View Poll Results: What do you think?

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  • Yeah, it makes sense.

    408 53.83%
  • Nah, it has to be a New Class!

    86 11.35%
  • Nah, it'll just be one or the other.

    141 18.60%
  • Nothing will be added in the next expansion.

    123 16.23%
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  1. #321
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    I would like it, however. Druids allready got 4. And Dks do need 4 right now as well. DD spec as blood must brought be back! Cause not only i can imagine blood beeing offensively and defensively by design, but it was a dd spec in wotlk for the whole seasion anyways. Stuff that bother dks against melees in a pvp environment is solved via the dd bloodspec. I think it works best for bgs, having a spec that generates hp and deals dmg and is good vs melee. Its just not so op as blood tank spec without a shield vs physical dmg and the high migitation. Think right now, blood tanks are extremely boring outside of pve and a raid only needs 2 tanks most of the time with maybe 1 blood dk. I think tank specs in general, just takes too much away from a class, as tank specs are hardly useful outside of pve tank roles and raids only need a few. So, yeah this should be fixed first before granting all classes another talenttree.
    Druids do have 4 specs, which is why I didn't give them another one.

    Also I gave Death Knights Runemaster or Rune. A spec that effectively turns them into a psuedo-caster;

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20003593

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 05:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    What do those two have to do with each other?
    Earth is the primary element in Shaman lore. That's what it has to do with it.

    Your second statement doesn't follow from your first. If earth would be the second, the third, or the fourth element one learns you could equally use this for your argument. Also, your first statement is entirely subjective.
    I've already listed all the Shaman abilities based on elements. Earth had the lowest amount of abilities by a decent margin.

  2. #322
    Stood in the Fire Management's Avatar
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    I wouldn't mind. However if something similar would ever be considered by blizz, which it probably never will, it would really be necessary to first tone every class/spec down a bit. As it is right now with the clusterfuck of abilities I wouldn't want to see more abilities.

    PS. I would rather see a battlemage that could DW and use 2h maces and stuff (would be awesome) instead of the time spec. Maybe even a combo of the two, because it does sound intriguing.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Earth is the primary element in Shaman lore. That's what it has to do with it.

    I've already listed all the Shaman abilities based on elements. Earth had the lowest amount of abilities by a decent margin.
    I'm not taking your word on things like this anymore would appreciate some credible sources.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  4. #324
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Management View Post
    I wouldn't mind. However if something similar would ever be considered by blizz, which it probably never will, it would really be necessary to first tone every class/spec down a bit. As it is right now with the clusterfuck of abilities I wouldn't want to see more abilities.

    PS. I would rather see a battlemage that could DW and use 2h maces and stuff (would be awesome) instead of the time spec. Maybe even a combo of the two, because it does sound intriguing.
    People ask for Battle Mages all the time. Don't they realize that Enhancement Shaman operate almost exactly how a Battle Mage would (especially one that Dual Wields)?

  5. #325
    Not every class should get a 4th spec. It just don't make sense, a healing mage, that's barftown.

    This is what they should add in:

    Shaman Tank
    Caster Pally, Monk and DK's anything else is a bit goofy. Though I would be okay with changing one of the rogue specs to a ranged, throwing based spec. And maybe making marksman a petless hunter spec. But otherwise things are going to be too similar to what is already out there

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    People ask for Battle Mages all the time.
    People also ask for Demon Hunters all the time. Your point? Right, you got none.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  7. #327
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    People also ask for Demon Hunters all the time. Your point?
    That its kind of strange to ask for since a spec already exists that does pretty much the same thing.

    And they ask for a spec. DH proponents want an entire class where they can dress up like Illidan and do Illidan stuff.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-01 at 07:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowJester View Post
    Not every class should get a 4th spec. It just don't make sense, a healing mage, that's barftown.

    This is what they should add in:

    Shaman Tank
    Caster Pally, Monk and DK's anything else is a bit goofy. Though I would be okay with changing one of the rogue specs to a ranged, throwing based spec. And maybe making marksman a petless hunter spec. But otherwise things are going to be too similar to what is already out there
    Wouldn't that be a bit imbalanced (and unfair) if half the classes have 4 specs and the other half doesn't?

  8. #328
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    OP was updated:

    [b]Death Knights: Rune
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20003593

    Druids: Already done.

