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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    I think you just answered your own statement with that link, completely contradicting yourself in process. Try reading both columns properly next time.
    I didn't include sub +2200 because that's all that really matters, but if you want then fine Ret is 3rd in representation for all RBGs. Feel better now that your spec has even more representation than it did just moments earlier?

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Dedweight View Post
    Why can't you? Is there some talent in the Ret spec that makes you physically incapable of typing that exact phrase? doesn't mean you would have any easier of a time getting in the group but you could still do it.
    The whole spec, compared to Warrior or DK, makes you physically incapable of joining a proper RPG team, unless you have connections. Stop trying to be a smartass please.

  3. #23
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    I didn't include sub +2200 because that's all that really matters, but if you want then fine Ret is 3rd in representation for all RBGs. Feel better now that your spec has even more representation than it did just moments earlier?
    How the hell is that what really matters? Ok for dummies:

    Step1 : Default failspec is when overall %age is bigger than +2200 rating one. Basically 2200%/overall% smaller the number bigger the failure.

    Step2: You look at overall number and figure out how many of those interested or have some relevance of participation in RBGs are stuck in the "sailing the Failboat" spec business. That's to see the >magnitude< of the failure (aka total number of screwed people).

    Step3: Pures (yes classes) don't need more than 1 relevant spec to be succesfull to validate their competence. Tanks have no real use or purpose in RBG world outside of carrying a flag, which can be done by anything else really.

    Result: Yes ret is >the worst< there is.
    Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-01-28 at 05:49 PM.
    WoW = Retired Main: Ret Alt(s): War , DK

    Diablo3

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Neldarie View Post
    How the hell is that what really matters? Ok for dummies:

    Step1 : Default failspec is when overall %age is bigger than +2200 rating one. Basically 2200%/overall% smaller the number bigger the failure.

    Step2: You look at overall number and figure out how many of those interested or have some relevance of participation in RBGs are stuck in the "sailing the Failboat" spec business. That's to see the >magnitude< of the failure (aka total number of screwed people).

    Step3: Pures (yes classes) don't need more than 1 relevant spec to be succesfull to validate their competence. Tanks have no real use or purpose in RBG world outside of carrying a flag, which can be done by anything else really.

    Result: Yes ret is >the worst< there is.
    For reference, here is how the actual ratios look comparatively (separated by relevant roles, ranged, melee, healer; the higher numbers are better):

    Arms Warriors: 3.95
    Holy Paladins: 2.875
    Frost Mages: 2.17
    BM Hunthers: 1.32
    Resto Shamans: 2.16
    Shadow Priests: 1.5
    Resto Druids: 1.08
    Frost DKs: 0.958
    Destruction Warlocks: 1.428
    Subtlety Rogues: 1.53
    Feral Druids: 1.045
    Disc Priests: 1
    Ele Shamans: 0.7
    Balance Druids: 0.863
    Ret Paladins: 0.58
    Enhance Shaman: 0.58
    Mistweaver Monk: 0.61
    Windwalker Monk: 0.31
    Last edited by Reith; 2013-01-28 at 06:06 PM. Reason: Added monks.

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Yep, exactly and the fact that ret is a very >popular< spec from the numbers we see in that database it has very little to do with how compitent/incompitent it really is.

    Both popularity and effectiveness impact "well-represented" nonsensual concept. And I believe discussion here was about effectiveness and not some popularity contest.
    Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-01-28 at 06:40 PM.
    WoW = Retired Main: Ret Alt(s): War , DK

    Diablo3

  6. #26
    Not to mention...look at the classes beneath Ret on that chart. 95% of them aren't even viable at the moment. Holy/Disc priests. UH DKs. Ele shamans. Fury warriors. MM hunters. The list goes on.

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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    Not to mention...look at the classes beneath Ret on that chart. 95% of them aren't even viable at the moment. Holy/Disc priests. UH DKs. Ele shamans. Fury warriors. MM hunters. The list goes on.
    You can't argue that soundly. When a class has all ranged specs or all melee specs, they naturally gravitate towards the best spec because there isn't that much of a difference. They're the same role. Your point has been deflected.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    You can't argue that soundly. When a class has all ranged specs or all melee specs, they naturally gravitate towards the best spec because there isn't that much of a difference. They're the same role. Your point has been deflected.
    It works the same way for paladins though. If you want to do RBGs, you go holy. Plain and simple.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    It works the same way for paladins though. If you want to do RBGs, you go holy. Plain and simple.
    No. Completely different role. Completely different playstyle. Not the same. Too bad.

