Is being a racist really a big deal?

[matt4pack]

Well I hate everyone equally so no one can call me racist.

[Wildtree]

Well I hate everyone equally so no one can call me racist.

You are misanthropist..

[devilbesideyou]

This post gave me fucking cancer. This is the most moronic agenda driven blabbering i have every seen. What power does a racist redneck have?

Racism is when intolerance in government laws, attitudes and ideals of a society are ingrained in a culture to the point where patterns of discrimination towards a certain race are institutionalized as normal. If you keep this in mind, you’ll understand that reverse racism doesn’t- and can’t- exist.

Why not? I’ll break it down simpler. Those black kids did not have a whole system of structured support backing them.There is a saying ‘Racism (or sexism) = prejudice + power.’ POC (people of color) can be prejudiced against white people. But they can never have power, i.e. that system of structured support. White people can never call someone else racist against them because that ‘someone else’ does not have the power to OPPRESS them. The person has the power to be mean. To hurt feelings, as happened in your case. But not to OPPRESS.

THAT is the key difference. When a POC is mean to you, they are JUST being mean to you. Their entire POPULATION is not ACTIVELY discriminating against and oppressing you. The entire school, or the entire area might have been discriminating against you. But the American SOCIETY as a whole- the attitudes, laws and ideals of said society- are not against you. What you went through is terrible, and bullying, and discriminatory. But it’s not RACISM. Again, none of this will be believed by you unless you understand that the dictionary definition is limited.

I thought of an example to help you understand. Whether or not you believe thin people have privilege is not the point here, remember that. Because whether or not you believe that or want to admit it, you have to know that fat people are treated with disgust and shame by society, and- importantly- by the media. If a thin person goes to a majority-fat school, and is picked on for being too skinny or having chicken legs, that is bullying. It is mean. But the thin person is not actively being oppressed by society.See the difference? The thin person will never have the magazines, TV shows, movies, interviews and doctors all deliberately trying to shame them.

[Raiju]

Italic on your whole post is annoying to read, and since when did we get to define racism for ourselves? Use a set definition before you say there's no such thing as discrimination by "POC". I also have no idea why you included American there. Nothing to do with it at all.

[Cybran]

Racism is when intolerance in government laws, attitudes and ideals of a society are ingrained in a culture to the point where patterns of discrimination towards a certain race are institutionalized as normal. If you keep this in mind, you’ll understand that reverse racism doesn’t- and can’t- exist.

Why not? I’ll break it down simpler. Those black kids did not have a whole system of structured support backing them.There is a saying ‘Racism (or sexism) = prejudice + power.’ POC (people of color) can be prejudiced against white people. But they can never have power, i.e. that system of structured support. White people can never call someone else racist against them because that ‘someone else’ does not have the power to OPPRESS them. The person has the power to be mean. To hurt feelings, as happened in your case. But not to OPPRESS.

THAT is the key difference. When a POC is mean to you, they are JUST being mean to you. Their entire POPULATION is not ACTIVELY discriminating against and oppressing you. The entire school, or the entire area might have been discriminating against you. But the American SOCIETY as a whole- the attitudes, laws and ideals of said society- are not against you. What you went through is terrible, and bullying, and discriminatory. But it’s not RACISM. Again, none of this will be believed by you unless you understand that the dictionary definition is limited.

I thought of an example to help you understand. Whether or not you believe thin people have privilege is not the point here, remember that. Because whether or not you believe that or want to admit it, you have to know that fat people are treated with disgust and shame by society, and- importantly- by the media. If a thin person goes to a majority-fat school, and is picked on for being too skinny or having chicken legs, that is bullying. It is mean. But the thin person is not actively being oppressed by society.See the difference? The thin person will never have the magazines, TV shows, movies, interviews and doctors all deliberately trying to shame them.

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/cerd.htm

Racism and racial discrimination are often used to describe discrimination on an ethnic or cultural basis, independent of whether these differences are described as racial. According to the United Nations convention, there is no distinction between the terms racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination, and superiority based on racial differentiation is scientifically false, morally condemnable, socially unjust and dangerous, and that there is no justification for racial discrimination, in theory or in practice, anywhere.

You can't change the definition of words with the intention of furthering your agenda. What you said it total bullshit. You are wrong. People who claim minorities can't be racist are nothing more then Supremacists.

[devilbesideyou]

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/cerd.htm



You can't change the definition of words with the intention of furthering your agenda. What you said it total bullshit. You are wrong. People who claim minorities can't be racist are nothing more then Supremacists.

