th spec satisfies both groups.

---------- Post added 2013-02-09 at 09:13 PM ----------

I think we will get the new player models and that is all and allowing us to have multiple specs for all that each class has so 4 for druids and 3 for the rest allowing us to swap out to any spec we want giving us more to do with more gear farming. I do not think we are getting another class any time soon unless it's something no one has though of yet. All of the "new class" ideas are pretty much in game besides the cloth tank and I do not see that happening, if it were to you would have had monks in cloth.

I do not see a new race until after the BL expansion. As for 4 specs for all classes I don't think they want to go down that road since balancing is tough enough already.

I don't believe that new player models are enough to carry an expansion. There's a reason why Blizzard adds new races and classes in each expansion. New races or classes is a huge deal, and adds new life to an aging game. Without either of those components, people may get bored with the game a lot faster than in previous expansions.

However, I don't know of 2 new races that could be added to the game at this point. A few people are pushing for Ogres, but beyond that there isn't much else out there.

Which is why I created this thread. Since we already got a new class and a new race, it could stand to reason that Blizzard may take a middle road and introduce 4th specs. Druids getting it first could have been merely a test run for larger implementation.

[velde046]

Anyone else think this? I really don't believe that Blizzard is going to introduce a new class and race so soon after the Pandas and the Monks.

The new models are on their way. But what about 4th spec? Some 4th spec concepts I liked;

.....
Anyway, new models and new specs over new races and a new class. What's your take?

Besides actually liking a new class more, I do believe that 4th spec won't happen.... They'd have to create new spells and animations, not only hjigh level, but starting from level 1 you should be able to play with new spec.
Besides that I do believe balancing is already a monster and a 4th spec for each class would only add to that. So my verdict is: unwanted and unlikely for 4th spec.

[Teriz]

Besides actually liking a new class more, I do believe that 4th spec won't happen.... They'd have to create new spells and animations, not only hjigh level, but starting from level 1 you should be able to play with new spec.
Besides that I do believe balancing is already a monster and a 4th spec for each class would only add to that. So my verdict is: unwanted and unlikely for 4th spec.

Well each spec wouldn't begin to get unique abilities until level 10. Also some of the new spec's abilities would already be in the game from existing specs.

That said, I would also prefer a new class instead of 4th specs.

[Jijek]

Things I want:

2handed Enh-style Shamans. - Could possible be a tank set

[Sarthan]

Anyone else think this? I really don't believe that Blizzard is going to introduce a new class and race so soon after the Pandas and the Monks.

The new models are on their way. But what about 4th spec? Some 4th spec concepts I liked;



Those weren't bad. Main issue would be that adding 10 additional specs is the equivalent of adding 3 new classes. I don't know if its harder to create specs or create classes though. Maybe someone knows?

Anyway, new models and new specs over new races and a new class. What's your take?

No, just no there will never be a 4th class because it would be super hard to balance

[lolalola]

[...]

- Warlocks were revitalized without having to resort to a 4th spec, there are a myriad of other ways.

[...]

Indeed, they were. Warlocks were previously borrowing heavily from each other. Their secondary resource of mana is still used, but other than that all the 3 specs have their own resource system. Instead of seeing a 4th spec, I rather see more unpopular classes (warlocks were unpopular before, and were one of the least popular classes) get more unique specs. I'm thinking primarily about the rogue here.

[lanerios]

This happens in every raiding guild, it's not a matter of finding a new one. The fact is, there is a significant advantage in having players with an off-spec healer or tank set.



No, it proved that Feral's tank and DPS components were irreconcilable and far easier to split up. That is all.



How about we -evolve- towards the direction of limiting imbalance rather than tossing new factors in?



So then, as I said, adding healer and tank specs to pure DPS classes would be a trivial waste of resources since a fraction of the playerbase would actually use them.

For the record, I was against the introduction of Death knights -and- Monks.



1. Good, I find it to be the correct one.
2. You mean like how adding hybrid specs to pure classes and adding yet more specs to balance would tick players off?
3. As I said, any new change has the potential to bring players back. It is not a justification for fourth specs.
4. No, I shouldn't. I don't want either new specs or new classes. BC worked just fine without having a new class.
5. You have no evidence to suggest that fourth specs would accomplish it more than just the abilities.
6. A multitude of reasons, one being that many of the pure classes suffer from poor delineating between specs and lack of spec identity.



The 'others' can be satisfied with what I said, class revamps, new abilities, bringing back class quests, etc. Fourth specs are an additional problem masquerading as a compromise.

stop deluding yourself. it does NOT happen innevery guild. seriously it's a pethetic argument. be assertive and stand up to people. ive been in enough hardcore raiding guilds where the playing rule was, guess it.... no? ok, to play WHAT YOU WANT. time to stop that sinking argument and come up with a new one.

[Teriz]

Things I want:

2handed Enh-style Shamans. - Could possible be a tank set

I'd have no problem with a 2h tanking spec. I think it would fit well with the Shaman style of lore.

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 01:50 PM ----------

stop deluding yourself. it does NOT happen innevery guild. seriously it's a pethetic argument. be assertive and stand up to people. ive been in enough hardcore raiding guilds where the playing rule was, guess it.... no? ok, to play WHAT YOU WANT. time to stop that sinking argument and come up with a new one.

Thank you. It really is hilarious that people use that excuse as a reason why pure classes shouldn't get the OPTION to have a tanking or healing spec. I rolled a Mage after getting my Shaman and Monk to 90, and the entire time, the only thing I kept saying to myself is that I wish I could heal or tank with this class. Granted, DPS was a lot of gun, but I couldn't help but wish I could preform a different role.

[Absintheminded]

Only thing I care about for DK's 4th spec is make it a tank. I liked Blood better for damage, and preferred tanking as Unholy. I played all 3 for damage and tanking, so all I really want is a slight return to flexibility. Make it shadowfrost, a mix between Frost and Shadow with passives for both DW and 2h. Just gimme my cake and lemme eat it, too.

[huth]

Can Demonology Warlocks? Mine's only like level 82 but I find him running out of mana and having to use Life Tap every bit of time.

Arcane Mages should manage their mana to some degree, but they are explicitly designed to do that. There's even a quote from a blue somewhere that other casters shouldn't have to care about their mana pool unless they mess up.

Then there are Hunters and Destrolocks. Really, it wouldn't be much of an issue, if at all.

[Rhamses]

Having a spell-casting plate spec would work out fine. Look at Elemental Shaman. They wear mail and can equip shields, but they're pretty far from the best caster in the game.

Death Knight and Paladin plate casters would be a pretty interesting dynamic, and a great way to divvy up all that INT plate armor.