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  1. #761
    Quote Originally Posted by Booshman View Post
    Those terms have been considered outdated and irrelevant for over a few decades now. As is that entire study on race and IQ; as nothing has been proven in a remotely air-tight manner that could properly demonstrate a hardwired range between the "races". The only thing out there are shotty studies that use inconsistent and questionable methods, by people who aren't even experts in the field.
    That's a matter that's up for debate, but I'd rather not, I'm not much of an expert on the subject either(I may have misused that phrase). The phenotypes are still there, whether you believe that brain size is related to IQ or not.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  2. #762
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    That's a matter that's up for debate, but I'd rather not, I'm not much of an expert on the subject either(I may have misused that phrase). The phenotypes are still there, whether you believe that brain size is related to IQ or not.
    Oh, but brain size (to body mass ratio) is related to IQ.
    However, ex-utero socio-economic development is directly related to brain size, something a lot of people overlook.

  3. #763
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    No sorry. We are talking about slave trading. Selling people. Predominant aspect of African commerce.
    I know what we were talking about, but that doesn't refute what I said.

  4. #764
    Quote Originally Posted by Booshman View Post
    Those terms have been considered outdated and irrelevant for over a few decades now. As is that entire study on race and IQ; as nothing has been proven in a remotely air-tight manner that could properly demonstrate a hardwired range between the "races". The only thing out there are shotty studies that use inconsistent and questionable methods, by people who aren't even experts in the field.
    well. we can always take real life evidence. The evidence points to black people being failures at all levels, in all places of the world. I'll give examples

    Black people are more likely to be in prison
    Black familiese are horribly broken
    Black neighborhoods are filled with crime
    Black cities inherit all the problems of black neighborhoods as well as having broken city budgets (look at Detroit)
    Black countries are crap. Countries that were prospering under colonialism or apartheid are breaking down to extreme forms of poverty without their white benefactors.

    The fact is, is that black people prosper no-where on this earth. Racism or colonialism isn't sufficient to explain this because other countries that were also colonized and have non-white populations are prospering in their own way.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Majad; 2013-01-29 at 09:10 PM.

  5. #765
    Immortal Dezerte's Avatar
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    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

    The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.

  6. #766
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seta-san View Post
    well. we can always take real life evidence. The evidence points to black people being failures at all levels, in all places of the world. I'll give examples

    Black people are more likely to be in prison
    Black familiese are horribly broken
    Black neighborhoods are filled with crime
    Black cities inherit all the problems of black neighborhoods as well as having broken city budgets (look at Detroit)
    Black countries are crap. Countries that were prospering under colonialism or apartheid are breaking down to extreme forms of poverty without their white benefactors.

    The fact is, is that black people prosper no-where on this earth. Racism or colonialism isn't sufficient to explain this because other countries that were also colonized and have non-white populations are prospering in their own way.
    Wrong. The correct statement is 'poor people are more likely to be in prison, commit crime, have broken families'. White people in similar socioeconomic circumstances have pretty much identical incidences of violence and crime.

    You're also vastly oversimplifying. Africa was the most recently colonized and deconolized of the continents, of course it's going to be worse off.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  7. #767
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    That's a matter that's up for debate, but I'd rather not, I'm not much of an expert on the subject either(I may have misused that phrase). The phenotypes are still there, whether you believe that brain size is related to IQ or not.
    It's not really up for debate though, as those terms are considered archaic by the greater scientific community. Even with those who argue on the side that's opposite of mine. Raw brain size btw, varies more by sex than it does by geographic population or "race". Brain size and intelligence are only related when the brain size is abnormally large or small for a human’s body-mass, indicting malnurishment, mental disabilities, or physical deformity. Brain structures matter far more than encephalization quotients. The capacity for language (one of the few universal requirements for intelligence in humans that separates us from animals according to many) is rooted in brain structures, neural pathways, the connections between axons, and other important physiological requirements.

  8. #768
    Quote Originally Posted by Booshman View Post
    Most wasn't slave "trading". It was just enslaving "period", to bolster their own societies. And what was actually done TO the slaves was far different and less harsh than chattel slavery. Socieities like the Akan, Yoruba, and Benin put harsh penalties on anyone who injured slaves and (especially in the case of the last one) allowed them to become prominent members of the society after their work debt was paid off. To the point that they would become (I guess you can call it or simplicities sake) a "duke" where they would be given property and would own land. In addition to being granted a respectable title and responsibilities, pending their role.
    Actually, no. Most of that was buying slaves from locals and shipping them away. Sure; not all African civilizations were so crude and nasty... But a fair number of them wás. You can try to sugar-coat it all you want, but the Mayans ate people and burned down rainforests, the Zulus traded in slaves, and the Norse made clothing out of Christians. We've all got things down the line of our ancestors that we're not proud of; maybe we shouldn't romanticize them too much.

  9. #769
    Mechagnome
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    It's just plain stupid to label those who address racial issues RACISTS, but that's how it goes on most internet resources.
    They just fear. That's a shame and the reason racial differences raise hatred in some cases.
    If it was allowed to speak freely - it would not grow teh hatred that much. When you feel you can not even discuss the point which concerns you, you feel everybody's against you and start hating.
    Don't worry, damn those who label you racist, unless they're a court.