I already know about that, fat difference it makes isn't it? How can that even be helping when poverty across the USA is so unequal between people of color (PoC) and whites?

Same argument people make about the black president of the USA - "surely racism is not an issue anymore since there is a black president!". You are so ignorant of racist issues it is a joke. Go back to your privileged white bubble.

It is scary when lovely white people such as yourself quote it, as if it is all okay now. No dear, it isn't. If anything it has worsened because people like you think its all over and we can all have a nice cup of tea, and talk about black history month.

---------- Post added 2013-01-28 at 03:23 PM ----------

Italic on your whole post is annoying to read, and since when did we get to define racism for ourselves? Use a set definition before you say there's no such thing as discrimination by "POC". I also have no idea why you included American there. Nothing to do with it at all.

I did not say discrimination by POC (people of color) did not exist. Of course it does! But it is different as per the last paragraph in my post which you have failed to address.

[Deleted]

We've became obsessed with the Negro/black issue, because of it's misuse to the extreme.
If we look back.... For the longest time, the term used for this ethnic group was Moor. All over Europe that was the politically correct term. As time progressed, Negro came to use, coexisted, or often replaced it. And everything was fine..

There's a German candy.. Almost every German loves it. It's called either Moor's Head, or Negro's Kiss.


Recently, about some 10 - 15 years ago, there's really a minority of people making a big deal out of it. Challenging the name of the candy racist..
I want to bring that up, because racism can very well become a paranoid perversion. Which in this case it clearly is.
No one ever had any racist thoughts about that yummy piece. And it's popularity comes entirely from the fact of how it tastes and not because most Germans are white and hate blacks..[COLOR="red"]

Since you're from Germany, I'm sure you've noticed the big discussion about removing some allegedly 'offensive' words from old children's books. The greatest shitstorm was started by the removal of the word 'Neger' (Negro). So, while some ppl complain about this being overly politically correct, I actually approve this action.

Now I know, it's a word that has been used for a long time for blacks/coloreds in the German language (same as Mohr/Moor before that). Just think of the Sarotti-Mohr. Still, the meaning of this word has since been contaminated. While it was just a term to call out a certain group of people, the main usage now is to offend. Maybe not by you personally, but by enough people to be considered racist and wrong. So there's a pretty good reason for removing such words from old books imho. Same goes for the Negerkuss/Negrokiss.

I'm colored and I live in Germany. While I myself am (mostly) not offended by this word, I still understand the concerns. I don't think it's paranoid, I think it's considerate. And what's wrong with that?

------------

Being a proud German and called a Nazi equals being a believing muslim and being called a terrorist/islamist/extremist. I agree, it's plain stupid. But maybe it's wrong to be proud of being born in any way the wrong concept whatsoever? Why should I be proud of being German? Why should I be proud of being American? Why should I be proud of being Black/White/Colored? It's not really my achievement, I'm just born that way. Nothing to be proud of. I'm HAPPY that I grew up in a good and stable economy with all of its conveniences, but not proud of it. What I'm proud of is that I grew up to be a decent human being with a good job and that I have people around me who actually care about me. I think you get the point.

Not trying to piss on your rug here, I get why ppl say they're proud of their nationality, but I guess in a lot of cases that's the root of all evil.

greetz, MAD

[devilbesideyou]

Since you're from Germany, I'm sure you've noticed the big discussion about removing some allegedly 'offensive' words from old children's books. The greatest shitstorm was started by the removal of the word 'Neger' (Negro). So, while some ppl complain about this being overly politically correct, I actually approve this action.

Now I know, it's a word that has been used for a long time for blacks/coloreds in the German language (same as Mohr/Moor before that). Just think of the Sarotti-Mohr. Still, the meaning of this word has since been contaminated. While it was just a term to call out a certain group of people, the main usage now is to offend. Maybe not by you personally, but by enough people to be considered racist and wrong. So there's a pretty good reason for removing such words from old books imho. Same goes for the Negerkuss/Negrokiss.

I'm colored and I live in Germany. While I myself am (mostly) not offended by this word, I still understand the concerns. I don't think it's paranoid, I think it's considerate. And what's wrong with that?

