4th spec and New models instead of new class and new race?

[Teriz]

The reason is that that one thing(pet) often makes the class less fun. So removing something that isnt fun makes it more fun.

Hunters IMO are close to where Warlocks were in Cataclysm where their specs were very similar to each other. I believe that Hunters are heading for a complete overhaul in an upcoming expansion.

---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 12:34 PM ----------

I think Blizzard would like to reduce the number of specs in the game, not increase them.

I have never seen Blizzard express any indication that they are overworked or fatigued in regards to the number of specs or classes in the game. In fact Blizzard constantly says that they intend to add new classes to the game in the future.

[Muadiib]

I think the "adding a fourth spec for every class and so Druids get nothing" idea is awful honestly. Giving us a fourth spec was a stealth nerf to our versatility of yesteryear and certainly not something that any of us asked for. Give me something in the expansion that was as awesome as the quest chain to receive epic flight form (and the form itself obviously), several more epic quest chains for all major milestones and forms (why oh why did they remove class quests?!) and some awesome endgame class and/or race specific content and then I will get excited for this game again, nothing more nothing less.

This is a selfish demand I know, but I just had to at least put it out there what this dejected Druid is thinking.

[Teriz]

I think the "adding a fourth spec for every class and so Druids get nothing" idea is awful honestly. Giving us a fourth spec was a stealth nerf to our versatility of yesteryear and certainly not something that any of us asked for. Give me something in the expansion that was as awesome as the quest chain to receive epic flight form (and the form itself obviously), several more epic quest chains for all major milestones and forms (why oh why did they remove class quests?!) and some awesome endgame class and/or race specific content and then I will get excited for this game again, nothing more nothing less.

This is a selfish demand I know, but I just had to at least put it out there what this dejected Druid is thinking.

Well that has less to do with 4th spec and more to do with what Blizzard has done to the class in the last few expansions. I personally think Druids have a lot more versatility than they ever had before. In older WoW your forms were a lot more locked in. Now they're a lot more fluid and usable across specs.

As for Druids not getting a 4th spec if this were ever to come to pass, I don't think that's a big deal. Most Druids would understand the situation. As long as Druids get something shiny and new for the new expansion, there shouldn't be an issue.

[Muadiib]

We can't hybridise as much imo, If we get something shiny then yeah I would be cool. Personally I'd rather they give us either a new hero class next expansion or the ability to turn all current classes into hero classes with epic quest chains to bridge the transition, that won't happen I know, but one can dream...

[Frozenbeef]

Nothing will be added in the next expansion.

That just reaks of joy and enthusiasm :S

[dgreen]

There would be an insane amount of balance problems if you gave every class another spec. Do the math, 1 spec for all the classes takes more balancing than one class with 3 new specs.

That being said, I don't think we should have either. If anything I'd rather have new models or races that really don't affect the game.

[Teriz]

There would be an insane amount of balance problems if you gave every class another spec. Do the math, 1 spec for all the classes takes more balancing than one class with 3 new specs.

That being said, I don't think we should have either. If anything I'd rather have new models or races that really don't affect the game.

If I had a nickel for everyone who complains about balance in every thread regarding anything new in WoW, I could probably buy Blizzard.

In any case, Blizzard resets the classes each expansion anyway, whether there is a new class or isn't one. The reason for this reset is that Blizzard constantly reshuffles the classes to make them better or at least better for the current expansion. It's also a way to keep things fresh and interesting. Each class in WoW plays entirely different than it did in Vanilla. So the dream that everything should stay the same for the sake of balance is exactly that.

---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 06:44 PM ----------

We can't hybridise as much imo, If we get something shiny then yeah I would be cool. Personally I'd rather they give us either a new hero class next expansion or the ability to turn all current classes into hero classes with epic quest chains to bridge the transition, that won't happen I know, but one can dream...

Hero classes for each class is an interesting idea. The only issue I have with it is that Blizzard would have to make 11 new classes, and that IS a lot of work. Also everyone would be gunning for the hero classes and view the old classes as weak or boring next to the shiny new hero classes. That exact thing is what destroyed Ragnarok Online. Everyone guns for max level just to become the hero classes, and balance in the game is a complete bust.

Just not worth it IMO.

[Drakesong]

I think some classes already deserve a 4th spec, in a way similar to druids.
Paladin ranged dps, Warlock tanks, Shaman tanks, Hunters pet tanking and MAYBE Rogue tank would be very good to the game.

[Absintheminded]

Changing the role of a spec is a potential source of major drama. Combat rogues are probably the most likely tanks, if they stopped combat being a viable DPS spec and into a tanking one the rogue 'community' would likely go apeshit.

And this didn't happen to each and every DK spec? Seriously no class would get bent over as hard as DK's had, especially if classes are getting an *additional* spec. Ape-shit. Pfft. Gimme my DW tank and Unholy pet-less tank back.

