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  1. #1

    Any chance Orgrimmar will be moved post SoO?

    I was thinking this. At the core of this current HvA conflict is land and resources. The orcs continued push into Ashenvale is technically what started the fourth war. Everything Garrosh has done has been for the Orcs to thrive in better land. If the orcs simply remain in Durotar, another Garrosh will eventually rise.

    So, anyone think that Orgrimmar may be destroyed in the siege, and the Orcs are forced to relocate? Or maybe druids and shaman will band together post seige and make Durotar fertile (more likely imo)

  2. #2
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    The night elves not willing to trade with the orcs is what started the 4th war. They either attacked Ashenvale or they starve to death. Even thrall would have done the same thing if his people were going to starve to death.

    On topic: no i can not see org moving. I can how ever see the Druid and shammies making it a better place to live so the orcs can farm in there own land.
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  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
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    Garrosh's ultimate goal was to conquer Ashenvale and build a new capital there (I would guess among the cliffs of Demon Fall Canyon, where his father killed Mannoroth). It would probably be named Grommashar, I think.

    But obviously his goal to rule the world will fail, so it's pretty unlikely. Varian's plan in Tides of War is to occupy Orgrimmar only until the Horde rebels oust Garrosh from power and reclaim the city.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Garrosh's ultimate goal was to conquer Ashenvale and build a new capital there (I would guess among the cliffs of Demon Fall Canyon, where his father killed Mannoroth). It would probably be named Grommashar, I think.
    Ooh, good idea...

    No, I doubt Orgrimmar will be moved. I'm hoping it doesn't even get too damaged, considering that it's going to be fixed in 5.2.

    Wouldn't mind some future Warcraft setting to have a Horde city in Ashenvale/Stonetalon though.

  5. #5
    Game mechanics pretty much dictate that the city will remain in it's current location with only mild alterations. Blizzard isn't going to be redoing Azeroth again anytime soon, so there is only so much about the city that can change without breaking a whole bunch of other areas.

    From a purely lore perspective, I don't think the rise of another Garrosh is inevitable if they stay. With enough irrigation they could probably turn half of Durotar into viable farmland. Combined with resources from Azshara and items they can acquire via trade, there is little reason that Orgrimmar couldn't become very prosperous in the long run.
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  6. #6
    Field Marshal Cloud2038's Avatar
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    This is a very interesting topic. However the OP was correct in that the orcs started the 4th war. NOT the NE's being unwilling to trade. The orcs killed their god and have been cutting down their sacred forest since they founded Org. What reason would they have to trade with them?

    Slightly more on topic: I can see your reasoning to move the city or try to help them out. But in the end, Orcs will be Orcs and ultimately another Garrosh will rise to power whether they have abundant resources or not. IMO the Alliance made a grave mistake in putting the Orcs in camps to begin with. They came here not to take the lands of the Azerothians but instead to eradicate all life on the planet. If the Orcs genuinely surrendered after the 2nd war then the Alliance should have deported them back to Outlands. Anyway, since that didn't happen then the Alliance will still have the opportunity to do it after the Siege of Orgrimmar. The other Horde races do not really have reasons to be at war with the Alliance if orcs were no longer involved save for maybe the Forsaken. In fact the Tauren have a lot in common with a couple Alliances races when it comes to religious beliefs and peaceful attitude.

    That being said I guess I could see the destruction of Orgrimmar to solidify the destruction of the corrupt horde. There would no longer be a need for it if the Orcs were deported back to outland where they could be free to do whatever they wanted. The other races have their own capitals and the ones that do not could easily make their own special ones or just live with their allies.

    I would be completely ok with the druids and shamans helping to create a fertile land for Org in most cases. But, as history has proved, the Orcs cannot be trusted. They are too quick to anger and violence. Their warmongering has always been their downfall. Eradicating them completely with genocide is obviously the wrong way to handle it and that is why I suggest deporting them to their own home planet, which isn't even a punishment for them. Azeroth isn't their home. You could say the same about the Dranei, but, they are relatively peaceful and beneficial to Azeroth. That's the key difference.

    Rant over lol. (Sorry for being long-winded. Ideas just kept popping into my head).

  7. #7
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Garrosh's ultimate goal was to conquer Ashenvale and build a new capital there (I would guess among the cliffs of Demon Fall Canyon, where his father killed Mannoroth). It would probably be named Grommashar, I think.

    But obviously his goal to rule the world will fail, so it's pretty unlikely. Varian's plan in Tides of War is to occupy Orgrimmar only until the Horde rebels oust Garrosh from power and reclaim the city.
    Very good idea there good sir.

  8. #8
    Banned Trassk's Avatar
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    It honestly would make no sense having orgrimmar remain where it is, lorewise. Why would the city remain as the capital of the horde if both sides are going to raid it and be rid of Garrosh. The raid will symbolize both Garrosh's tyranny and how bad its gotten for the horde.

    The orcs and the horde should get a new capital. Maybe in the barrens.

    The only issue if, instead of having something like this for what makes sense storywise, blizzard will just say 'meh, can't be bothered', since it would take them effort to go back to the old world and make a new city for the horde.

    Its funny how they have no issue destroying cities or landscapes, like theramore, but when it comes to building new ones in vanilla zones now they don't really care.

  9. #9
    I would like Orgrimmar to change, i mean, it already changed on Cataclysm but that's definitely not enough for me, i want the landscape to be different.
    But it wont happen, too much work for Blizzard i guess, and the chances that devs are thinking to that kind of thing is very low.

    I would like to see a HUGE capital which cover the eastern part of Ashenvale like this : with large paths, i would like it to be more "chamanic", symbol of an appeased Horde.

