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  1. #561
    Of course racism isn't a big deal. The Civil Rights Movement was just a huge block party. /sarcasm

  2. #562
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    The issue wasn't mixed harritage, but you using the 'n-word'... Intolerance over a word is wholly different than over race. As in, one is racism and the other one is not...
    Nope, it was about me saying it, not about the word per se, since they used it like there were no tomorrow. That's what baffled me.

  3. #563
    Elemental Lord Noomz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddeliciousone View Post
    Since you're from Germany, I'm sure you've noticed the big discussion about removing some allegedly 'offensive' words from old children's books. The greatest shitstorm was started by the removal of the word 'Neger' (Negro). So, while some ppl complain about this being overly politically correct, I actually approve this action.

    Now I know, it's a word that has been used for a long time for blacks/coloreds in the German language (same as Mohr/Moor before that). Just think of the Sarotti-Mohr. Still, the meaning of this word has since been contaminated. While it was just a term to call out a certain group of people, the main usage now is to offend. Maybe not by you personally, but by enough people to be considered racist and wrong. So there's a pretty good reason for removing such words from old books imho. Same goes for the Negerkuss/Negrokiss.

    I'm colored and I live in Germany. While I myself am (mostly) not offended by this word, I still understand the concerns. I don't think it's paranoid, I think it's considerate. And what's wrong with that?

    ------------

    Being a proud German and called a Nazi equals being a believing muslim and being called a terrorist/islamist/extremist. I agree, it's plain stupid. But maybe it's wrong to be proud of being born in any way the wrong concept whatsoever? Why should I be proud of being German? Why should I be proud of being American? Why should I be proud of being Black/White/Colored? It's not really my achievement, I'm just born that way. Nothing to be proud of. I'm HAPPY that I grew up in a good and stable economy with all of its conveniences, but not proud of it. What I'm proud of is that I grew up to be a decent human being with a good job and that I have people around me who actually care about me. I think you get the point.

    Not trying to piss on your rug here, I get why ppl say they're proud of their nationality, but I guess in a lot of cases that's the root of all evil.

    greetz, MAD
    We have that discussion here in Sweden as well. Some people found a brand of candy to be racist against chinese people because it shows a caricature of a chinese man with a straw hat and thin eyes, so the makes of the candy actually caved in and changed it. Ridiculous, because it's not an intentionally racist thing, it was a caricature, a joke.
    It's a bit like making some candy that is British-inspired and put a guy on the package that has bad teeth. Except no-one would call that racist.

    I think people say that racism against white people doesn't happen because white people often make so much jokes about on another that trying to be racist against someone that is white simply won't work. We just don't care about it.

    I agree with you, national pride is strange. But many feel pride in being part of a culture or a larger thing. Ofcourse, such things are taken to extremes by some people, which sadly puts a taboo on national pride in some countries.

  4. #564
    Bloodsail Admiral Ninaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddeliciousone View Post
    Since you're from Germany, I'm sure you've noticed the big discussion about removing some allegedly 'offensive' words from old children's books. The greatest shitstorm was started by the removal of the word 'Neger' (Negro). So, while some ppl complain about this being overly politically correct, I actually approve this action.
    Now, I don't want to be rude by calling them "Negro's Kiss" or "Moor's Head" but that's how they've been called almost my entire childhood. How else shall I call them? "Dickmann's", because they are the prime manufacturer? :/
    Mastery will fix it.

  5. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by maddeliciousone View Post
    Nope, it was about me saying it, not about the word per se, since they used it like there were no tomorrow. That's what baffled me.
    They didn't have a problem with your race if you didn't say it. If you didn't say, would there been a problem? Did saying it change your race? I can call my friends OTB, but if someone passing us used the same term, without knowing the context of a passer by it seems insulting.
    Go Hawks!!!!

  6. #566
    The Lightbringer Tekkommo's Avatar
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    It's pretty bad to judge someone by their race, it can also be hard not to with so many stereotypes spread around.

    Scottish people are meant known to be tight with their money, I can say this is far from the truth for many people I know, but it's also true for some people I know.

    Every country in the world has idiots, nice people, evil people, poor people, rich people, middle class, the list goes on. To instantly think someone is a certain way and all you have to judge them on is their race, is pretty pathetic. I think you would be surprised how many people are 'normal' (I use the term 'normal' loosely).

