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  1. #1

    Insanity vd FDCL vs Mindbender - Shadow PVE

    What does these changes mean to us? I think it will be hard to say how this will affect our damage without some proper PTR testing and someone doing the math. Even tho i gotta admit, the very minor buff the Dp change will give us, i want more. Im currently lvling a lock, ready to abandon Spirest that i have played since early TBC due to the massive dissapointment when they released Patchnotes and Tier15 sets. Worst Tier since t4, And me whom tought this tier was bad. We are basicly the only class without a direct damage increase on the Set bonus, and will be all about dat RNG. I hate this, what do you fellow priests think?

  2. #2
    Agreed, however instead of changing everything with class type I have choose to get both the Moonkin and Elemental uptodate

  3. #3
    Personally I've never liked mind-bender its damage has always been underwhelming for me, that being said FDCL can result in loss of procs and a fairly bland play style with a lower skill cap due to RNG; Not to mention on add fight where we can multidot we spend more globals spiking then doing other things, such as dot management, sear and w/e else needs to be done. I've done some testing on the PTR with Insanity and I for one prefer it, not only does it give us a reliable amount of damage vs. single target but it raises the skill-cap of shadowpriests and puts a higher emphasis on dot management. If we want to talk about T15 talents if we choose insanity our tier bonus's synergy with this talent is phenomenal and we couldn't ask for better, that being said vs. single target on the PTR using 3 orb dp and insanity i was showing a 65% damage increase over FDCL at a 15% proc rate using all pocs correctly and a 27-31% damage increase over FDCL at a 20% proc rate. Now I'd like someone from the Spriest community to run these numbers better then I can or care to do but I for one like this talent and these tier bonus's for this talent.
    Last edited by koss; 2013-01-20 at 09:50 PM.

  4. #4
    Insanity blows away everything on single target. FDCL will continue to be the best for multi-dot. Mindbender is kind of going to get lost between the two and only get used on heavy aoe or atypical fights like Tsulong where things like mana and globals are at a premium.

  5. #5
    mindbender will also be good for mindsear-heavy fights

  6. #6
    Grunt Rubbaducky's Avatar
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    I think it's brilliant. If only they could make Power Infusion a bit more worth it to take, we'd be mixing and matching between all 3 of our 30, 75 and 90 talents on a per fight basis. I can't think of any other class that has their talents in such a balanced state as ours.

    Definitely happy we're getting an oomph to our single target via Insanity.

  7. #7
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    1 Shadow Orb DP with Insanity here we come!

    Just kidding

  8. #8
    Field Marshal Alidie's Avatar
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    If they'd make SW:I a passive that happens whenever u have your dots up instead of an extra button, (correct me if im wrong my memory might not be top notch) fine with me, but wont it be too low uptime on it VS possible MS proccs??

    and does these changes mean SW:I is the best choice for single target fights without movement (and with movement too).. uh yeah if anyone got some data, would love to know ;P

    i dont like these changes at all, it felt good to have a useless spell so i wouldn't ever have to think about what to use ;p yet i got to stick to my silly priest because our raid team needs it. bleh
    Last edited by Alidie; 2013-01-21 at 12:48 AM.

  9. #9
    and does these changes mean SW:I is the best choice for single target fights without movement (and with movement too).. uh yeah if anyone got some data, would love to know ;P
    By blizzards design all 3 should be equally to the same dps unless varying factors occur like movement.

    So in the end just pick your poison.

  10. #10
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    By blizzards design all 3 should be equally to the same dps unless varying factors occur like movement.

    So in the end just pick your poison.
    No no, they want them all to be different - even better on certain types of fights is perfectly fine - they just don't want one talent to be so massively better at any given time that there is a 'right answer' like there was with the old talent trees.
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  11. #11
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    No no, they want them all to be different - even better on certain types of fights is perfectly fine - they just don't want one talent to be so massively better at any given time that there is a 'right answer' like there was with the old talent trees.
    Well now there is a "right answer" for every fight, granted most talents are pretty close.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    No no, they want them all to be different - even better on certain types of fights is perfectly fine - they just don't want one talent to be so massively better at any given time that there is a 'right answer' like there was with the old talent trees.
    unless varying factors occur like movement.
    I gave a small, broad example but I know what you mean.

  13. #13
    Dreadlord veiledy0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koss View Post
    vs. single target on the PTR using 3 orb dp and insanity i was showing a 65% damage increase over FDCL at a 15% proc rate using all pocs correctly and a 27-31% damage increase over FDCL at a 20% proc rate. Now I'd like someone from the Spriest community to run these numbers better then I can or care to do but I for one like this talent and these tier bonus's for this talent.
    Care to elaborate a bit more on this, 'cause I still seem to be doing cca 5k more DPS on single target with FDCL, than I do with 3orb DP Insanity? Especially if my trinket/s aligned with a lot of FDCL procs, my DPS would skyrocket to 80ish+ k or so, while with Insanity I was unable to surpass 76k, even during both trinkets + engi gloves up.

    Do note that the testing I did was purely intended for the comparison of these 2 talents and therefore I wasn't using neither SFiend nor any of the T6 talents, 'cause there is no Dummy that is singled out in order for Halo to hit no more than 1target.

