1. #1

    Easy bosses = too easy, hard bosses = too annoying

    I don't really get what bosses people want anymore.
    If they down a boss after a few tries they start crying about how easy it was and that blizz failed on every level. Oh, and don't forget that WoW is dying.
    If they don't down a boss right away they start crying about how annoying the boss is and that blizz failed on every level. I guess WoW is dying here as well.
    So - what do you want?
    Do you want bosses that are like trash mobs like in MC? A few adds + 1 debuff = boss? Would that be too easy? Your nostalgia says that MC was great, right?
    Do you want bosses that are hard and long as f*ck like Kael'thas? Now you may think it has been a great boss fight and I think so too but if blizz would release something like that nowadays I can guarantee you that people would cry about all the RP, about too many phases, about how annoying it is and so on.

    Please enlighten me. Is there even something between "too easy" and "too annoying"? I think for most people there isn't. They'll always find something to bitch about. Like I do with this thread by bitching about their bitching I guess.
    What do people want?

  2. #2
    Something between - a boss that does not tolerate 10 mistakes in a row like LFR - but also a boss that does not wipe the raid because one guy made one mistake (heroic and a few normal mode bosses). People want a challenge on their road but not a gigantic stone wall. It's really difficult to balance that way. Everybody can create freeloot and ultrahard bosses. To have a challenge that still tolerates 1-2 mistakes is something Blizzard always had a problem with.




  3. #3
    It is rarely the same ppl calling one boss both as time passes. Several million ppl play the game so ppl will always struggle or breeze through things at different paces. You do also have one of my favorite type of WoW idiots. The person that struggles with something, bitches about it and blames everybody but themself for why they don'tor can't do it. Then the momment they pull their head out of their ass and figure it out they slam anybody that still struggles with it and act like they never had any issue with it. Those are the idiots saying they are amazing when they are but they fail to see they are amazingly bad.
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  4. #4
    Do you have any examples of the same people crying about things both being too easy and too hard? Or do you think that because some want things easy, other should not be allowed to wish for more difficulty?

    The main thing you don't seen to understand about people is that there's a lot of them, and they all have their own thoughts and opinions and wishes.

    Cheers.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kryos View Post
    Something between - a boss that does not tolerate 10 mistakes in a row like LFR - but also a boss that does not wipe the raid because one guy made one mistake (heroic and a few normal mode bosses).
    If you don't want that, don't do heroic raids I'd suggest :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Madelein View Post
    ...I haven't seen HM Rag yet. But I have to say, thus far from what I have seen in the game, and this is going back to before MC even came out, C'thun and KT 40man,...
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  6. #6
    Field Marshal Mirean's Avatar
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    I prefer "more annoying", although some of our raiders don't...I like challenge... That feeling, when the boss, where you wiped at least 50 times, finally drops to the ground, is really great. Not like when you come to a boss, explain tactics, wipe once and kill him. That isn't a boss for me.

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  7. #7
    it's almost as if 'people' are actually individuals with seperate opinions and views, weird right?

    and you cant please all the people all the time; i'm quite happy with the current content.

    also, the huge majority of wow players dont even post on forums.
    Last edited by Ylera; 2013-01-27 at 12:22 PM.

  8. #8
    That's quite the strawman you've created there, Zelos.

    The community is not all one giant mass, all linked to the same network which tells us all how to think. There are so many people with so many different opinions out there. Some like easy bosses. Some like hard bosses. Some want something in between. Some don't even want to raid at all and just ignore that entire aspect of the game.

    There's no point in getting angry at the community seemingly contradicting itself, because it isn't. It's just different people complaining about each individual topic. As such, what the community wants seems to always change, because it's always different people complaining about different things, whilst those who are happy just keep on playing the game and stay silent.

  9. #9
    The Patient heinevilla's Avatar
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    As a healer, IF I COULD CHOOSE, I would prefer bosses without a debuff.. (Like Blade'Lorde HC)
    - Oh wait... That would be to easy? Blizzard have made some good mechanics, which easily can be done by whoever tries. All it takes is, spend 5-10min. to read the whole fight (watch it etc.), a couple of tries to see the phases and how to position the boss, the raid etc..

    If you can't manage this, and you whine when you have wiped on a boss like 3 times... Then raiding maybe isn't for you.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    The community is not all one giant mass, all linked to the same network which tells us all how to think. There are so many people with so many different opinions out there. Some like easy bosses. Some like hard bosses. Some want something in between. Some don't even want to raid at all and just ignore that entire aspect of the game.
    My point is a bit different I think.
    Those "opinions" you mention seem to be directly related to how many tries someone needs to down a boss. A few tries = boss too easy, many tries = boss too annoying. If you want examples just look around in the threads in this forum.
    Of course there are exceptions, as there are in every aspect of life. But I say there actually IS that "giant mass" that doesn't even try to make any sense when talking about the things they don't like about WoW. I'd even go as far to say that an opinion like "the classic bosses were better" is flat out wrong. They literally miss so many abilities that I can't even think of them as a boss (I'm looking at nearly everything in MC here, the 3 dragons in BWL, many of the bosses in AQ except for Skeram, Twins, Ouro and C'thun). They are what trash mobs are nowadays and people still compare them to newer ones and get to the conclusion that nowadays everything sucks.
    Maybe someone should tell them that doing the same thing for nearly 10 years lets you get better at that specific thing... just saying.

    Coming back to topic... I can't remember properly but have there already been people complaining that bosses are too easy/too hard?
    Maybe it's my nostalgia but I can only remember people asking for help on bosses they couldn't down and only very very rarely someone who complained about the difficulty.