  10. #30
    Yeah cause holy is such a great dps spec... oh wait

  11. #31
    That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that most paladins that want to do RBGs WILL play holy. It's just the more viable spec.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  12. #32
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Pretty sure alot are already doing that if you look at ret-holy only %iles. Which is fine but as an argument about retribution spec its not. It's a work-around "fix". As someone stated earlier there are 3 roles in pvp mostly (ranged-melee-healer).


    Human beings tend to look for the shortest route to success, which is being efficient. And on a contrary doing that extra mile/haul feels more of an achievement when you accomplish things while at the disadvantage.
    Last edited by Neldarie; 2013-01-28 at 07:27 PM.
    WoW = Retired Main: Ret Alt(s): War , DK

    Diablo3

  13. #33
    The thing is that no matter how you spin it, the average RBG leader will almost always want a warrior or a DK over a ret paladin. We're too squishy, too bursty, and just not all around good enough to beat out other melee. As you see from the numbers, HPaladins are pretty well represented. Why take a subpar melee, when you can take an above average healer?

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  14. #34
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Then there is also another argument about "just go holy". Most classes don't need a new full set of gear when switching spec. So you are faced with logistical cluster#%&!. Currently from what I heard there is almost no way? to catch up with pvp gear halfway through the season seeing how you also need to invest into upgrading stuff.
    WoW = Retired Main: Ret Alt(s): War , DK

    Diablo3

  15. #35
    I'm not saying you will, because you won't. It's impossible. Trust me, I'm all for rets in RBGs and arenas, but we just aren't the best. Unless you're running with friends, or people who know you're a good player, the average PuG won't want you. Too much effort to carry a subpar class with a potentially bad player. It's unfortunate. I don't really do RBGs because I find them boring, but I struggle to find arena teams (and being from KT alliance, that's saying something) and it frustrates me for sure. Pretty much given up on this season.

    Sha of Fear Melee hit You 372908 Physical. (766625 Overkill) (Critical)
    Begging us to buff is sometimes easier than trying to beat the boss.(Source)

  16. #36
    I do sympathize with the Rets on this one, but I feel more sad towards Prot pallies in RBGs then Ret atm.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelln12 View Post
    I do sympathize with the Rets on this one, but I feel more sad towards Prot pallies in RBGs then Ret atm.
    Yeah considering flag-carrying is a serious part of rated PvP... it is completely ridiculous how imbalanced the different tank specs are for PvP. Hybrids are supposed to be about variety and choice, yet often we finds ourselves with less choices than pure specs and 2-role specs. Paladin? go Holy lol... Shaman? go resto lol... warrior? Arms or Prot, and Fury really isn't horrible either; mages can be somewhat viable as fire, not just frost; DKs often have several viable specs, blood is a good FC and Unholy and Frost take turns being pretty good; druids are pretty much the only ones that actually get to be real hybrids, and even then it's often pretty sketchy for them some seasons.
    Last edited by Tangra; 2013-01-28 at 10:15 PM.

  18. #38
    ret warrior disc / druid / shaman man

    open on a dps wait for warbringer to come back ... switch to healer with warbringer stun 3sec + hoj 6sec > shockwave for fun > belf silence for extra trolling
    ^ while doing lolret 15 second burst + warrior damage + ms

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Revvo View Post
    That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that most paladins that want to do RBGs WILL play holy. It's just the more viable spec.
    This one won't.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelln12 View Post
    I do sympathize with the Rets on this one, but I feel more sad towards Prot pallies in RBGs then Ret atm.
    I know that feel.

    I love playing node defense and FCing in RBG, as it was what I did in Vanilla grinding ranks on my warrior. I simply cannot do it in MoP as a pala, at least not as prot. Frankly, a HPal would be a better node defender and FC than Prot, which is saying something. I've got my DK and warr at 90 and in blue gear, and both run circles around my malev geared paladin. It's sad...if they at least gave paladins TWO viable specs (either ret OR prot....not trying to get greedy here) I'd be happy.

    Surprised. But happy.

    However, GC has said essentially "tanks are good enough and in a good place. any increase in their damage [due to veng] would make them unstoppable."...problem is, our survival as prot relies nearly entirely on vengeance to make SoI/BH and BoGWoG usable. Adding in battle fatigue is just a kick while we're down. I guess both spec's are "in a good place".
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