    Hunters: Beast Master: Melee spec that emulates the Beast Master from WC3. Spec utilizes animal abilities and tactics while fighting. Possible tank spec. Marksmanship is revamped to become the petless Hunter spec. Warden, PotM, and Dark Ranger abilities should be incorporated where necessary. Old Beast Master spec is renamed Ranger.

    Mages: Time. Basically a healing/support spec that utilizes Time magic. It'll make Mages into a hybrid class.

    Monks: Cloudbreaker: Followers of Chi-Ji the Red Crane. A long range DPS spec utilizing Chi abilities. Think Street Fighter fireballs and energy attacks. They would use INT leather and operate similar to Mistweavers, just with damage instead of heals. Enhances the Transcendence ability to make it easier to move in and out of melee range.

    Paladins: Crusader. Basically a DPS spec that does long range holy damage. (Shockadins) INT plate.

    Priests: Inquisitor. A priest that punishes sinners and hertics with a mixture of holy magic and Shadow Magic. Ranged DPS spec.

    Rogues: Stalker. Rogue tanking class that uses shadow abilities. Rogues need something other than another melee DPS spec.

    Shaman: Earth Warden. Shaman 2H or 1h+Shield tanking spec that uses the Earth element.

    Warlock: Demon Hunters. DPS or Tank melee spec.

    Warriors: Blade Master. Wind Walk, Mirror Image, and Endurance Aura. Also has the ability to carry the war banner on its back just like Blademasters from WC3.

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That its kind of strange to ask for since a spec already exists that does pretty much the same thing.
    You don't get my point, do you?

    https://www.google.de/search?q=SOME+PEOPLE+SAY

    My point is what you are saying "people want X!" is entirely heresay, just like my statement is as well. They are bullshit arguments.

    People want to be millionairs as well. But who gives a shit about them?

    What matters is the context around it: why do they want X, is the need for X valid, and all that. You need to do market research for that, and your statement just don't have that.

    I'm all for someone who's coming up with ideas of new implementations but you are so incredibly stubborn and mind numbing in your arguments that you're just there to make others eat your viewpoint, backing it up with global, meaningless statements like the one I quoted.

    So next time you use this technique (which you can read more about above, since I assume you're American you must've heard of Fox News) be prepared to be not taken seriously and be prepared to be called on using it. All it does is it lowers your credibility and polarizes the discussion.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  10. #330
    Stood in the Fire Management's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    People ask for Battle Mages all the time. Don't they realize that Enhancement Shaman operate almost exactly how a Battle Mage would (especially one that Dual Wields)?
    Ye I get that. But it doesn't have to be an enhancement shaman. Just make it so they use arcane instead of fire/ice, I get the feeling we don't have enough arcane mages anyways.

  11. #331
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Management View Post
    Ye I get that. But it doesn't have to be an enhancement shaman. Just make it so they use arcane instead of fire/ice, I get the feeling we don't have enough arcane mages anyways.
    That could be cool. Like using arcane magic to create shields to increase armor, and/or construct melee weapons out of arcane energy?

    I wouldn't mind doing a write up about that. Sounds like an interesting challenge.

  12. #332
    yeah would b awesome
    Think for yourself.

  13. #333
    Stood in the Fire Confucius's Avatar
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    warlock, a cloth wearing melee tank? That aint ever gonna happen. And tanking with a minion is meh. It's like being a proxy healer. Plus they'd have to figure out how to move the minion properly which in itself is just too much of a pain.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    1. The majority of Demon Hunter's abilities being farmed out to other classes isn't an opinion.
    2. Demon Hunters having a narrow class archetype isn't an opinion.
    3. DHs being traditionally a class that wears little to no armor isn't an opinion.
    4. The majority of DH proponents want to play and look like the DH from WC3 (Illidan) isn't an opinion.

    And none of those points were rebutted.
    You went back on point 4 yourself when you proposed a 4th spec for Warlocks, which excludes Night Elves and completely refutes the idea that people want to play as a DH that looks like Illidan.

  15. #335
    Dreadlord Elapo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Imo, WoW went too far on cosmetic path, add on top of this constant pressure from specific portion of playerbase who wants better graphics (and who seems to have no clue on some of the reasons why GW 2 and same FF XIV aren't so popular). We got lot of things with little substance (tons of mounts, pets, pet battles, transmog, soon - new models), things which are quite irrelevant to gameplay, meanwhile actual gameplay suffers to no end.