------------

Being a proud German and called a Nazi equals being a believing muslim and being called a terrorist/islamist/extremist. I agree, it's plain stupid. But maybe it's wrong to be proud of being born in any way the wrong concept whatsoever? Why should I be proud of being German? Why should I be proud of being American? Why should I be proud of being Black/White/Colored? It's not really my achievement, I'm just born that way. Nothing to be proud of. I'm HAPPY that I grew up in a good and stable economy with all of its conveniences, but not proud of it. What I'm proud of is that I grew up to be a decent human being with a good job and that I have people around me who actually care about me. I think you get the point.

Not trying to piss on your rug here, I get why ppl say they're proud of their nationality, but I guess in a lot of cases that's the root of all evil.

greetz, MAD

I agree with what you said on the word "Negro". I would never use this word, ever. Even if I know the original word was just to describe something dark/black, the usage changed in history when it was used offensively by white people to oppress black people. Since then I believe black people have reclaimed this word and only they can freely use it among themselves. It is empowering for them to use it, they are "taking back what is theirs". No other person other than a black person should be using this word.

[Noomz]

Good enough...... yet I see it as intolerance, not necessarily as racism.

Example.... A Christian Extremist may have zero problem with some random person who happens to be black of color, be from a random African Nation, and the person's social status is also irrelevant to that Christian. And the moment he learns that said African is gay he hates him...
It's intolerance in it's purest form.

Just like I know for a fact that many Germans have a problem with Turks, and people from countries behind the former iron curtain, to come to Germany and live there now. That is incredibly ignorant. That isn't racist. Why is it not? Because they don't hate them... They are perfectly fine with them, as long as they stay where they belong to, or if they only visit as tourists. They hate them to stay in Germany, because they believe that the foreigner interferes with their own lives.
Intolerance in it's purest form here too.
In case of Turks it actually pisses me off to a great deal. Because those above all others helped the most to bring the country back out of the ashes and rubble it's been in after the War. They were good enough to help us, and now they're suddenly not welcome anymore?
Only intolerant assholes can think like that. And half those assholes go to Turkey on vacation to get cheap hashish, a nice bath, and hot chicks.. hypocrite morons.. Not racists.

You're right, ofcourse. Extremism might not always be a negative thing either. The essence of a good society is to tolerate other peoples practices without enforcing your own set of beliefs upon those that don't share them. This is why we have democracy, so that everyone have a chance to influence society around them. Extremism is often destructive though.

But there definetly are cultures around the world that I don't blame people for disliking, like the example you make with Turks. Many of them have a lot of attitude and are very "macho", it's often such things that people react to and that in itself isn't racist. I can admit that I hate some cultures, but I have nothing against people because of the color of their skin.
Like how someone in the US might not like rappers and rapper culture, and most people who embrace that culture happen to be of African descent, in other words black. That makes people think they are racist for not liking the rapper culture, just because many in it are black.

In some manners, people bring their culture with them, and when such people show no will to conform to their new country's culture and social rules, they often face dislike and "intolerance". That's not to say that some of these cultures aren't bad either, like the "honor" crimes committed by some Muslim immigrants. Some may even refuse to learn the new language, and many I'm sad to say, sustain an unhealthy and oppressive family structure and view on other people.
One of many reasons people dislike gypsies as well. Groups that actively avoid becoming part of a country get badly treated, because they are intolerant.

I could probably write a lot more about it, but I feel I'm making less and less sense

[Ebildays]

If you are a proud black, jew, asian, then good for you. If you are a proud European then you are racist. If you are a proud Arab then you are a terrorist. The people who act with this mindset are the true racists imo.

Blame the White Power Movement for that, for the most part. The other part is you are damn right it is great to be white and I don't need you rubbing it in my face. Just look at this board and the image that a lot of people have of black people, violent, scary, murders, and etc. Are you telling me you would be proud to say you are black in the face of that? So we started things like Black History Month to show ourselves that we do have something to be proud of. That while we do not look like the standard of beauty we to are beautiful in our own way.

Every day white people numerous examples of how good it is to be white them everyday. The same is not true for non-whites and just because you may not notice it does not mean it is not happening. I mean really the only time it is good to be black is when it comes to sports or as a black male sex.

[Noomz]

Racism is when intolerance in government laws, attitudes and ideals of a society are ingrained in a culture to the point where patterns of discrimination towards a certain race are institutionalized as normal. If you keep this in mind, you’ll understand that reverse racism doesn’t- and can’t- exist.

Why not? I’ll break it down simpler. Those black kids did not have a whole system of structured support backing them.There is a saying ‘Racism (or sexism) = prejudice + power.’ POC (people of color) can be prejudiced against white people. But they can never have power, i.e. that system of structured support. White people can never call someone else racist against them because that ‘someone else’ does not have the power to OPPRESS them. The person has the power to be mean. To hurt feelings, as happened in your case. But not to OPPRESS.