  7. #567
    Elemental Lord Noomz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddeliciousone View Post
    Fun fact: Because I'm mixed and therefore obviously not 'pure white' or 'pure black', I find myself sometimes in a stalemate situation. Sure, since I live in Germany, I came in touch with my fair share of racist Nazis, but on (very) few occasions with stupid blacks, too. Not too long ago me and a (black) friend of mine got pretty wasted and we went by a club visited mostly by African people gone gangster. As he was a few steps ahead I said something along the lines of 'Wait up, Ni**a!!', which was meant jokingly, by all means.

    Still, a whole bunch of guys came out of the club to confront ME, because they we're offended by me using that word. They actually wanted to beat me up. It was a weird situation to me, since they didn't consider me as 'one of theirs' either due to my mixed heritage. Intolerance isn't limited to white men, not at all.
    This is what I mean. People need to be able to joke about racism, it will disarm it. Humor is the solution to many of the worlds problems, and when we can't make a joke about something, we're doing something wrong.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-28 at 05:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninaran View Post
    Now, I don't want to be rude by calling them "Negro's Kiss" or "Moor's Head" but that's how they've been called almost my entire childhood. How else shall I call them? "Dickmann's", because they are the prime manufacturer? :/
    We've had a similar thing here in Sweden. There's something literally called "Negro balls", but not balls as in testies, but ball as in football. Some people call them "chocolate balls" instead nowadays, but in the privacy of our homes we still say Negro Balls

    Here's a classic swedish movie that makes a joke about it when a team of black American basketball players come to a café.


  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninaran View Post
    Now, I don't want to be rude by calling them "Negro's Kiss" or "Moor's Head" but that's how they've been called almost my entire childhood. How else shall I call them? "Dickmann's", because they are the prime manufacturer? :/
    Heh, I sometimes call them Negerkuss myself, but i guess the politically correct term would be Schokokuss/Schaumkuss (Chocolate-Kiss/Mousse-Kiss)


    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    They didn't have a problem with your race if you didn't say it. If you didn't say, would there been a problem? Did saying it change your race? I can call my friends OTB, but if someone passing us used the same term, without knowing the context of a passer by it seems insulting.
    The only point I was trying to make is that as a mixed guy, you can piss off both sides. I never called them racist, it was just weird to me that they considered it offensive of me (mixed) to call my friend (black) a N-word, the reason being me not being.. black enough. That's just stupid, won't you agree? They used it all the time in our heated discussion. Clearly, it wasn't intolerance over the word but over a half black, half white guy using it.

    I'm not trying to justify the usage of the word at all, since I usually don't use it myself and don't see to many reasons to do so, but since it happened, it kept me wondering: How black must one be to be allowed to use such words? Where is the line drawn? Are all people just stupid?

  9. #569
    Quote Originally Posted by Noomz View Post
    We have that discussion here in Sweden as well. Some people found a brand of candy to be racist against chinese people because it shows a caricature of a chinese man with a straw hat and thin eyes, so the makes of the candy actually caved in and changed it. Ridiculous, because it's not an intentionally racist thing, it was a caricature, a joke.It's a bit like making some candy that is British-inspired and put a guy on the package that has bad teeth. Except no-one would call that racist.
    Intentionally or unintentional does not change it from being racist. It's as simple as, people got offended and did something about it, while if there was a characature with bad teeth, you'd have an avenue to do the same. What I don't understand, if someone finds it offensive and you change the name, why not take the change at face value as an attempt by the candy maker to sell their product to as many people as possible? I would think it would be in the best interest of any product to avoid scrutiny or get press from fixing it, in order to sell more product.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noomz View Post
    I think people say that racism against white people doesn't happen because white people often make so much jokes about on another that trying to be racist against someone that is white simply won't work. We just don't care about it.
    A victim of phisicsl harm due to racism, in two different countries for two different reasons. One resulted in being a refugee and the other in the only injury that ever required a cast that I ever had. Oh and I'm white, the perpetrators were all white as well. I am just a Jew and than an immigrant...