There would be an insane amount of balance problems if you gave every class another spec. Do the math, 1 spec for all the classes takes more balancing than one class with 3 new specs.

That being said, I don't think we should have either. If anything I'd rather have new models or races that really don't affect the game.

I won't bother doing that math, because that math is flawed to begin with 1 spec for an existing class does not equal 1 spec for a brand new class. Been mentioned before, but people keep making this awful analogy. I daresay 1 new class is comparable to the amount of work it takes for 4th specs, if not more. All of the base work is there, the foundation exists. Come up with a few passives, less then a dozen abilities, and you have yourself a spec.

[Teriz]

I won't bother doing that math, because that math is flawed to begin with 1 spec for an existing class does not equal 1 spec for a brand new class. Been mentioned before, but people keep making this awful analogy. I daresay 1 new class is comparable to the amount of work it takes for 4th specs, if not more. All of the base work is there, the foundation exists. Come up with a few passives, less then a dozen abilities, and you have yourself a spec.

Pretty much this. Not to mention that Blizzard would have to build an entirely new talent tree and glyphs for the new class. It just isn't the same amount of work.

[Potassiumgluconate]

Death Knights: Necromancer or Rune
Rune Concept: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20003593

Druids: Already done.

Hunters: Ranger: Healing spec. Marksmanship is revamped to become the petless Hunter spec. Warden, PotM, and Dark Ranger abilities should be incorporated where necessary.

Mages: Time. Basically a healing/support spec that utilizes Time magic. It'll make Mages into a hybrid class. or Blood. A Mage spec that uses his life force to harness the power of the phoenix.

Monks: Cloudbreaker: Followers of Chi-Ji the Red Crane. A long range DPS spec utilizing Chi abilities. Think Street Fighter fireballs and energy attacks. They would use INT leather and operate similar to Mistweavers, just with damage instead of heals. Enhances the Transcendence ability to make it easier to move in and out of melee range.

Paladins: Crusader. Basically a DPS spec that does long range holy damage. (Shockadins) INT plate.

Priests: Inquisitor. A priest that punishes sinners and hertics with a mixture of holy magic and Shadow Magic. Ranged DPS spec. od Psion, a spellcaster that manipulates opponents with its mind.

Rogues: Stalker. Rogue tanking class that uses shadow abilities. Rogues need something other than another melee DPS spec.

Shaman: Earth Warden. Shaman 2H or 1h+Shield tanking spec that uses the Earth element.

Warlock: Demon Hunters. DPS or Tank melee spec.

Warriors: Blade Master. Wind Walk, Mirror Image, and Endurance Aura. Also has the ability to carry the war banner on its back just like Blademasters from WC3.

The first time I saw this thread, I rolled my eyes, voted that nothing will happen, and moved on.

But after seeing the revision with all the concepts, I love it.

Making every class into a hybrid of some kind actually seems pretty brilliant come to think of it. It would give anyone who "only heals" or "only tanks", more options. It introduces class concepts people have always wanted without needing to create gear and introduce lore-reasons for why certain classes+races exist (see the Death Knight and Monk problems).

Priest Inquisitors could be the melee cloth people have talked about wanting. Rogue tanks already exist (if I had a nickle every time I was in a dungeon and the tank died and a rogue took over...), Warlock tanking already exists, I've done it. "Shockadins" need to come back, and Hunters are in desperate need of diversification. Shaman tanking should also make a comeback - it's been sorely missed.

The only ones that seem a little shaky is the Mage and Warrior ones. Chromatic/Temporal/Time Mages are getting more help lorewise. Ever since the first couple of time spells, Blizzard has even put bits of lore into the game suggesting that mages are meddling with time. Makes sense they would do more with it, but how would their healing work? Maybe introduce time itself into the mechanics so they can only "undo" damage? Perhaps they'd never have to worry about overhealing, but pre-emptive heals would be weak at best?

The only reason why I think Blade Master is a bit weak is because I'm not sure what kind it would be. Another tanking spec or another DPS spec? Been awhile since Blizzard has experimented with having multiple tank specs in a class... but maybe there's a reason why they don't want to.


All in all though... unfortunately I doubt blizzard would do this. From their point of view they'd probably try to claim it'd be like making 4 classes at once. Not realizing how much they can re-use and cannibalize to make their work easier.

[Teriz]

The first time I saw this thread, I rolled my eyes, voted that nothing will happen, and moved on.

But after seeing the revision with all the concepts, I love it.

Making every class into a hybrid of some kind actually seems pretty brilliant come to think of it. It would give anyone who "only heals" or "only tanks", more options. It introduces class concepts people have always wanted without needing to create gear and introduce lore-reasons for why certain classes+races exist (see the Death Knight and Monk problems).

