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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Pyra's Avatar
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    [Discipline] Comparing Regail Elite(2/2) with Kri'tak(2/2)

    I dont know if this has been asked before, but i'm asking explicit for discipline priests.
    Regail Elite was better then Kri'tak, but now that i got the extra gem slot from Wrathion. I'm clueless.
    I cant say i need the spirit from Kri'tak, I seem to be just fine with my 8.8k unbuffed. The mastery from Regail however..
    To me, wowhead comparisation tool seems to not always be correct.. Or else it's just confuses me in some way.
    Anyone can help me here?
    I raid in a 10 man environment and usually heal in turns with a shaman, druid and/or paladin (which doesnt have a clue tbh)

    http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items...9882.0.0.0.0.2

    Awesomely made by Caiti.

  2. #2
    The intellect is going to make your heals better than any secondary stat can be, so of course the sha touched weapon will be better, also remember that you get an extra prismatic socket in it for another 160 int.

  3. #3
    High Overlord AtomicKiller's Avatar
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    if you don't need spirit i would go with Regail one...intel is now good only as SP and regail has higher SP than kri'tak even with +500 intel gem.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Thehealbus View Post
    The intellect is going to make your heals better than any secondary stat can be, so of course the sha touched weapon will be better, also remember that you get an extra prismatic socket in it for another 160 int.
    Item level = spellpower = same as intellect, unless you count minor critical chance upgrade. It's nowhere near as obvious as you believe. The main advantage from Kri'tak is spirit and socketing spirit gem.

  5. #5
    High Overlord AtomicKiller's Avatar
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    you can add +socket to Regail too or not?

  6. #6
    as a disc priest if you dont need the spirit Regail is better

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Pyra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicKiller View Post
    you can add +socket to Regail too or not?
    Can i?? Oo

    Quote Originally Posted by Skandulous View Post
    as a disc priest if you dont need the spirit Regail is better
    Yes, that's what i thought

    Edit: Nope, it says "attach to a sha touched weapon"..
    Too good to be true

    Awesomely made by Caiti.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Skandulous View Post
    as a disc priest if you dont need the spirit Regail is better
    You say that now, won't be the case come 5.2

    5.2 Disc Priest Guide | Retired(Playing Aion)

  9. #9
    With the extra gem slot as well I'd say that Kri'tak is outright superior, you get significantly more stats. If you don't need the spirit you can easily change your gems, reforging and even gear to accomodate this.

    To clarify (I'm sure I forgot to account for something, but the end result should be the same): For all practical purposes 467 int is equal to 467 spellpower and ~110 crit rating. Lets put a 320 mastery gem in Kri'tak to make it easier to compare (you could in fact actually chose int here, which depending on your weights tip the scale further in kri'tak's favor). The net gain for using the dagger is then 56 sta, 67 mastery and 40 sp. The gain from using Kri'tak is on the other hand 227 spirit and ~160 crit rating. 160 crit alone is comparable output to 67 mastery and 40 sp, in addition to this you have 227 spirit that instead could be gemmed/reforged into e.g. 227 mastery. Unless all your gear already is reforged and gemmed into pure output Kri'tak is simply the better weapon.

    Edit: Seems like the socket bonus for Regail's (60 crit) isn't included in the item comparison tool, doesn't change the end result enough though.
    Edit2: Didn't add the (minor) mysticism passive+raid buffs, just gives Kri'tak an even bigger advantage.
    Last edited by Cookie; 2013-01-29 at 02:49 PM.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Pyra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    With the extra gem slot as well I'd say that Kri'tak is outright superior, you get significantly more stats. If you don't need the spirit you can easily change your gems, reforging and even gear to accomodate this.

    To clarify (I'm sure I forgot to account for something, but the end result should be the same): For all practical purposes 467 int is equal to 467 spellpower and ~110 crit rating. Lets put a 320 mastery gem in Kri'tak to make it easier to compare (you could in fact actually chose int here, which depending on your weights tip the scale further in kri'tak's favor). The net gain for using the dagger is then 56 sta, 67 mastery and 40 sp. The gain from using Kri'tak is on the other hand 227 spirit and ~160 crit rating. 160 crit alone is comparable output to 67 mastery and 40 sp, in addition to this you have 227 spirit that instead could be gemmed/reforged into e.g. 227 mastery. Unless all your gear already is reforged and gemmed into pure output Kri'tak is simply the better weapon.