    Quote Originally Posted by Noomz View Post
    I agree with you, national pride is strange. But many feel pride in being part of a culture or a larger thing. Ofcourse, such things are taken to extremes by some people, which sadly puts a taboo on national pride in some countries.
    What is culture if not always changing? Culture is what it is because of the changes that happened to the country. It's grasping to a figment of what culture was, while fighting what it has become.
    Go Hawks!!!!

  10. #570
    Elemental Lord Noomz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeaponXAnimosity View Post
    Of course racism isn't a big deal. The Civil Rights Movement was just a huge block party. /sarcasm
    I think todays rights movements should move away from that, because the real problem nowadays is social differences between those that have no money and those that have all of it.

  11. #571
    The problem in the UK at the moment is the aparent lack of distinction between "Racism" and "Generalisation". People tend to use the former for negative traits and the latter for positive but this is not how they should be. Generalisation is very important, racism is not.

    If you say "black men are generally more athletic than white men", it's a generalisation sure, but is it racist? It's not denying that there could be white people more athletic than black people, but it's saying a general pattern.

    I honestly believe you can generalise a LOT about people from different cultures based on cultural differences, work ethics etc. There are things in built into cultures that you come across SO readily that if you overlook such clear patterns it can be very counterproductive and some times possibly even quite dangerous.

    In this country, people say things like "Indians and Polish people are hard working and dedicated." In my experience, especially with Indians, 9/10 times they're BLOODY hard working and very fast and efficient. It's just a cultural work ethic. But I won't hire based on Race because not all Indians are the same, everyone is an individual and can break any petterns of their society and culture.

    Now if I said "another race, who'll currently go nameless, are mostly lazy bullshitters that lie about their skills, pass as much of their work onto others as possible, and promote unskilled people of their own race above other races at the detriment of even the entire company." Again, it seems to be a part of the culture that they just look after themselves. There are many of that race that are actually very hard working and break any kind of generalisation, and I would always treat each person as an individual while looking at them for recruitment, but most people will say even having that generalisation that is 9 times out of 10 true is racist in itself.

  12. #572
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Well, "racism" isn't new to humanity. Judging people, jalousy, envy and other things of that nature is what's made "our" species of homo-sapiens evolve to the place we are today. We didn't evolve from the hunting man in the cave, we evolved from the man that clubbed the hunters and stole their food. Same reasons why wars happen today, greed or "need" of natural resources and so on.
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  13. #573
    Elemental Lord Noomz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    Intentionally or unintentional does not change it from being racist. It's as simple as, people got offended and did something about it, while if there was a characature with bad teeth, you'd have an avenue to do the same. What I don't understand, if someone finds it offensive and you change the name, why not take the change at face value as an attempt by the candy maker to sell their product to as many people as possible? I would think it would be in the best interest of any product to avoid scrutiny or get press from fixing it, in order to sell more product.

    A victim of phisicsl harm due to racism, in two different countries for two different reasons. One resulted in being a refugee and the other in the only injury that ever required a cast that I ever had. Oh and I'm white, the perpetrators were all white as well. I am just a Jew and than an immigrant...

    What is culture if not always changing? Culture is what it is because of the changes that happened to the country. It's grasping to a figment of what culture was, while fighting what it has become.

    If we are to cave in to everything people are offended about, we're never gonna stop whining.
    That brand of candy had been the same for several decades and all of a sudden, someone acts offended about it. We shouldn't bend to anyone that has the ability to complain.

    The difference is that the british analogy I made is to show that no-one would actually call that racism, because I think that most Brits have enough of a sense of humor to look at it as the joke that it is intended to be.

    There's a difference between humor and exhaggerated stereotypes, and blatant racism.

    I agree, culture is ever changing. But change for the sake of change, is not good. That minorities get the amount of influence they do is undemocratic. Much like muslims in my own country. You can call anything that works against you to be racist, and that's what I think is happening, and that is what I object to.

  14. #574
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    Black guys love chicken and watermelon too, but only racists focus on the "crime and drugs" side. Respect our coloured friends for they have truly seen the light, Chicken and watermelon is a good diet.