    With a giant gobelin themed port, and a great lighthouse made of scorias & junks ! I also imagine a giant airport for Zep's between the gob themed zone, the "old" (actual) Orgrimmar and the "New" Orgrimmar.

    If only i could draw

  10. #10
    Banned Trassk's Avatar
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    Theres just one problem with that Kuragalolz, theres a moonwell in that area of ashenvale, and night elves get bitchy about anyone peeing in there moonwells.

    Also, Grom is buried there, and the area is still pretty tainted by demons all over. They'd have to build around Groms resting place and frankly, after Garrosh, i'm wishing that to be the end of the name hellscream.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    The night elves not willing to trade with the orcs is what started the 4th war. They either attacked Ashenvale or they starve to death. Even thrall would have done the same thing if his people were going to starve to death.

    On topic: no i can not see org moving. I can how ever see the Druid and shammies making it a better place to live so the orcs can farm in there own land.
    Actually, NE/Horde agreements were being reached over lumber usage in Ashenvale until Garrosh stormed the forests by force. Why do you think the NEs were so unprepared for his attacks at first? They thought everything was gonna settle over peacefully. That is also the reason Cairne challenged Garrosh in his leadership of the horde- the attack was not only unprovoked, but undid what he had spent months working on. Its kinda funny, Garrosh was first all like "Yes Thrall, I shall head the advice of those who have more experience then me" but first thing he did as soon as Thrall had his back turned? Now, NOBODY in the horde likes him, except a small number of loyal, die-hard orcs who are fel-orc wannabes.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    It honestly would make no sense having orgrimmar remain where it is, lorewise. Why would the city remain as the capital of the horde if both sides are going to raid it and be rid of Garrosh. The raid will symbolize both Garrosh's tyranny and how bad its gotten for the horde.

    The orcs and the horde should get a new capital. Maybe in the barrens.

    The only issue if, instead of having something like this for what makes sense storywise, blizzard will just say 'meh, can't be bothered', since it would take them effort to go back to the old world and make a new city for the horde.

    Its funny how they have no issue destroying cities or landscapes, like theramore, but when it comes to building new ones in vanilla zones now they don't really care.
    From my knowledge of real history, it's incredibly rare for a capital city to be moved just because the previous regime became unpopular. In fact the new regime generally does everything it can to take control of, and rule from, the original capital so they can be seen as the legitimate rulers of the country. In fact off-hand I can't recall a single historical instance of a capital being moved due to a regime change.

    Orgrimmar, for better or worse, represents the center of the Horde. And abandoning the city because the Orcs are too emotionally sensitive to deal with reminders of Garrosh's reign would be kind of odd if you ask me.
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  13. #13
    Hate to burst all the hordies bubbles here, but, as of the Alliance questline in Ashenvale, the Horde have been defeated and Warsong Lumber camp destroyed. This takes place after the Horde's blitz into the forest. Durotar and Orgrimmar are fine where they are. Ashenvale is lost to you and in the hands of its natives, where it belongs.

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans MrHappy's Avatar
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    hmm if org does get demolished (even partially) i foresee Azshara becoming the big base so to speak. I mean it already has a Horde carved in the land with a giant cannon...don't see why this can't expand into a kick ass capital
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by gnlogic View Post
    hmm if org does get demolished (even partially) i foresee Azshara becoming the big base so to speak. I mean it already has a Horde carved in the land with a giant cannon...don't see why this can't expand into a kick ass capital
    What makes you think Orgrimmar is going to be demolished? Im sure Deathwing will have done more damage than this siege will.

  16. #16
    The Insane GennGreymane's Avatar
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    I know where they should move it

    TO HELL

    where all horde scum belong!

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    I know where they should move it

    TO HELL

    where all horde scum belong!
    Agreed. You sissy allies can keep the really real world. Horde should go and conquer hell and hang out with all the cool kids, like Arthas. And did i mention theres succubie there aswell?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Actually, NE/Horde agreements were being reached over lumber usage in Ashenvale until Garrosh stormed the forests by force. Why do you think the NEs were so unprepared for his attacks at first? They thought everything was gonna settle over peacefully. That is also the reason Cairne challenged Garrosh in his leadership of the horde- the attack was not only unprovoked, but undid what he had spent months working on. Its kinda funny, Garrosh was first all like "Yes Thrall, I shall head the advice of those who have more experience then me" but first thing he did as soon as Thrall had his back turned? Now, NOBODY in the horde likes him, except a small number of loyal, die-hard orcs who are fel-orc wannabes.
    Actually, the orcs in question that slaughtered and skinned the night elves were twilight cultists, not garrosh loyalists. They made it look like horde aggression in order to fuel the fires of war

  19. #19
    Immortal KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    The night elves not willing to trade with the orcs is what started the 4th war. They either attacked Ashenvale or they starve to death. Even thrall would have done the same thing if his people were going to starve to death.
    False. They were trading before Twilight's Hammer fucked it all up.

  20. #20
    Pandaren Monk Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    I know where they should move it

    TO HELL

    where all horde scum belong!
    So you want us to build a rocket ship and go to the Twisting Nether.....huh, might be a little herd but I think we could do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    False. They were trading before Twilight's Hammer fucked it all up.
    Yeah, but the King's reaction to blame Thrall was uncalled for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Hate to burst all the hordies bubbles here, but, as of the Alliance questline in Ashenvale, the Horde have been defeated and Warsong Lumber camp destroyed. This takes place after the Horde's blitz into the forest. Durotar and Orgrimmar are fine where they are. Ashenvale is lost to you and in the hands of its natives, where it belongs.
    You are not bursting any thing. We all know what happen. So you can calm down.
    Last edited by Solzan Nemesis; 2013-01-28 at 03:58 PM.

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