THAT is the key difference. When a POC is mean to you, they are JUST being mean to you. Their entire POPULATION is not ACTIVELY discriminating against and oppressing you. The entire school, or the entire area might have been discriminating against you. But the American SOCIETY as a whole- the attitudes, laws and ideals of said society- are not against you. What you went through is terrible, and bullying, and discriminatory. But it’s not RACISM. Again, none of this will be believed by you unless you understand that the dictionary definition is limited.

I thought of an example to help you understand. Whether or not you believe thin people have privilege is not the point here, remember that. Because whether or not you believe that or want to admit it, you have to know that fat people are treated with disgust and shame by society, and- importantly- by the media. If a thin person goes to a majority-fat school, and is picked on for being too skinny or having chicken legs, that is bullying. It is mean. But the thin person is not actively being oppressed by society.See the difference? The thin person will never have the magazines, TV shows, movies, interviews and doctors all deliberately trying to shame them.

South Africa would like to disagree with you. Did you ever hear about all the trouble down in Africa that white people got some years ago? People got killed, their homes burned down etc, just because they were white and happened to have inherited large properties.

That you cannot be racist against white people is a ridiculous notion. I find it quite offensive that you think I'm a powerabusing, hatemongering and intolerant person just because I'm white.

---------- Post added 2013-01-28 at 04:43 PM ----------

Blame the White Power Movement for that, for the most part. The other part is you are damn right it is great to be white and I don't need you rubbing it in my face. Just look at this board and the image that a lot of people have of black people, violent, scary, murders, and etc. Are you telling me you would be proud to say you are black in the face of that? So we started things like Black History Month to show ourselves that we do have something to be proud of. That while we do not look like the standard of beauty we to are beautiful in our own way.

Every day white people numerous examples of how good it is to be white them everyday. The same is not true for non-whites and just because you may not notice it does not mean it is not happening. I mean really the only time it is good to be black is when it comes to sports or as a black male sex.

I don't think anyone here says you aren't allowed pride in your heritage. Personally, I think it's regretable that we segregate such pride and heritage by the color of our skin, that we can't feel pride for things as what we are: One big human race. I think a black man should be able to be as proud of anything a white man is proud of, and such.

[Deleted]

I agree with what you said on the word "Negro". I would never use this word, ever. Even if I know the original word was just to describe something dark/black, the usage changed in history when it was used offensively by white people to oppress black people. Since then I believe black people have reclaimed this word and only they can freely use it among themselves. It is empowering for them to use it, they are "taking back what is theirs". No other person other than a black person should be using this word.

Fun fact: Because I'm mixed and therefore obviously not 'pure white' or 'pure black', I find myself sometimes in a stalemate situation. Sure, since I live in Germany, I came in touch with my fair share of racist Nazis, but on (very) few occasions with stupid blacks, too. Not too long ago me and a (black) friend of mine got pretty wasted and we went by a club visited mostly by African people gone gangster. As he was a few steps ahead I said something along the lines of 'Wait up, Ni**a!!', which was meant jokingly, by all means.

Still, a whole bunch of guys came out of the club to confront ME, because they we're offended by me using that word. They actually wanted to beat me up. It was a weird situation to me, since they didn't consider me as 'one of theirs' either due to my mixed heritage. Intolerance isn't limited to white men, not at all.

[Maxilian]

Oh God this OP...

Some straight guys are very macho... are they fake too and do you hate them? Some gays are very feminine. You know what that means? That's how they are, they're not fake, some are some aren't, some people are very macho because they are and some fake it. You do know there is a recognized speech pattern for gay males right? Multiple reasons for why but it does exist and some people go about and and consciously change the way they speak to sound more "normal" more "straight" there is an acting coach in California who teaches tons of people how to speak more straight, even straight guys.

I mean I am English and I speak in a slight slight English accent almost all the time, but when I am not thinking about it or who I am talking to I will sound as though I just came off the plane. Am I fake?

Is just like Themius say, sometimes people change their voices or their way they act depending the situation, or maybe the for X or Y reason they change their voice, for example: when i talk with someone that have an accent i start talking with an accent and i don't notice that (my brother point that out a lot) also sometimes i act a little girly (i hate when i do that) but i don't notice and when i notice i try to change acting as manly as i can... just because i don't like to act that way.