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by maddeliciousone View Post
    The only point I was trying to make is that as a mixed guy, you can piss off both sides. I never called them racist, it was just weird to me that they considered it offensive of me (mixed) to call my friend (black) a N-word, the reason being me not being.. black enough. That's just stupid, won't you agree? They used it all the time in our heated discussion. Clearly, it wasn't intolerance over the word but over a half black, half white guy using it.
    Yeah, just like you can piss of anyone by screaming obscenities at your friend. Walk by a sinagage and scream to your friend 'your so cheap'. You could be Jewish, but will still piss people off. Not because of who you are or what you are, but because of the obscenities you scream. The reason you got in trouble is because you said something. If you said it and was black, it changes the context of what you said. In either regard, you are running away from personal responsobility involved in screaming obscenities and are focused on race.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddeliciousone View Post
    I'm not trying to justify the usage of the word at all, since I usually don't use it myself and don't see to many reasons to do so, but since it happened, it kept me wondering: How black must one be to be allowed to use such words? Where is the line drawn? Are all people just stupid?
    It really depends on the individual who hears it. The line is drawn by the individual who hears you using the term. If you use the word, you have to deal with consequences from those who hear it, not society. Your friend doesn't care, so his line is set there. The people who heard you, but don't know you, are different from your friend. People are not stupid, we have a unique trait of being both, self absorbed and lacking self awareness.
    Go Hawks!!!!

  16. #576
    Typical "WANTED" poster in pretty much every Russian police precinct. Text under demotivator repeats popular political tolerant slogan "crime have no nationality", while all faces and first last/names on the poster are clearly of so-called "people of Caucasian nationality" (here it doesn't mean "white" as in rest of the world, but highlanders of real Caucas).

  17. #577
    Elemental Lord Noomz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    The problem in the UK at the moment is the aparent lack of distinction between "Racism" and "Generalisation". People tend to use the former for negative traits and the latter for positive but this is not how they should be. Generalisation is very important, racism is not.

    If you say "black men are generally more athletic than white men", it's a generalisation sure, but is it racist? It's not denying that there could be white people more athletic than black people, but it's saying a general pattern.

    I honestly believe you can generalise a LOT about people from different cultures based on cultural differences, work ethics etc. There are things in built into cultures that you come across SO readily that if you overlook such clear patterns it can be very counterproductive and some times possibly even quite dangerous.

    In this country, people say things like "Indians and Polish people are hard working and dedicated." In my experience, especially with Indians, 9/10 times they're BLOODY hard working and very fast and efficient. It's just a cultural work ethic. But I won't hire based on Race because not all Indians are the same, everyone is an individual and can break any petterns of their society and culture.

    Now if I said "another race, who'll currently go nameless, are mostly lazy bullshitters that lie about their skills, pass as much of their work onto others as possible, and promote unskilled people of their own race above other races at the detriment of even the entire company." Again, it seems to be a part of the culture that they just look after themselves. There are many of that race that are actually very hard working and break any kind of generalisation, and I would always treat each person as an individual while looking at them for recruitment, but most people will say even having that generalisation that is 9 times out of 10 true is racist in itself.
    Exactly. Even if generalizations talk about physical traits, I think people choose to make it negative and think it's racism. That's what I mean, people need to relax a bit and be able to joke about themselves.

  18. #578
    Wait a minute, let's see if i've got this right.

    White person calls a black person some names - Racism
    Black person calls a white person some names - Reverse racism, he isn't at fault.

    Does being a white person mean I have to either get on with everybody or keep my opinions to myself or risk being classed as a racist?(which is fine) But others can voice opinions about me and can get away with it?

    Let me offer my view on the points i listed above.

    White person calls a black person some names - Racism
    Black person calls a white person some names - Racism (nothing to do with reverse racism, it's just racism).

    I might have completely overlooked the meaning and I apologise if I have.

  19. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by Sast View Post
    Does being a white person mean I have to either get on with everybody or keep my opinions to myself or risk being classed as a racist?(which is fine) But others can voice opinions about me and can get away with it?
    Nah, just lie and say that you're Jewish and then you can be as racist as you want and it doesn't count. You will have to keep mentioning that you're Jewish regularly though for this to work.

  20. #580
    Bloodsail Admiral Ninaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    Nah, just lie and say that you're Jewish and then you can be as racist as you want and it doesn't count. You will have to keep mentioning that you're Jewish regularly though for this to work.
    "Why do you disagree with me? I'm a jew, are you Hitler?"

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