    Edit: Seems like the socket bonus for Regail's (60 crit) isn't included in the item comparison tool, doesn't change the end result enough though.
    This is assuming to gem pure mastery in the bonus socket on Kri'tak right?
    Thanks for the listing the gains here, my head would exploid if i'd look at more numbers today

    Awesomely made by Caiti.

  11. #11
    Yeah I assumed a 320 mastery socket there to simplify it a bit, if you'd prefer 160 int or 320 spirit obviously socket that instead (it's the superior wep either way). You're welcome.

  12. #12
    High Overlord Zosyn's Avatar
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    Pyra,

    Since you seem to be going for throughput stats, you should use Regail's Dagger. Since 5.1, mastery is by far disc's most valued stat, which is why the dagger is better. If you are ever in the need of asking a question like this again, please PM me so that I can help you. You could also go to maxdps.com and go to the disc section. This website is usually correct on which piece of gear is better for the spec, this website also makes it easier to see all of your available options for gear, so that you can compare stats/gem slots/etc. I hope this helped!

    And to some of you people who also posted in this thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by Thehealbus View Post
    The intellect is going to make your heals better than any secondary stat can be, so of course the sha touched weapon will be better, also remember that you get an extra prismatic socket in it for another 160 int.
    Thehealbus,

    Are you crazy? The fact that you posted that Intellect is better than ANY secondary stat proves that you know nothing about discipline priest healing right now. Right now (5.1) if you are not mastery stacked, you are doing it wrong. The only thing that Int gives disc right now is Spell power, which is meh, and Crit which is a good stat, but mastery is much better.


    Quote Originally Posted by HolyLathusDisc View Post
    You say that now, won't be the case come 5.2
    HolyLathusDisc,

    I have seen you around these forums a lot lately, mainly talking about how "good" these disc "nerfs" are, and how they are going to make holy "better". Although the majority of your posts are filled with incorrect information, your comment on spirit being more of a desired stat in 5.2 is also incorrect. The only thing thats changing in 5.2 for disc is the playstyle (LOLNOMOREPOHSPAMMMMMM) and the fact that you will need to tightly manage your rapture procs. This will not only make disc more of a niche healing spec, but it is going to increase the skill cap tremendously. And with increased skill cap come increased reward.


    I try not to post on these forums often, because I get really upset with some of the people who post here all the time. But sometimes I cannot help myself from rescuing someone who asked for help and everyone gave them different answers. I hope this helps Pyra, and feel free to PM me if you ever need help again.

  13. #13
    I try not to post on these forums often, because I get really upset with some of the people who post here all the time. But sometimes I cannot help myself from rescuing someone who asked for help and everyone gave them different answers. I hope this helps Pyra, and feel free to PM me if you ever need help again.
    Watching someone act superior while being completely incorrect is incredibly amusing. While we're at it, could you replace your guide with a link to H2P considering that half of your guide is incorrect/useless?

    Since you seem to be going for throughput stats, you should use Regail's Dagger. Since 5.1, mastery is by far disc's most valued stat, which is why the dagger is better. If you are ever in the need of asking a question like this again, please PM me so that I can help you. You could also go to maxdps.com and go to the disc section. This website is usually correct on which piece of gear is better for the spec, this website also makes it easier to see all of your available options for gear, so that you can compare stats/gem slots/etc. I hope this helped!
    Yep, another 67 mastery will offset all the other stat loss... Maxdps.com is a shitty site, that from what I can see doesn't even include the extra gems on the sha-touched weapons.

    Are you crazy? The fact that you posted that Intellect is better than ANY secondary stat proves that you know nothing about discipline priest healing right now. Right now (5.1) if you are not mastery stacked, you are doing it wrong. The only thing that Int gives disc right now is Spell power, which is meh, and Crit which is a good stat, but mastery is much better.
    Do you realise what spellpower does? Depending on your spell usage 2 mastery and 1 int are really close to the same output. This combined with the fact that spirit shell easily caps in 10 man means that intellect easily is the superior stat here. There's room to argue that 2 mastery is slightly better than 1 int in 25 man, but it's hardly definitive.

    The only thing thats changing in 5.2 for disc is the playstyle (LOLNOMOREPOHSPAMMMMMM) and the fact that you will need to tightly manage your rapture procs. This will not only make disc more of a niche healing spec, but it is going to increase the skill cap tremendously. And with increased skill cap come increased reward.
    We'll have significantly bigger mana issues and a bigger need of spirit in 5.2, unlike now spirit won't be useless past 12-13k, some would argue that this does increase spirits value. The 5.2 changes currently means that we'll be doing atonement spam 90% of the time in 10 man, I'm happy that you feel that this requires more skill than PoH spam, I doubt most players would agree.

