View Poll Results: Do you think Monks should have been OP?

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  • Yeah they should have been OP

    33 25.00%
  • No, their implementation was fine.

    99 75.00%
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  1. #1
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Should Monks have been OP when they were implemented?

    It appears that there's significant population issues in both PvE and PvP with the class. I barely see any Monks at level 90, and clearly the population was low enough in PvP for Blizzard to try to buff them in 5.2. I'd also be lying if I said that I haven't run across a few Monk friends who are having issues getting into guilds as tanks, DPS, and healers because of our bad reputation.

    Do you guys feel that Blizzard should have just implemented the class in an OP form and kept them OP for a few patches until the general population became used to them (ala Death Knights)?
    Last edited by Teriz; 2013-01-28 at 01:20 AM.

  2. #2
    Why is this even a topic? The DK overpowered start was a mistake. Blizzard employees have said so time and again.
    No class should be intentionally more powerful than the rest.. That's just incredibly poor game design. If you feel you don't see enough monks around, then maybe that's just your confirmation bias. If you're expecting half of the playerbase to now main monks, then you're logically wrong.

    Honestly.

  3. #3
    Pit Lord Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    If your friends are having trouble getting into guilds because of monks having a "bad reputation" then the guilds they're applying to are not worth it.

    The low population is also due to the fact that monks level from 1 rather than 55 so it's a distinct time investment; in addition this expac isn't nearly as alt-friendly as Cata.

    Basically - no, there's absolutely no reason to have another OP new class.
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  4. #4
    Overpowered no. Easier to switch to from your main yeah.

  5. #5
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    If your friends are having trouble getting into guilds because of monks having a "bad reputation" then the guilds they're applying to are not worth it.
    Well I also have friends in guilds who are being pressured to switch out their Monks and go to other classes. I largely agree with your statement, but the problem is that the class is still new to the game. Its easy to deal with an older class having perceived performance issues, but if a new class is perceived as weak, its problems are amplified.

    The low population is also due to the fact that monks level from 1 rather than 55 so it's a distinct time investment; in addition this expac isn't nearly as alt-friendly as Cata.
    True, which could be an argument for making the class a bit more powerful so that the playerbase would be more apt to give the new class a try. Especially if the new class is one of the selling points of the new expansion. People aren't going to go back from level 1-90 to play a class that is viewed as potentially sub-par.

  6. #6
    MW are certainly viable, esp. with the buffs in 5.2 and the heavy raidwide damage, at least in 25m. So...as well as WW being buffed. So maybe BrM? They're certainly overshadowed and there are less tank spots available for their utility to make itself worthwhile, however I'm not sure they're cons are worse than their positives. IMO, if a guild is pressuring you to switch then that guild doesn't really know what they're doing.

    Many of the H25m guilds either leveled or recruited MW monks for raiding, they were extremely powerful for the majority of this tier before being nerfed into being slightly ahead on throughput with the only utility being personal survivability.

  7. #7
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnorrior View Post
    MW are certainly viable, esp. with the buffs in 5.2 and the heavy raidwide damage, at least in 25m. So...as well as WW being buffed. So maybe BrM? They're certainly overshadowed and there are less tank spots available for their utility to make itself worthwhile, however I'm not sure they're cons are worse than their positives. IMO, if a guild is pressuring you to switch then that guild doesn't really know what they're doing.

    Many of the H25m guilds either leveled or recruited MW monks for raiding, they were extremely powerful for the majority of this tier before being nerfed into being slightly ahead on throughput with the only utility being personal survivability.
    That's 5.2 though. Right now its a bit of a different situation. It will be a lot better when the 5.2 buffs roll in, but I'm just wondering if the class would have been better off if we just had these buffs in the first place. Like no stun protection for BrMs and WWs was a pretty big oversight. Not to mention the nuclear nerf that MWs suffered in 5.1, which I understood, but definitely hurt a lot of raiding MWs who lost their raid spot or were forced to reroll. Again, the pain of a new class trying to assert its place.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    It appears that there's significant population issues in both PvE and PvP with the class. I barely see any Monks at level 90, and clearly the population was low enough in PvP for Blizzard to try to buff them in 5.2. I'd also be lying if I said that I haven't run across a few Monk friends who are having issues getting into guilds as tanks, DPS, and healers because of our bad reputation.

    Do you guys feel that Blizzard should have just implemented the class in an OP form and kept them OP for a few patches until the general population became used to them (ala Death Knights)?
    Death Knights were originally OP because blizzard intended them to be a "hero class", an idea they later abandoned. Monks were never supposed to be any more or less powerful than any other class.

  9. #9
    If a raiding MW was good at their class then they are still worth a raid spot. Only if you had just hit 90 and were trying to start raiding would I say it made MW "lose a raid spot".

  10. #10
    No thank you. More happy with some small adjustments here and there for tanking than stupid rollercoaster of patchnotes and changes for healing for example.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    The low population is also due to the fact that monks level from 1 rather than 55 so it's a distinct time investment; in addition this expac isn't nearly as alt-friendly as Cata.
    Thats not really an argument tho. Besides that it takes barely any time to get 1-55 you spend a significant amount of time with an exp buff as monk.
    And i am not sure we talk about alts here.
    The biggest problem i guess is that it was kinda easier to give up your main for a DK i guess. You only played Classic and TBC at max.
    Now many have Classic, TBC, WotlK and Cata on their main. Even harder to get them off.
    It wasnt exactly easy for me to switch main too since i had my Warrior since Classic and if Blizzard hadnt screwed up the rage system for me i would have never switched probably (I am glad i did)

    I agree thats no reason to make a class op.
    But...it all playes together.

