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  1. #1

    Tricks to get people to attend raids.

    A bit of back story:

    I transferred servers to raid with a couple friends at the end of Cataclysm. We completed normal mode DS with some help from LFR loot, since we started so late. When it came to raiding in MoP our core group stopped showing for raids and we took some of the more social players in the guild, I say social because casual is NOT a good term for bad, neither is social but these guys/gals really only play to chat and do the occasional bg. Needless to say we aren't downing bosses, most of the social players dont really want to be there they just come because we ask.

    Downing bosses isn't an issue and most of the time the core group is on daily they just seem to be less interested in raids. I guess recruiting is the most obvious solution but on low pop servers the pool of players is pretty limited.

    So, to get to the point. Do you guys have tricks or advice for getting raiders to show up and/or on time?
    "Dear your holiness, your army is safe and sound, they're down here dying for you."
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  2. #2
    Epic! Valanna's Avatar
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    You reach a point where it's simply better to throw in the towel, especially if the project was spontaneous and a thing between friends as this was by the sounds of it. They seldomly end up successfully, because even if you may be fond of eachother, you don't sync on a skill or ambition level, by all probability. It's a tough truth, I suggest seeking out a raiding guild that suits your personal needs, and play with your friends over real id.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
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  3. #3
    recruit real raiders or join a real raiding guild. if you gota trick people to show up than you are already wasting your time

  4. #4
    If people don't want to raid then why bother to waste your time with them. Especially when there are lots of willing and able players out there that want to raid but can't because guilds insist on being buddy clubs rather than "club sports".

  5. #5
    Ya, I've kind of accepted that transferring was a mistake. I was just hoping for a solution that didn't involved switching guilds.
    "Dear your holiness, your army is safe and sound, they're down here dying for you."
    Bayside is a cult.

  6. #6
    There is one.. merge with another guild. It works, sometimes.

    Or team up with another guild in same situation.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Brash View Post
    Do you guys have tricks or advice for getting raiders to show up and/or on time?
    There are no tricks that will fix this. The only way to fix it is to ask Blizzard to provide a raiding game that people actually want to play. It's not motivating to show up on schedule to wipe on content you've already seen dozens of times in LFR. Blizzard needs to fix their game or pretty soon there will be nothing left of raiding in WoW.

  8. #8
    Field Marshal Algot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martoshi View Post
    There are no tricks that will fix this. The only way to fix it is to ask Blizzard to provide a raiding game that people actually want to play. It's not motivating to show up on schedule to wipe on content you've already seen dozens of times in LFR. Blizzard needs to fix their game or pretty soon there will be nothing left of raiding in WoW.
    The problem doesn't lie with Blizzard or the 'raiding game'.

    Try to recruit more people. Running a low end raiding guild isn't very appealing in the long run, but if you can find the right people that will bite through no matter what, you are home.

    Find out why people aren't showing up. Do you yell at people for messing up? Do you give up without any progress and get absolutely nothing done?

    Fix what's broken and get new loyal members. There are plenty of good, loyal players out there searching for a nice atmosphere.

    (Speaking from own experience).

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brash View Post
    A bit of back story:

    I transferred servers to raid with a couple friends at the end of Cataclysm. We completed normal mode DS with some help from LFR loot, since we started so late. When it came to raiding in MoP our core group stopped showing for raids and we took some of the more social players in the guild, I say social because casual is NOT a good term for bad, neither is social but these guys/gals really only play to chat and do the occasional bg. Needless to say we aren't downing bosses, most of the social players dont really want to be there they just come because we ask.

    Downing bosses isn't an issue and most of the time the core group is on daily they just seem to be less interested in raids. I guess recruiting is the most obvious solution but on low pop servers the pool of players is pretty limited.

    So, to get to the point. Do you guys have tricks or advice for getting raiders to show up and/or on time?
    Sometimes people just get burnt out. I was in a guild before that went from 25 heroics to 10 heroics to 10 normals to being behind on even 10 normal progression just because players got burnt out and we got left with a few good ones and the rest were B team.

    Nothing you can do to spike a players interest in raiding again if they are burnt out. Only time can fix that. As others have suggested, you either need to recruit new blood, merge with a guild in a similar situation(have seen this work and fail, so do your research into the players), or just gtfo while you can and find a new home.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Algot View Post
    The problem doesn't lie with Blizzard or the 'raiding game'.
    Yes it does. If the raiding was exciting and fulfilling, people would be lining up for the raid spots.

    Try to recruit more people. Running a low end raiding guild isn't very appealing in the long run, but if you can find the right people that will bite through no matter what, you are home.

    Find out why people aren't showing up. Do you yell at people for messing up? Do you give up without any progress and get absolutely nothing done?

    Fix what's broken and get new loyal members. There are plenty of good, loyal players out there searching for a nice atmosphere.
    Thanks for the tip. I, and the other officers, spent most of Cata fighting to maintain a roster. And it wasn't a low end raiding guild, it was a guild with roots going back to vanilla that had cleared almost all raid content Blizzard had released. The reality of running a good guild is that there will be churn. People grow up, their priorities change, they get bored, they get jobs, etc. etc. There is no such thing as "finding the right people" that will stick around forever. The lifeblood of a guild is constant recruitment to counter the natural drain.