  14. #14
    Assuming full legendary quest upgrades and all sockets with 320 mastery,

    Kri'tak normal 2/2 + Fan of Fiery Winds heroic 2/2 gives
    2011 stam
    2005 int
    841 spi
    215 crit (plus whatever int gives)
    332 haste
    685 mastery
    7548 spellpower (9553 with int taken into account)

    Regail elite 2/2 + Fan of Fiery Winds heroic 2/2 gives
    2067 stam
    1457 int
    577 spi
    185 crit (plus whatever int gives)
    332 haste
    929 mastery
    8056 spellpower (9513 with int taken into account)

    Basically 250ish more mastery with regail, 250ish more spirit with kri'tak.
    Also, since heroic lei shi is relatively easy,

    Heroic Jin'ya 2/2
    2231 stam
    1986 int
    0 spi
    917 crit (plus whatever int gives)
    621 haste
    734 mastery
    8519 spellpower (10505 with int taken into account)

    The extra 1000 spellpower puts it over, even if mastery > int.

  15. #15
    High Overlord Zosyn's Avatar
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    Cookie,

    I do not have the time right now to "defend" myself against your post, but I will mention a few things.

    1. I am not acting superior, I am just expressing my feelings on the issue.

    2. Even though we are arguing about which weapon is better for someone progressing in MSV heroics you decided to attack my guide. Not only is this irreverent in this current discussion, what you said about it was rude. Is my guide as detailed as the ones on H2P? No, it is not. This does not make my guide incorrect/inferior. In fact, most of the information in my guide is EXACTLY the same as Derevka's Disc guide. The only difference is wording and the math that Derevka uses to prove his statements. I do not "claim" to be a master at the Disc spec, however, I know how to play this game and to be honest, I am pretty good at it.

    3. Maxdps.com is not the BEST site for comparing pieces, but it does a good job listing all the available pieces that you might not have. I never said it should be followed perfectly to make the perfect set of gear. I said it was MOSTLY correct.

    4. You talk about how Int is better for some "spell usage" choices. If you are playing the spec correctly right now, which involces taking advantage of how "OP" DA/SS are, you are mainly PoH spamming for DA shields on groups and SS basically on CD for most fights. Now, since Pyra is in a 10man guild, some of those choices are going to be filled with Heals/Gheals/Penances on tanks to help with tank damage, but from previous 10 man raiding exp, it is mostly PoH Spam.

    5. You mention how in 5.2 we will just be smiting angels and this is correct however you are missing one of the major changes that is also going to change the way we heal. The PW:S mana reduction is going to be a BIG part in our overall healing. The difference between a good disc priest and a meh disc priest in 5.2 is going to involve being able to recognize damage patterns (a lot more than we do now) and SS/PW:S groups in order to avoid the damage. Now one could argue that we are basically doing the same thing now, but instead of PW:S we are just PoHing for DA. But with the DA removed from PoH, there will be less shields, so there will be more damage to heal/absorb. With the increased PW:S usage we will also have to be able to manage our mana more, which adds more skill. I think we will see a lot of these "Lol Disc is op, so im going to play it right now" people go away after 5.2 when they realize its not as face-roll as it is now.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ammunae View Post
    Cookie,

    I do not have the time right now to "defend" myself against your post, but I will mention a few things.

    1. I am not acting superior, I am just expressing my feelings on the issue.

    2. Even though we are arguing about which weapon is better for someone progressing in MSV heroics you decided to attack my guide. Not only is this irreverent in this current discussion, what you said about it was rude. Is my guide as detailed as the ones on H2P? No, it is not. This does not make my guide incorrect/inferior. In fact, most of the information in my guide is EXACTLY the same as Derevka's Disc guide. The only difference is wording and the math that Derevka uses to prove his statements. I do not "claim" to be a master at the Disc spec, however, I know how to play this game and to be honest, I am pretty good at it.

    3. Maxdps.com is not the BEST site for comparing pieces, but it does a good job listing all the available pieces that you might not have. I never said it should be followed perfectly to make the perfect set of gear. I said it was MOSTLY correct.