Priest Inquisitors could be the melee cloth people have talked about wanting. Rogue tanks already exist (if I had a nickle every time I was in a dungeon and the tank died and a rogue took over...), Warlock tanking already exists, I've done it. "Shockadins" need to come back, and Hunters are in desperate need of diversification. Shaman tanking should also make a comeback - it's been sorely missed.

The only ones that seem a little shaky is the Mage and Warrior ones. Chromatic/Temporal/Time Mages are getting more help lorewise. Ever since the first couple of time spells, Blizzard has even put bits of lore into the game suggesting that mages are meddling with time. Makes sense they would do more with it, but how would their healing work? Maybe introduce time itself into the mechanics so they can only "undo" damage? Perhaps they'd never have to worry about overhealing, but pre-emptive heals would be weak at best?

The only reason why I think Blade Master is a bit weak is because I'm not sure what kind it would be. Another tanking spec or another DPS spec? Been awhile since Blizzard has experimented with having multiple tank specs in a class... but maybe there's a reason why they don't want to.

I think BM spec would be better served as a DPS spec. I think we have enough tank classes as is. I also think that warriors would appreciate a new kind of DPS than what they're used to.

As for the "Chrono-Mages" quite a few ideas came to me over the course of this thread;

1. Temporal Shield: Obviously make it a core healing spell for this spec. Allowing the mage to cast it on other players.
2. Stagger: Basically either a single target or AoE ability that acts the way stagger does with Monks. This spell would take the direct damage that a target receives and space it out over 5-10 seconds as a DoT, making it easier to heal.
3. Slow Time: This ability was taken from Wizards in D3; Basically create a bubble where enemies or projectiles are slowed to the point where they are easily doodged by the mage and its allies. You could even speed up your allies while they're in the bubble.

There were some others, but those were the main ones. It would definitely take some mental ingenuity on Blizzard's part.

All in all though... unfortunately I doubt blizzard would do this. From their point of view they'd probably try to claim it'd be like making 4 classes at once. Not realizing how much they can re-use and cannibalize to make their work easier.

You're probably right unfortunately. I really wonder what they're going to do for the next expansion. They've already added a race and a class. It would be interesting if they did that again. However, I really feel that Monks need some time to come into their own. Another class would really overshadow them. Especially if its a hero class.

[Rhamses]

Time magic would be an interesting way to do healing, but I don't know if it could be stretched far enough to make a healing class out of it. Also time is such a powerful type of magic that mages who use it might become overpowered. Despite that, I think it has the best bet to be a Mage 4th spec.

[Teriz]

Time magic would be an interesting way to do healing, but I don't know if it could be stretched far enough to make a healing class out of it. Also time is such a powerful type of magic that mages who use it might become overpowered. Despite that, I think it has the best bet to be a Mage 4th spec.

Agreed, it could be very difficult, but its still possible to pull off, you just have to be a bit imaginative about it. Teleports, DoTs/HoTs, slowing wounds, winding back time to resurrect someone? All of that can be used to create an interesting healing style we haven't seen before.

Anyway, we'll see soon enough whether Blizzard goes this route or not. I'm very interested to see what they have planned for the next expansion.

[Boggle]

They won't add this many specs, they are struggling to balance the game as it is.

[Deleted]

Why do people want a 4th spec? If anything, the trend shows that they are trying to move away from complicating the classes further.

Imho, they should do something similar to Path of Exile and just offer every class a massive tree of skills that branches out in different directions.

For each level, you should be able to place a point somewhere in the tree, provided you've 'climbed' to that branch already.

[Teriz]

They won't add this many specs, they are struggling to balance the game as it is.

Do you have any posts from Blizzard stating that they are struggling to balance the game?

Or is that just your personal opinion?

---------- Post added 2013-03-16 at 10:02 PM ----------

Why do people want a 4th spec? If anything, the trend shows that they are trying to move away from complicating the classes further.

They definitely don't want to make the classes overly complex and overwhelming to newcomers, but I don't think that has anything to do with 4th specs. If anything, adding 4th specs would add more diversity to the existing classes, give people a reason to try classes that may have no appealed to them in the past, and have the opportunity to see more favorites like Demon Hunters and Blademasters as 4th specs instead of entirely new classes.

[Rhamses]

I gotta say, after GC's twitter yesterday, and the thread about class models versus a new race, this is looking more and more feasible. I was also surprised by the sheer amount of threads in other forums involving this. Looks like the OP was ahead of the curve.

[Cwimge]

See "demon hunter" under warlock. Abandon thread as worthless

[Slirith]

i'd like to see it but well i know blizzard is lazy so im guessing it wont happen since you would have to rebalance and revamp most of the classes to prevent unbalance

totally agree with this