    In Cata the drain became a flood and the quality and quantity of recruitment pool crashed. And it wasn't just my guild. It was every single 25 man raiding guild on my server. All of which failed. Every single one. Even the one that started in Everquest and had yearly meetings. It's not like all of us suddenly forgot how to run a guild, many of us had done it for a better part of a decade. The cold harsh reality is that the current raiding model and content does not motivate that kinds of people that are needed for high quality raiding. All that's really left in WoW is 10 man "raiding" with guilds that are lucky to survive a single tier, only to reform in another combination and fail the next tier.

    (Speaking from own experience).
    I do not believe that for one second. What you're describing is just too far from reality.

  11. #11
    Having a raid that is fun to run in and kills bosses has always worked for me. If you are to the point where you feel you need to trick ppl into raiding then you are running with the wrong ppl.
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  12. #12
    Pit Lord IRunSoFarAway's Avatar
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    There really isn't a trick, if people want to show up they will. Firstly look at why people might not be showing up, are they wanting more from the raids rather than the typical tuesday farmfest? Maybe they want to try Heroic stuff? Maybe they're just burnt out or bored, ask them, not us.
    I'm mean because you're stupid.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Brash View Post
    A bit of back story:

    I transferred servers to raid with a couple friends at the end of Cataclysm. We completed normal mode DS with some help from LFR loot, since we started so late. When it came to raiding in MoP our core group stopped showing for raids and we took some of the more social players in the guild, I say social because casual is NOT a good term for bad, neither is social but these guys/gals really only play to chat and do the occasional bg. Needless to say we aren't downing bosses, most of the social players dont really want to be there they just come because we ask.

    Downing bosses isn't an issue and most of the time the core group is on daily they just seem to be less interested in raids. I guess recruiting is the most obvious solution but on low pop servers the pool of players is pretty limited.

    So, to get to the point. Do you guys have tricks or advice for getting raiders to show up and/or on time?
    I actually have a different opinion on that topic. You are obviously not a raiding guild. For many players who are looking for a guild, that is an USP. You need to find and define your own USP for your guild and raid. And this can be tough.

    It's not about which guild can provide the most gold, flasks or bufffood. You cannot compete when it comes to raiding success, so you have to offer something different. Something raiding guilds don't provide.
    Some examples
    - Flexible raid times
    - Humans in guilds instead of just chars

    You will definietly have players who lack in their playing quality. You have to guide an help them. Show them the right way.

    If you have players who simply just don't show up you can talk to them individually. Ask them if the actually want to raid, if yes, explain to them why it is really important to accept/decline an invite and why showing up is necessary.

    All this needs A LOT Of time and patience. If you are not willing to pay that price, just join another guild

  14. #14
    The Patient Cerunnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martoshi View Post
    Yes it does. If the raiding was exciting and fulfilling, people would be lining up for the raid spots.
    People are, just not the people you wished would line up. We have 13 people in our 10 person raiding group. 8 of these have been with the guild for more than a year raiding steady twice every week. If we lose 1 person from our group, we recruit a new one putting down strict requirements in relation to showing up. Untill we find the "right" person for the position, a few tend to fail trial due to various reasons like skill, failed attendance etc.

    Generally speaking once you have your "core" settled you only have to replace a few people once in a while as people stop playing.

    I feel your going to bit far on the "Doom-And-Gloom". It seems you look at 10 people raiding as the lame-little-brother of 25 man raiding. The fact is that the wast majority of players in this game prefer the 10 player model. Its not JUST the ease of leadership that kills 25 man, also that players seek out 10 player guilds.
    Last edited by Cerunnir; 2013-01-28 at 01:51 PM.
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  15. #15
    Dreadlord myhv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    There is one.. merge with another guild. It works, sometimes.

    Or team up with another guild in same situation.
    It never works. Unless you're annexing the leftovers from a disbanded guild, preferably without any of the officers, it will go badly. Either you don't get along and progress does not happen, then you have a separate group of people inside the guild. A guild withing a guild thing. Or if you're actually start killing bosses and things get rolling, but at the first sign of a hiccup, a bad week, or maybe just a day of wiping on a farm boss, and they'll be off, thinking that it's them who carried the guild and they can't be arsed to do so again.

    Trust me, I'm speaking from experience. It's an alluring idea, an easy solution to just merge two crippled guilds, but it just never works.

    Coming back to OP, just never rely on friends when it comes to raids. I know this sounds harsh and maybe even elitist, but once again, it's just what happens. And by friends I don't mean the ones you made in the guild, that's fine and you should be relying on them the most, but I mean the people from outside the guild. Either IRL friends, or someone you met in your old guild and then joined a different guild together.