    4. You talk about how Int is better for some "spell usage" choices. If you are playing the spec correctly right now, which involces taking advantage of how "OP" DA/SS are, you are mainly PoH spamming for DA shields on groups and SS basically on CD for most fights. Now, since Pyra is in a 10man guild, some of those choices are going to be filled with Heals/Gheals/Penances on tanks to help with tank damage, but from previous 10 man raiding exp, it is mostly PoH Spam.

    5. You mention how in 5.2 we will just be smiting angels and this is correct however you are missing one of the major changes that is also going to change the way we heal. The PW:S mana reduction is going to be a BIG part in our overall healing. The difference between a good disc priest and a meh disc priest in 5.2 is going to involve being able to recognize damage patterns (a lot more than we do now) and SS/PW:S groups in order to avoid the damage. Now one could argue that we are basically doing the same thing now, but instead of PW:S we are just PoHing for DA. But with the DA removed from PoH, there will be less shields, so there will be more damage to heal/absorb. With the increased PW:S usage we will also have to be able to manage our mana more, which adds more skill. I think we will see a lot of these "Lol Disc is op, so im going to play it right now" people go away after 5.2 when they realize its not as face-roll as it is now.
    1/2. "And to some of you people who also posted in this thread....", "Thehealbus, Are you crazy?", "I try not to post on these forums often, because I get really upset with some of the people who post here all the time. But sometimes I cannot help myself from rescuing someone who asked for help". Yes, I'd say that you are acting superior and being just as rude as me. I mentioned your guide since that's another example of you trying to help players, while not knowing what to do yourself. I'd be happy to cherrypick a few things from your guide that are entirely incorrect/useless if you want me to (I can't really be arsed to rewrite the entire thing). Just like you seem frustrated by some of the people here I get frustrated by players giving poor advice/guesswork, like you (you had to do some third grade math to establish that kri'tak is superior to regails, yet you prefered to go on a rant about how every other advice in the thread was wrong?).

    3. So why link to it if it isn't the best site? Linking/saying "mostly correct" information isn't helpful, if it isn't obvious what item is superior maxdps.com may very well be incorrect, and if it is obvious the site doesn't have much use. Yes you can use it to look up possible items, just like wowhead, icy-veins or the dungeon journal. Thanks for this awesome site!

    4. Feel free to look at the spell usage in top logs for 25 and 10 man. Overall 2 mastery will give slightly more output than 1 int if you go according to the top 25 man spell usage, 1 int will give more output than 2 mastery if you go according to the top 10 man spell usage (great for you if all you do is to spam PoH in 10 man, but most discs in top guilds use way more tools than that and it involves a lot of atonement healing). In addition to this things like SS capping and the fact that increasing SS significantly is quite pointless (since the raid is practically immortal during it in 10 man) both shift the stat values heavily into ints favor for 10 man raiding.

    5. 25% mana reduction and a nerfed rapture doesn't mean that we'll suddenly be able to afford to spam PW:S unless you have a ton of resto shamans, and even if we did spamming PW:S before incoming damage isn't more interesting than spamming PoH nor is it enough output to match every other healers aoe healing. If you by "managing our mana more" mean that we'll go oom quicker, yes. If you aren't playing with 12k spirit (in your case due to sacrificing every output bonus, while apparently having no mana issues, very strange reasoning) while having resto shamans in the raid you already need to manage your mana to an extent.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ammunae View Post
    Pyra,

    Since you seem to be going for throughput stats, you should use Regail's Dagger. Since 5.1, mastery is by far disc's most valued stat, which is why the dagger is better. If you are ever in the need of asking a question like this again, please PM me so that I can help you. You could also go to maxdps.com and go to the disc section. This website is usually correct on which piece of gear is better for the spec, this website also makes it easier to see all of your available options for gear, so that you can compare stats/gem slots/etc. I hope this helped!

    And to some of you people who also posted in this thread....



    Thehealbus,

    Are you crazy? The fact that you posted that Intellect is better than ANY secondary stat proves that you know nothing about discipline priest healing right now. Right now (5.1) if you are not mastery stacked, you are doing it wrong. The only thing that Int gives disc right now is Spell power, which is meh, and Crit which is a good stat, but mastery is much better.




    HolyLathusDisc,

    I have seen you around these forums a lot lately, mainly talking about how "good" these disc "nerfs" are, and how they are going to make holy "better". Although the majority of your posts are filled with incorrect information, your comment on spirit being more of a desired stat in 5.2 is also incorrect. The only thing thats changing in 5.2 for disc is the playstyle (LOLNOMOREPOHSPAMMMMMM) and the fact that you will need to tightly manage your rapture procs. This will not only make disc more of a niche healing spec, but it is going to increase the skill cap tremendously. And with increased skill cap come increased reward.