  10. #770
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Oh, but brain size (to body mass ratio) is related to IQ.
    However, ex-utero socio-economic development is directly related to brain size, something a lot of people overlook.
    IIRC, underdevelopment of brain size is mostly a result of malnourishment during development. Brain size is also a product of genes, which is where this whole racism/race-realism disagreement is caused.
    If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

  11. #771
    Quote Originally Posted by Booshman View Post
    I know what we were talking about, but that doesn't refute what I said.
    I wasn't being smart. Just clarifying i am indeed talking about slave trading. That slaves had different "values" in different societies is a different matter.
    They were taken from villages, enslaved and sold.
    The Europeans in Africa weren't actually enslaving people as in "capturing" them themselves. They were dealing with the African elite, that was selling them already enslaved people.
    It's history, not opinions.

  12. #772
    Mechagnome
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    And also, here in Russia, we never had blacks as slaves, we never insulted them for just being black, that's why us calling them Black or the famous N-word is NOT AT ALL AN OFFENCE. It hurts to meet rage when you call them the N-word in the internet, not meaning ANYTHING bad.
    And we lol at those who call them afro-americans, for lol, they're propbably not even from america and good guys, why are they offended?

  13. #773
    Because people are idiots.

    It's okay to hold your own species in higher regard than other species; human-animals

    It's not okay to hold your sub-species in higher regard than the rest of the species; different ethnicities


    Double standard pave the way for a lot if not most people.

  14. #774
    Quote Originally Posted by seta-san View Post
    well. we can always take real life evidence. The evidence points to black people being failures at all levels, in all places of the world. I'll give examples

    Black people are more likely to be in prison
    Black familiese are horribly broken
    Black neighborhoods are filled with crime
    Black cities inherit all the problems of black neighborhoods as well as having broken city budgets (look at Detroit)
    Black countries are crap. Countries that were prospering under colonialism or apartheid are breaking down to extreme forms of poverty without their white benefactors.

    The fact is, is that black people prosper no-where on this earth. Racism or colonialism isn't sufficient to explain this because other countries that were also colonized and have non-white populations are prospering in their own way.
    While this may be true I expect you are going to find some harsh criticism in the next coming hours and somebody will mention the white man is the boogey man.

  15. #775
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Actually, no. Most of that was buying slaves from locals and shipping them away. Sure; not all African civilizations were so crude and nasty... But a fair number of them wás. You can try to sugar-coat it all you want, but the Mayans ate people and burned down rainforests, the Zulus traded in slaves, and the Norse made clothing out of Christians. We've all got things down the line of our ancestors that we're not proud of; maybe we shouldn't romanticize them too much.
    Actually the Zulu weren't that heavily invested in trading slaves to Europeans, when compared to Nigerian and Ghanaian groups. The two main groups who shipped the majority of the descendants of Black American and Afro-Brazilians. Your accusation that I'm "sugar-coating it" and "romanticizing things" is incorrect as I've already acknowledged that there was indeed trading going on.

  16. #776
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxymoronic View Post
    While this may be true I expect you are going to find some harsh criticism in the next coming hours and somebody will mention the white man is the boogey man.
    It's partially true; a bending of statistical probabilty, and bad logic (the conclusion is not supported by the premise).
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  17. #777
    Quote Originally Posted by Djalil View Post
    I wasn't being smart. Just clarifying i am indeed talking about slave trading. That slaves had different "values" in different societies is a different matter.
    They were taken from villages, enslaved and sold.
    The Europeans in Africa weren't actually enslaving people as in "capturing" them themselves. They were dealing with the African elite, that was selling them already enslaved people.
    It's history, not opinions.
    And that's still "enslaving them"....

  18. #778
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Wrong. The correct statement is 'poor people are more likely to be in prison, commit crime, have broken families'. White people in similar socioeconomic circumstances have pretty much identical incidences of violence and crime.

    You're also vastly oversimplifying. Africa was the most recently colonized and deconolized of the continents, of course it's going to be worse off.
    So what you are saying is that black people are almost inherently poor? It must be the oppression, right?

  19. #779
    Quote Originally Posted by Booshman View Post
    Most wasn't slave "trading". It was just enslaving "period", to bolster their own societies. And what was actually done TO the slaves was far different and less harsh than chattel slavery. Socieities like the Akan, Yoruba, and Benin put harsh penalties on anyone who injured slaves and (especially in the case of the last one) allowed them to become prominent members of the society after their work debt was paid off. To the point that they would become (I guess you can call it or simplicities sake) a "duke" where they would be given property and would own land. In addition to being granted a respectable title and responsibilities, pending their role.
    Societies like who? And where are they now? I rest my case.

  20. #780
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    IIRC, underdevelopment of brain size is mostly a result of malnourishment during development. Brain size is also a product of genes, which is where this whole racism/race-realism disagreement is caused.
    Well; it's not entirely true.
    I would again like to refer to 'We are our Brains,' a book written by Dick Swaab, who also touches on the point of brain development and the effects of neglect, solitude and information (or a lack thereof). The brain needs to do things in order to develop. The less it has to do, the less it physically develops.
    Last edited by Stir; 2013-01-29 at 02:55 PM.

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