    It's a simple truth: if you want to kill bosses, friendship has to come second. IF you're just a raider, looking for a guild, don't expect them to take the whole package, you're applying as a raider, not a social group. If you're an officer or a GM, be wary of such packages, they tend to stick together... And leave together. And usually they are not all good players. Really, the only scenario that can happen, is if one of you is the leader. But then you run in to the problems you have, i.e. having to deal with unreliable players. They are friends with you, so they think they'll get proffered treatment. And if you want to kill anything, you can't afford that.

    And regarding the getting people to raid, well if they don't want to, you REALLY do not want to force them, it'll just make things worse. The only thing that's worse than a raid that can't kill anything is a raid that does not even want to be there. It's even worse on low pop servers, recruiting is near impossible. So if things are falling apart, joining an already raiding guild is really the only way.
    Ashes to ashes, fade and rust, your mind be broken, your body to dust

  16. #16
    Tell them they will be replaced/kicked if they can't comply. If you are not a social guild, and those raiders dedicated themselves to the core group, they are breaking the rules.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  17. #17
    We have a casual guild. We used to raid in communities, but after the Cata changes we started our own 10 men group in Cata.

    I find that a lot of the art of maintaining a good raidgroup is to keep it fun and tight. Tight is well-known - encourage people to optimise, to use flasks, to have food. Appeal to new people but keep older raidmembers happy as well; it is a balance game.

    Fun means that people look forward to an evening of raiding. The evening gives progression, often loot; it is fun due to joking and a good atmosphere; cut off negative or abusive people. Get focus when tough fights happen; bossfights, sometimes trash. Replace dc-es in reasonable time; allow people to step out if real life (tm) causes trouble. Be lenient but encourage to optimise. A good raidleader/leader team is the entertainer of the evening. But if people misbehave, or when dps / healing / tanking is too low, be willing to confront, but stay reasonable. Good analysing is needed.

    Raiding is not rocket science; as long as you have a few progressive good players and the rest simply does their best, you'd be surprised how well you can do.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerunnir View Post
    I feel your going to bit far on the "Doom-And-Gloom". It seems you look at 10 people raiding as the lame-little-brother of 25 man raiding. The fact is that the wast majority of players in this game prefer the 10 player model. Its not JUST the ease of leadership that kills 25 man, also that players seek out 10 player guilds.
    The Cata raid model killed every single 25 man guild on my server. Over a dozen of them, with histories going back to Everquest. If that's not worthy of "Doom-And-Gloom", then what is? And yes, players prefer 10 player model, that's what I've been saying. Not because they feel particularly strongly about wanting to raid with 9 other people, but because 10 player version gives the faster and easier path to rewards with less effort.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Martoshi View Post
    The Cata raid model killed every single 25 man guild on my server. Over a dozen of them, with histories going back to Everquest. If that's not worthy of "Doom-And-Gloom", then what is? And yes, players prefer 10 player model, that's what I've been saying. Not because they feel particularly strongly about wanting to raid with 9 other people, but because 10 player version gives the faster and easier path to rewards with less effort.
    If people just want the fastest and easiest way to rewards they wouldnt even bother with raiding. They'd q for LFR and call it a day.

    People who want to raid DO line up for raid spots, the people he's "forcing to come" are people he admitted are bad at the game and log on just to chat. That's not Blizzards fault, those are people who enjoy a different aspect of the game.

    Also on my server the top guilds in wrath were 25, the top guilds in cata were 25 and the top guilds in MOP are 25, all the same guilds. Anecdotal evidence is great, don't ya think?

  20. #20
    Field Marshal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martoshi View Post
    Yes it does. If the raiding was exciting and fulfilling, people would be lining up for the raid spots.



    Thanks for the tip. I, and the other officers, spent most of Cata fighting to maintain a roster. And it wasn't a low end raiding guild, it was a guild with roots going back to vanilla that had cleared almost all raid content Blizzard had released. The reality of running a good guild is that there will be churn. People grow up, their priorities change, they get bored, they get jobs, etc. etc. There is no such thing as "finding the right people" that will stick around forever. The lifeblood of a guild is constant recruitment to counter the natural drain.

    In Cata the drain became a flood and the quality and quantity of recruitment pool crashed. And it wasn't just my guild. It was every single 25 man raiding guild on my server. All of which failed. Every single one. Even the one that started in Everquest and had yearly meetings. It's not like all of us suddenly forgot how to run a guild, many of us had done it for a better part of a decade. The cold harsh reality is that the current raiding model and content does not motivate that kinds of people that are needed for high quality raiding. All that's really left in WoW is 10 man "raiding" with guilds that are lucky to survive a single tier, only to reform in another combination and fail the next tier.



    I do not believe that for one second. What you're describing is just too far from reality.
    You are one seriously depressing guy, or someone must've screwed you over pretty good. Don't give us your shitty attitude just because you're butthurt -_- He's asking for advice, and all you come up with is blizzard-bashing. If you don't like LFR, don't do it (omgomg, I need lewts!)
    If you're as good a raider as you seem to be, you'd be done with heroics before the lfr is even released.

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