[Felya]

Still, a whole bunch of guys came out of the club to confront ME, because they we're offended by me using that word. They actually wanted to beat me up. It was a weird situation to me, since they didn't consider me as 'one of theirs' either due to my mixed heritage. Intolerance isn't limited to white men, not at all.

The issue wasn't mixed harritage, but you using the 'n-word'... Intolerance over a word is wholly different than over race. As in, one is racism and the other one is not...

[WeaponXAnimosity]

Of course racism isn't a big deal. The Civil Rights Movement was just a huge block party. /sarcasm

[Deleted]

The issue wasn't mixed harritage, but you using the 'n-word'... Intolerance over a word is wholly different than over race. As in, one is racism and the other one is not...

Nope, it was about me saying it, not about the word per se, since they used it like there were no tomorrow. That's what baffled me.

[Noomz]

Since you're from Germany, I'm sure you've noticed the big discussion about removing some allegedly 'offensive' words from old children's books. The greatest shitstorm was started by the removal of the word 'Neger' (Negro). So, while some ppl complain about this being overly politically correct, I actually approve this action.

Now I know, it's a word that has been used for a long time for blacks/coloreds in the German language (same as Mohr/Moor before that). Just think of the Sarotti-Mohr. Still, the meaning of this word has since been contaminated. While it was just a term to call out a certain group of people, the main usage now is to offend. Maybe not by you personally, but by enough people to be considered racist and wrong. So there's a pretty good reason for removing such words from old books imho. Same goes for the Negerkuss/Negrokiss.

I'm colored and I live in Germany. While I myself am (mostly) not offended by this word, I still understand the concerns. I don't think it's paranoid, I think it's considerate. And what's wrong with that?

------------

Being a proud German and called a Nazi equals being a believing muslim and being called a terrorist/islamist/extremist. I agree, it's plain stupid. But maybe it's wrong to be proud of being born in any way the wrong concept whatsoever? Why should I be proud of being German? Why should I be proud of being American? Why should I be proud of being Black/White/Colored? It's not really my achievement, I'm just born that way. Nothing to be proud of. I'm HAPPY that I grew up in a good and stable economy with all of its conveniences, but not proud of it. What I'm proud of is that I grew up to be a decent human being with a good job and that I have people around me who actually care about me. I think you get the point.

Not trying to piss on your rug here, I get why ppl say they're proud of their nationality, but I guess in a lot of cases that's the root of all evil.

greetz, MAD

We have that discussion here in Sweden as well. Some people found a brand of candy to be racist against chinese people because it shows a caricature of a chinese man with a straw hat and thin eyes, so the makes of the candy actually caved in and changed it. Ridiculous, because it's not an intentionally racist thing, it was a caricature, a joke.
It's a bit like making some candy that is British-inspired and put a guy on the package that has bad teeth. Except no-one would call that racist.

I think people say that racism against white people doesn't happen because white people often make so much jokes about on another that trying to be racist against someone that is white simply won't work. We just don't care about it.

I agree with you, national pride is strange. But many feel pride in being part of a culture or a larger thing. Ofcourse, such things are taken to extremes by some people, which sadly puts a taboo on national pride in some countries.

[Deleted]

Since you're from Germany, I'm sure you've noticed the big discussion about removing some allegedly 'offensive' words from old children's books. The greatest shitstorm was started by the removal of the word 'Neger' (Negro). So, while some ppl complain about this being overly politically correct, I actually approve this action.

Now, I don't want to be rude by calling them "Negro's Kiss" or "Moor's Head" but that's how they've been called almost my entire childhood. How else shall I call them? "Dickmann's", because they are the prime manufacturer? :/

[Felya]

Nope, it was about me saying it, not about the word per se, since they used it like there were no tomorrow. That's what baffled me.

They didn't have a problem with your race if you didn't say it. If you didn't say, would there been a problem? Did saying it change your race? I can call my friends OTB, but if someone passing us used the same term, without knowing the context of a passer by it seems insulting.

[Tekkommo]

It's pretty bad to judge someone by their race, it can also be hard not to with so many stereotypes spread around.

Scottish people are meant known to be tight with their money, I can say this is far from the truth for many people I know, but it's also true for some people I know.

Every country in the world has idiots, nice people, evil people, poor people, rich people, middle class, the list goes on. To instantly think someone is a certain way and all you have to judge them on is their race, is pretty pathetic. I think you would be surprised how many people are 'normal' (I use the term 'normal' loosely).