    I'm a few items away from full T14 BiS gear (same gear I have on live) and was using the usual 8085 Haste > Crit > Haste > Mastery reforge. I was using DI during both testings. As for the spell priority I was placing Insanity MF in between SW:P an VT, basically meaning if VT would be falling off, I'd still let it do a full channel, and would only interrupt it for a MB or to refresh SW:P. I do have 250ish MS on the PTR, so I may not be clipping Insanity MF so well, but still the difference seemed to big.
    Last edited by veiledy0; 2013-01-21 at 02:50 AM.
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  14. #14
    I've been getting much better results doing a 1 orb DP rotation using insanity.

    Are you seeing MF;I as having ticks? Because i have yet to and i know that is hindering my dps with it.

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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    Care to elaborate a bit more on this, 'cause I still seem to be doing cca 5k more DPS on single target with FDCL, than I do with 3orb DP Insanity?
    I'm a few items away from full T14 BiS gear (same gear I have on live) and was using the usual 8085 Haste > Crit > Haste > Mastery reforge. I was using DI during both testings. As for the spell priority I was placing Insanity MF in between SW:P an VT, basically meaning if VT would be falling off, I'd still let it do a full channel, and would only interrupt it for a MB or to refresh SW:P. I do have 250ish MS on the PTR, so I may not be clipping Insanity MF so well, but still the difference seemed to big.
    The only problem I see in your rotation then is your dot management, we need to modify our rotation around SW:I, which means getting in 3 full channels for maximum benefit, example we normally have MB as our top priority except during executes when we have SWD, once you have your 3 dots up you commit to 3 full channels to get your maximum dps out of this talent and ignore MB during this time (call me crazy but try it). non raid buffed in my 502 was 499 when i PTR'd my priest i was pulling 78-81k (no Sfiend and 1 target halo) depending on how I adjusted my dots refresh times; for maximum SW:I up time.

    Also if you are doing DPx1 don't its a massive dps loss
    Side note I run under 50ms and use the CLT setting which might be why I get better results, hope this helps

  16. #16
    you can use the argent tournament grounds target dummies if you want a purely single target dummy. just spec out of TOF if you want to check your pre-execute dps as it will go down to 1hp and stay there.

    also, does mastery work with insanity yet? it'd be pretty significant, as raidbuffed we usually have around 30%ish mastery chance.

  17. #17
    Priest single-target is just retarde-dly bad right now imo, we got nothing against other hybrids. Im ilvl 504 now in high end guild, and other hybrids as Monks/Boomers/Rets scale so much better with gear its ridiculous. They will go above us on damage. The only way were liable atm is with ToF and Executes, there is where our damage lays. The only fights i can fuck the others on are fights like Amber Shaper / Elegon HC, where we have a massive uptime on ToF and executes, we get alot more Shadoworbs and 15% increased dmg like 80% of the fight, thats when we can shine. Rest of the fights, its a fact we are brought cus of Hymns and Massdispells, kiting duty and bullshit like that. Next tier can be good with the ShA cap increased but its still way to RNG. Me for one are most certainly re-rolling a warlock in 5.2. Blizz made me do it. The state they have placed priests in, its like they are fisting us on purpose. We have always been able to do good damage with some skill, but now? Noway. I see totally no-skilled dipshits pressing 2 buttons and race past me on damage.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 06:31 PM ----------

    BUMP - Elemental shamans still suck ass, but anyway if you're a shaman with a brian you'd just go Enh and rape the damage.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
    Priest single-target is just retarde-dly bad right now imo, we got nothing against other hybrids. Im ilvl 504 now in high end guild, and other hybrids as Monks/Boomers/Rets scale so much better with gear its ridiculous. They will go above us on damage. The only way were liable atm is with ToF and Executes, there is where our damage lays. The only fights i can fuck the others on are fights like Amber Shaper / Elegon HC, where we have a massive uptime on ToF and executes, we get alot more Shadoworbs and 15% increased dmg like 80% of the fight, thats when we can shine. Rest of the fights, its a fact we are brought cus of Hymns and Massdispells, kiting duty and bullshit like that. Next tier can be good with the ShA cap increased but its still way to RNG. Me for one are most certainly re-rolling a warlock in 5.2. Blizz made me do it. The state they have placed priests in, its like they are fisting us on purpose. We have always been able to do good damage with some skill, but now? Noway. I see totally no-skilled dipshits pressing 2 buttons and race past me on damage.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 06:31 PM ----------

    BUMP - Elemental shamans still suck ass, but anyway if you're a shaman with a brian you'd just go Enh and rape the damage.
    Thats the price we pay for having two other spec draining out the few attentions we usually get in between balance patches.

    For PVE just drop the shadow spec, ain't worth the time.

  19. #19
    Dreadlord veiledy0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    I've been getting much better results doing a 1 orb DP rotation using insanity.

    Are you seeing MF;I as having ticks? Because i have yet to and i know that is hindering my dps with it.
    I'm using Gnosis and didn't see any ticks on the castbar. It does have ticks tho, I'm quite sure :X
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by veiledy0 View Post
    I'm using Gnosis and didn't see any ticks on the castbar. It does have ticks tho, I'm quite sure :X
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    ... once I updated Gnosis to track Mind Flay (Insanity) ticks. By the way, the spell ID of MF Insanity is 129197.
    Looks like the fixed the 'cast while casting' bug with MF Insanity.

    I did some Training Dummy tests in Malevolent gear and it looks like Insanity and FDCL are about the same. Insanity is at the most 2-3% better than FDCL single target.

    My damage seems to have increased with the DP change though.
    Last edited by yurano; 2013-01-25 at 03:35 AM.

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