    I try not to post on these forums often, because I get really upset with some of the people who post here all the time. But sometimes I cannot help myself from rescuing someone who asked for help and everyone gave them different answers. I hope this helps Pyra, and feel free to PM me if you ever need help again.

    Perhaps you missed the part where rapture got a 50% nerf. SO yes, Spirit will be a bit higher on disc priority.

    5.2 Disc Priest Guide | Retired(Playing Aion)

  18. #18
    For those who doesnt know about Int.
    1 Int gives you ~1.33SP and ~0.25 crit rating.
    300 Int gives you ~400SP and 75 crit rating. Which converts in 0.88% increase to ALL spells in ALL situations (raw hps AND dps increase) and 0,125% crit (which buffs all spells except PWS).
    600 Mastery gives you 2.5% increase to absorbs only. Which is DA, PWS and SS (with wrong formula).

    If spells distribution is something like that:
    30% SS
    20% DA
    5% PWS
    and 45% all other spells, which scales from all stats at the same way, so

    Mastery affects 55% of HPS, Int Affects 100% of HPS, Crit affects 95% of HPS.
    In 1st approximation it will be like this:
    Mastery value 2.5%*55% = 1.375% increase per 600 stats
    Int value 0.88%*100% + 0.125%*0.95% ~ 1% hps AND dps increase per 300 stats, or 2% hps AND dps increase per 600 stats.

    Thats value for PoH spam. Int clearly a winner as stat on gear and lose for hps as stat on gems. But again winner even as gem if you are dps contributor (in 10 ppl it is important)

    For more attonement like style:
    20% SS
    15% DA
    5% PWS
    and 60% all other spells
    Mastery value 2.5%*40% = 1% increase per 600 stats
    Int value 0.88%*100% + 0.125%*0.95% ~ 1% hps AND dps increase per 300 stats or 2% hps AND dps increase per 600 stat
    Int absolutely must have as stat on gear and gems. Mastery is no-no.

    Lets compare not upgraded versions of Kritak and Regail dagger:
    Kritak has:
    1252 int (1665 sp and 0.52% crit)
    7907 sp (9567 sp after buffs)
    405 spi (~387mp5 with rapture)
    225 crit (0.375% crit)
    150 mast (0,625% mastery)
    Total: 11 232sp, 0.895%crit, 0.625% mastery, 387mp5

    Regail dagger:
    712 int (947 sp and 0.30% crit
    8441 sp (10214 sp after buffs)
    131 spi (~160mp5 with rapture)
    198 crit (0.33% crit
    412 mast (1,72% mastery)
    Total: 11 161sp, 0.63%crit, 1.72% mastery, 160mp5

    Difference:
    71sp to Kritak, 0.265% crit to Kritak, 227 mp5 to Kritak and 1.095% mastery to Regail.
    71sp gives you 0.1562% increase to hps AND dps
    227mp5 gives you 1 free PoH in 5 min fight, lets assume thats a 300k healing per free cast per 5 min, so 300 000 heal / 300 sec = 1000 hps. If you make 100 000hps, 1k of that 100k is 1%.

    For PoH spam
    Kritak value:
    0.1562% * 100% + 0.265%*0.95% = 0.4% hps AND dps increase + 1%hps with improved mp5 compared to Regail
    Regail dagger value
    1.095%*0.55% = 0,6% hps increase compared to Kritak.

    Totally:
    Kritak 0.8% hps and 0.4% dps increase compared to Regail in PoH spam situation.
    It doesnt need to compare that weapons in attonement situation, because its obvious.

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire Pyra's Avatar
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    @szer,
    That's with a pure int gem then in the bonus socket of kritak? or?
    So what you're saying is to never gem mastery, but pure int? Oo

    Awesomely made by Caiti.

  20. #20
    That's with a pure int gem then in the bonus socket of kritak? or?
    yep. I dont think 60 crit is a good socket bonus. Gem pure Mastery or pure Int, based on your gameplay
    So what you're saying is to never gem mastery, but pure int? Oo
    Before 5.2 I advise you to find gear w/o mastery =) Atm, mastery is much better for pure PoH spam w/o attonement.
    And pure int is much better for mixed gameplay with attonement and SS usage.
    Last edited by Szer; 2013-01-29 at 05:23 PM. Reason: adding phrase

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