    4th spec simply won't have any substance as well, because it won't be really interesting idea due to constant tiresome buffs and nerfs going around. And current specs had their substance watered-down during the years. Totems, auras, etc. were thrown out of the window to get replaced by cd-based ramp-up combat and crappy mechanics like vengeance, rogue-like combo points, etc. Give former depth to current specs, then we can talk about 4th, 5th, whatever.

    6 new MoP 5-men and endgame based on dailies - they point on heavy lack of actual game's substance.
    The thing is - The people that make new models and improve the graphics aren't the ones who design the classes, nor the ones that design encounters. They can work on new models while class designers work on new specs (which has to be done BEFORE new animations/spell effects can be made) and while the rest designs content. There's also a difference between character designers and world designers.

    Updating world graphics will hurt new content, but new character models will not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Adding a fourth spec and new models is vastly more work than adding a new race and a new class.

    Instead of creating 2 new models, you have to create 16, and instead of balancing three new specs you have to balance 11 new specs.
    Don't underestimate making a new race/class. A new race requires all new animations (and maybe the new class too, like the kicks and roll for monk), new voices, ect... a new class requires all new spells (a new spec inherits a bunch of spells from the main class), spell animations to go with them, ect...
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  16. #336
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confucius View Post
    warlock, a cloth wearing melee tank? That aint ever gonna happen. And tanking with a minion is meh. It's like being a proxy healer. Plus they'd have to figure out how to move the minion properly which in itself is just too much of a pain.
    Warlocks were almost a cloth-wearing tank with a minion in MoP. All the mechanics were in place. It was Blizzard themselves who decided to put a stop to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn
    You went back on point 4 yourself when you proposed a 4th spec for Warlocks, which excludes Night Elves and completely refutes the idea that people want to play as a DH that looks like Illidan.
    No I didn't. When I was talking about the reasons why DHs shouldn't be a class, number 4 was one of the reasons. In the case of a spec, Blizzard could just allow Night Elves to be Warlocks to capitalize on a Demon Hunter spec's potential popularity.

  17. #337
    Stood in the Fire Confucius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Warlocks were almost a cloth-wearing tank with a minion in MoP. All the mechanics were in place. It was Blizzard themselves who decided to put a stop to it.
    because they realized it just cant work. Not being a proper tank, not being a proper dps. With minion tanking encounters must be designed around minion tanks and that just doesnt make fun bosses.

  18. #338
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confucius View Post
    because they realized it just cant work. Not being a proper tank, not being a proper dps. With minion tanking encounters must be designed around minion tanks and that just doesnt make fun bosses.
    Well it did work. Several Warlocks were tanking effectively in MoP beta and early MoP before Blizzard nerfed DA into the ground because it was overpowered. There's entire threads which talk about this. Again, it was completely Blizzard's decision, not any mechanical issues with the concept itself, but mostly because Blizzard didn't want a glyph to be considered a legitimate tanking spec in the game.

    Which is why 4th spec is such a great idea. With 4th spec, Blizzard can turn DA into the tanking spec it should have been in the first place and make Warlocks who want to tank very happy.

  19. #339
    As much as I'd like to see it, Blizzard probably won't do it. There is just too much work for them to do with balancing and all that stuff along the lines. Balancing a new class from scratch is (pure speculation here) easier than balancing a whole load of new specs.

    Although, I think it might even be worth the trouble. People who have quit the game might come back an give their main class a shot again. Adding new races/classes has barely attracted anyone I know yet. Most quitters I know just didn't care for monks/pandas at all (doesn't have anything with the class/race to do, just the fact there is hardly anything new for them). Now imagine adding a new spec to each class, that would probably get people excited again and get them back. Who knows though...

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Confucius View Post
    because they realized it just cant work. Not being a proper tank, not being a proper dps. With minion tanking encounters must be designed around minion tanks and that just doesnt make fun bosses.
    no. the reason GC said DA couldn't be a proper tank is because blizzard doesn't want you to just "swap a glyph and tank".

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    To make warlocks an actual tank would take more significant changes. For example, we want tanks to have to pick up separate tanking gear than their DPS gear (this is even true of druids) and want tanks to have to give up some of their DPS potential in exchange for their survivability. In short, it needs to be a commitment, and that's the sort of thing that needs larger gameplay changes than just a glyph.
    the original forum source page was deleted along with the whole of the MoP beta battle.net forum, but you can see a transcrypt of it on WoW insider:http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/03/26/today-in-wow/
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