    - You have a rather high skill cap on tanks compared to others
    - No clear stat prio for tanks that people can mindlessly follow
    - Playing healer needs a bit more then mindlessly spamming either your mana friendly heal or your big one and having less helpful raid cd compared to other healers.
    - As DPS having no cleave as melee is a turn off and somehow many seem to think even single target you are too far behind (which really isnt the case and the cleave finally gets adressed)

    Take that together with peoples emotional bound to their old mains and you have a pretty good picture why we dont see too many monks.
    I spend a lot of time in LfD before i ever saw my first other monk and still seeing a monk is rather rare (even when iam on my dk since the lfd tool tries to avoid too many similar armor classes)

  12. #12
    I think it would be a good idea to make a new class op so that the maximum of people start to play them, then nerf them back to normal in a patch or two. Look at DK's they were more of a success than monks. Rerolling might be a bit less scary if the new class is op, if the new class is just like the rest of us in terms of pvp/pve there will be alot less people attracted to even try it at level cap. I think the designers saw this and that is why they are buffing them now, i hope it's not too late. I would like to see more monks atleast in pvp!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Thopp View Post
    I think it would be a good idea to make a new class op so that the maximum of people start to play them, then nerf them back to normal in a patch or two. Look at DK's they were more of a success than monks. Rerolling might be a bit less scary if the new class is op, if the new class is just like the rest of us in terms of pvp/pve there will be alot less people attracted to even try it at level cap. I think the designers saw this and that is why they are buffing them now, i hope it's not too late. I would like to see more monks atleast in pvp!
    No! I like being the only monk in bgs/arena! I get so much joy watching a full malv warr blow all of his cds, and kill himself with touch of karma!

  14. #14
    Over 9000! apepi's Avatar
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    Eh monks are not bad, I am doing finish in pvp. We are OP ti;; blizzard nerfed our mana. I think the monk class does not feel very structured. We miss that thing that makes our class our class. Like druid have shapeshift shamans have totems, we really do not have something that makes up very special. It has no feel, and blizzard changing how it is played so much does not help that.
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  15. #15
    The types of people who would care about a class being OP are also the types of people who would immediately re-roll upon an OP class' inevitable nerf. Being OP doesn't make a class popular (with the right crowd); being fun, unique, and interesting do.

    Now of course, I've just implied that Monks are boring. Not in the slightest! There is of course, the other issue that prevents people trying out new classes: MoP isn't very alt friendly. There's a ridiculous amount of stuff to do on a single character, there's just no time for alts or trying out the new class. Some people have managed it, but I've yet to see anyone play a Monk as an alt at 90 on a regular basis. Mostly they level the Monk, slowly (because they need to keep focusing on the main), then switch back to the main. The only people who really play Monk on a regular basis are those who have switched mains completely.

    Of course there are going to be exceptions to this, but I'd be willing to bet this is what the majority are like when it comes to Monks. So y'know: Monk numbers will come up slowly as people finish up with their mains and get more time to level alts. More people will switch mains as we go along, and eventually Monk numbers will be in a healthy spot. It'll take a bit of time though, but it's nothing to really worry about I think.

  16. #16
    I think its better to have teh class grow over time instead of the DK-surge that we had it wotlk were 50% of the ppl playing wow played a DK.

    They might have taken abit too long to buff it up, but I think this is better than the DK style.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumbfoundead View Post
    Overpowered no. Easier to switch to from your main yeah.
    The change of achievement points and mounts to become accout-wide helped a lot with respect to switching mains, but when considering those unique soulbound items you had on your main it sucks to not have them on your monk but they can be farmed again and it's part of the game. Makes the character a bit more special. :P

    The implementation was fine.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    If your friends are having trouble getting into guilds because of monks having a "bad reputation" then the guilds they're applying to are not worth it.

    The low population is also due to the fact that monks level from 1 rather than 55 so it's a distinct time investment; in addition this expac isn't nearly as alt-friendly as Cata.

    Basically - no, there's absolutely no reason to have another OP new class.
    If they didn't get in a guild then it's probably because they aren't fit for it. People always come up with excuses when they don't get accepted.

    Ofc this could be the rare case of a fail guild, but it would surprise me.

    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Eh monks are not bad, I am doing finish in pvp. We are OP ti;; blizzard nerfed our mana. I think the monk class does not feel very structured. We miss that thing that makes our class our class. Like druid have shapeshift shamans have totems, we really do not have something that makes up very special. It has no feel, and blizzard changing how it is played so much does not help that.
    Because monks get healing ability and utitily that was "stolen" from other classes and it just got mashed up in 1 class...I'm not saying that it's a bad thing but to complain that you get the best of everything seems to unfair.
    Last edited by Sarac; 2013-01-28 at 12:33 PM.

  19. #19
    Field Marshal Cathaia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I barely see any Monks at level 90
    I kind of wish I was playing on your server then. On the realm I am on it seriously feels like everyone has a Monk alt at 90 by now. When I happen to do dailies, literally all I see is Pandaren Monks.
    I am really getting too old for this.

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cathaia View Post
    I kind of wish I was playing on your server then. On the realm I am on it seriously feels like everyone has a Monk alt at 90 by now. When I happen to do dailies, literally all I see is Pandaren Monks.
    This pretty much.

    And i'm really glad not having monks being super op like DKs, borking pve/pvp the entire tier.

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