  11. #11
    Eh...raids have been fine...I can't think of a boss that's been dumb because of how hard or easy it was. Heroic Rag was a lot of fun, in particular. T11 was really annoying because of all the interrupt mechanics you needed. That's kind of like Blade Lord this tier...if you don't have a priest, it's a lot more difficult than it needs to be. Early Spine in DS was bad too.

  12. #12
    Sorry for my Bad english

    my Thoughts on this Theme:

    Sha NH is a good Example. Sometimes Latency hits you and you get feared, its good that it doesnt kill you or the raid instant when the lag thinks its funny to let you run. So if a Healer is quick or you are able to do as example a anti fear an a def cd before you get killed. Its a good compromise between challenging and a no brainer.

    On the other side there was, lets say Thaddius in classic Naxx. A Latency over 300 would get you and one Half of your Raid instantly Killed when switching Sides. You could play absolutely perfect and still wipe the Raid.

    Personally i dont want Encounters like Muru Prenerf back. Its was the most intense Bossfight i ever had, but it was so unvorgiving that i had a few nightmares after we downed him.

  13. #13
    No matter what kind of boss Blizzard makes, there will be players that say they are too easy.
    And too hard.

    That's how things work when there's many kinds of players with different premises raid the same bosses.
    So then we have LFR, Normal and HC. I think it's pretty clear where each players fit.

    You can't commit to raiding times, or have a guild that doesn't actively raid? LFR.
    You have an average guild that aren't all about minmaxing? Normal.
    You have a guild that pushes the limits? HC.
    Last edited by MasterHamster; 2013-01-27 at 12:59 PM.
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  14. #14
    Believe it or not, there are different groups of people complaining about different things.

    Also, annoying bosses are not necessarily hard. Lei Shi for example. Most annoying fucking boss in the game, but its pretty easy.

  15. #15
    Fluffy Kitten Millennía's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kryos View Post
    Something between - a boss that does not tolerate 10 mistakes in a row like LFR - but also a boss that does not wipe the raid because one guy made one mistake (heroic and a few normal mode bosses). People want a challenge on their road but not a gigantic stone wall. It's really difficult to balance that way. Everybody can create freeloot and ultrahard bosses. To have a challenge that still tolerates 1-2 mistakes is something Blizzard always had a problem with.
    Agree'd. Easy bosses may not always be fun but neither are overly difficult bosses, at least not on normal mode. I think that normal mode should be allowed to continue even after 1 or 2 mistakes are made because it is normal. I am only 15/16 normal mode on the current tier but from experience I think that Amber Shaper is particularly bad for this problem.

    We have killed him but it took a lot longer than I would care to admit and the only reason being is that 1 or 2 people screw up the interrupting on themselves or the monstrosity which causes people to die and inevitably a wipe. The construct is also not something that you can really get comfortable with for some people because out of 30 tries you could only be reshaped once or twice. Especially annoying if you are 2 healing and he reshapes a healer and the other healer gets stunned by the fling. Just overall despise that boss.

  16. #16
    TBH for me the harder the boss the better. Sorta like yogg 0 or mu'ru, not many people killed it at the time, but people like myself who dedicated weeks on it and actual enjoy brick-walling got the kill. Not every one should be killing everything in heroic IMO.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer slime's Avatar
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    I think this really only applies to the middle of the pack and Blizz is actually trying hard to give you as many choices as possible for raiding...

    Want faceroll: LFR
    Want a challenge: Heroic raids

    The normal modes are where the complaints come in, because this is the hardest difficulty to tune to all of your normal raiders and keep them happy. Dropping the LFR and Heroic mode raiders from the arguement (because they have a difficulty made just for them) the normals will almost never fall at the perfect 50% mark of easy/hard. They will lean one one or the other. You have the normal mode raiders who dabble a bit in heroic mode, and feel normal is kinda easy. And you have the normal moders that roll their yes after 3 wipes on a progression boss and say to themselves... 'this wiping isn't fun, this boss is tuned too hard'. It will be near impossible to keep every normal mode raider happy all the time.


    About the only thing left to do for Blizz to do is to create a difficulty slider control so you can actually tune the difficulty to your group. personally I think that would be terrible and the 'jump the shark' moment for WoW.

    Faceroll easy <------------------------exact normal 50% difficulty---------------------->Yes. Your balls belong to us Heroic raid 100% difficulty

    So when comparing to other teams you would say we downed Sindragosa at 44% difficulty. And another team could be like, we are pushing ourselves and trying to get 85% difficulty LK down tonight.

    (As always everything is IMO)
    Last edited by slime; 2013-01-27 at 01:40 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by chosenkiwi View Post
    TBH for me the harder the boss the better. Sorta like yogg 0 or mu'ru, not many people killed it at the time, but people like myself who dedicated weeks on it and actual enjoy brick-walling got the kill. Not every one should be killing everything in heroic IMO.
    Well then you should be pretty satisfied with the current tier. Less than 1% of guilds that have attempted raiding have killed Sha of Fear on heroic.

  19. #19
    the problem is most people don't know what they want, then different groups of people will also have different opinions, with the amount of people playing WoW you will never get one unified voice.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by chosenkiwi View Post
    TBH for me the harder the boss the better. Sorta like yogg 0 or mu'ru, not many people killed it at the time, but people like myself who dedicated weeks on it and actual enjoy brick-walling got the kill. Not every one should be killing everything in heroic IMO.
    You're kind of missing the point of the thread, then. Not everyone wants a boss that's impossible to kill because Blizz didn't think it through enough, and no one wants a boss you can faceroll without thinking at all on your first try. I'm all for a good challenge, but I don't care for cheapness or dying because Blizzard overtuned things.
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